The 'b' word

[Deckard]

How do the women on this board feel about the word 'bitch' to describe a particularly disagreeable woman? I'm not trying to be provocative here, but several times I've been on the verge of wanting to refer to Hillary in a similarly demeaning way, but stopped short because the choice seems to be between words designed to be aimed at men (asshole, knob, bastard... ), or words that I presume would offend many women in general (bitch, or variations of the word whore).

Before I go further, I know this isn't a big issue. I'm not trying to defend the use of bad language or personal insults. It's not big and it's not clever. But IsiliRunite's use of the word bitch in relation to Hillary reminded me of the dilemma. Most of the harsh insults happen to be gender-specific to men, and considered non-sexist, whereas the only ones that seem to exist for women appear to be considered more demeaning and off-limits (no doubt because they either suggest subserviency or prostitution). The upshot is that I keep referring to Clinton by her name because she's a woman, when I probably wouldn't if her first name was Bill. Which in a way also seems a bit sexist and patronising to women.

So... not the biggest problem facing the world, and once again I'm not trying to be provocative, but just curious to know how you feel about it.

[cured]

how about this, then?

http://i29.tinypic.com/xqkf9c.jpg

[cacophony]

i dislike the use of "bitch" for female politicians and business leaders the same way i would dislike it if a racially-specific slur were used for black politicians and business leaders. that's what i expect of rational minded people, to evaluate if it would fly if you used the 'n' word. if 'n' wouldn't fly, why should any similar descriptor be okay?

basically i dislike any slur that picks on a specific aspect of a person's statistical information like gender or race or weight, for example. you could argue that some of insults people levy at male politicians are masculine in nature, but i would argue that many of the masculine terms we use in our culture tend to be "neutral" in perception. like how it's neutral to use "he" in a hypothetical description but it would become distinctly feminine if you used "she" in the same description.

interestingly, though, i don't have a problem with bitch as a general insult used among peers or members of the community. when it's not an authority situation where the "glass ceiling" is an issue. if it's just like some silly bitch at the grocery store who's holding up the express lane because she won't hang up her phone, i'm happy to call that silly bitch a silly bitch.

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

Originally Posted by cacophony

i'm happy to call that silly bitch a silly bitch.

As well as while driving. I use it for males too and not as a double wammy either..

[dubman]

bitch is more of a social thing anyway, and that can apply to dudes as well, but what do you call an embarassingly cynical political stumper who'll put on any face you like for a vote despite bleeding phonyness and willful ignorance and exploitation of low tactics that'll degrade an entire campaign?

it's nothing to do with her being a woman, and everything to do with her being a complete ass.

it's par for the course i suppose, she's just in an especially bad light since obama outclasses her in every way

[Deckard]

Originally Posted by dubman

it's nothing to do with her being a woman, and everything to do with her being a complete ass.

which doesn't sound right being directed at a woman... or is it just me?

Originally Posted by cacophony

some of insults people levy at male politicians are masculine in nature, but i would argue that many of the masculine terms we use in our culture tend to be "neutral" in perception. like how it's neutral to use "he" in a hypothetical description but it would become distinctly feminine if you used "she" in the same description.

I see your point. I was just struck that most of the swearing insults are distinctly either one or the other, gender-specific to men or to women, and a clear majority only sound right (to most people) when they're directed at men - I'm struggling to think of a word that could be equally applied to a man and a woman. But you're right about the neutrality of some of the male insults, and I'm sure it's a legacy of the belief that women were like delicate china dolls with delicate sensibilities, who'd need the smelling salts if anything as bad as the word "bottom" was uttered.

[BeautifulBurnout]

Difficult question really. For me, the word "bitch" describes a particular type of behaviour which, although stereotypically considered to be inherently female, can also be applied to men. Being "bitchy", or "bitching" about something summarises the type of behaviour I mean, i.e. spiteful comments on someone's appearance, attitude or personality, whining on in a personal and spiteful way about someone or something. But I think this is very much a British interpretation of the word, and it may have completely different connotations in other countries.

As such, I tend not to be offended by its use, unless I am the one being called a bitch. But then, knowing I can be guilty of all those things at times, I would look at whether the slur against me was justified before complaining about it.

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

Originally Posted by Deckard

the word "bottom" was uttered.

Where? where?

And BB(not a double wammy!), when the word is directed towards you simply reply, "I'll take that as a compliment".

[cacophony]

Originally Posted by jOHN rODRIGUEZ

As well as while driving. I use it for males too and not as a double wammy either..

yeah i'm pretty equal-opportunity with insults. i call men bitch and women asshole, too.

[cacophony]

i think there is a way to use the word bitch that carries an extra connotation, though, and that influences the way my opinion is structured around the use of the word.

there's a particular way of emphasizing that descriptor which doesn't imply the definition of bitch, which is an asshole of female persuasion. there's a way of using it that makes a point of saying, "an asshole, and a woman, too," as though it's like adding insult to injury. like, it would be an asshole thing, but she's a chick, so it's even worse.

my father-in-law is a classic texas good old boy and although he's a wonderful person, he's definitely ingrained with some of the unconscious sexist viewpoints. like a woman CEO, in his eyes, is always the BIC (bitch in charge). if it's a male CEO he doesn't even flutter an eyelash or comment. but as soon as it's a woman suddenly it's something to be remarked on and the BIC label uses bitch to specifically gawk at the fact that it's a woman doing a man's job.

when he calls hillary clinton a bitch, which he does liberally (the only thing he does liberally, as a staunch texas republican) it's always used as a modifier to describe the atrocities he's complaining about. she's not just a bad politician, she's a BITCH bad politician. the implication being that you can't overlook the detail that she's female. again, there's no modifier on the male bad politician.

it's in that kind of usage that i have a problem with the word. among my peers, in whom i see far less ingrained and presumed gender distinctions, bitch doesn't mean much.

unless it's the urban/black community, in which case bitch is especially insulting because it absolutely implies a weakness and subservience. there, i got all the way to last paragraph before saying something controversial and then slipped it in at the end.