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Old 01-15-2011, 02:55 PM
human151
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 36
Re: Dutch on verge of getting most right wing government in the EU, in dutch history
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deckard View Post
So where exactly are these "no go zones" for non-Muslims? Which streets? After all, the Bishop of Rochester never managed to back up that remark with anything resembling evidence. Three years on and still nothing. Certainly there are some areas that have undergone an extraordinary transformation and are now dominated by people of Pakistani and Bangladeshi origin, dress, culture and worship - but for him to speak about "no go zones" for non-Muslims was just inflammatory rhetoric - and it's sad to see people repeating it unquestioningly.

Its nice to be back having intelligent debate with you all. I've known many of you for a long time. Its like meeting old friends, nevermind the fact that we don't actually know each other ;-).

back to point.

http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2006...ones-of-france

"Mar. 16, 2008 update: John Cornwell, a leading historian and commentator on religion, is generally skeptical of Nazir-Ali's no-go areas but finds that if anyplace fits the profile, it's Bury Park in Luton:
Luton, like other enclaves, has experienced a spate of incidents that look all too like attempts to make Bury Park a no-go area to non-Muslims. Between November of last year and last month there were 18 attacks – all registered by the police – on five non-Muslim homes in the area. One couple, Mr and Mrs Harrop, white residents in their eighties, have had bricks hurled through their windows. The home of Mrs Palmer, a widow of West Indian origin, aged 70, has been attacked four times; on one occasion a metal beer keg crashed through her bay window while she was watching TV."


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meanwhile in france:


http://sig.ville.gouv.fr/Atlas/ZUS/



They go by the euphemistic term Zones Urbaines Sensibles, or Sensitive Urban Zones, with the even more antiseptic acronym ZUS, and there are 751 of them as of last count. They are convienently listed on one long webpage, complete with street demarcations and map delineations.
What are they? Those places in France that the French state does not control. They range from two zones in the medieval town of Carcassone to twelve in the heavily Muslim town of Marseilles, with hardly a town in France lacking in its ZUS. The ZUS came into existence in late 1996 and according to a 2004 estimate, nearly 5 million people live in them.


Le décret n°96-1156 du 26 décembre 1996 fixe la liste de 750 Zones urbaines sensibles (Zus). Le décret n°2000- 796 du 24 août 2000 ajoute le quartier «Nouveau Mons» de Mons-en-Baroeul à la liste des Zus et le décret n°2001-707 du 31 juillet 2001 modifie le périmètre de la Zus de Grigny (91).

Les décrets n° 96-1157 et n° 96-1158 du 26 décembre 1996 fixent la liste des 416 Zones de redynamisation urbaine (ZRU) parmi les 751 Zones urbaines sensibles (396 en France métropolitaine, 20 dans les départements d’outre-mer).


Translated:




Decree No. 96-1156 of 26 December 1996 fixes the list of 750 sensitive urban zones (ZUS). Decree No. 2000 - 796 of 24 August 2000 the district added "New Mons» Mons-en-Baroeul to the list of Zus and Decree No. 2001-707 of 31 July 2001 amends the scope of Zus Grigny (91).







Decrees No. 96-1157 and No. 96-1158 of 26 December 1996 set list of the 416 urban renewal areas (ZRU) among the 751 urban areas susceptible (396 in France, 20 in the overseas departments ).


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Does it really matter what people wear? No it doesent, people are free to wear what ever they please. But when the clothing is specific to a culture and or religion there is a problem. Its almost as if these people are say "look at me I'm a muslim". Most other people dont go around advertising and differentiating themselves based on religion.



The problem is the number of immigrants. if the number is too large then people feel they do not have to assimilate themselves into the established culture. If the number were to continue to grow then what was once an established culture will become the inferior culture. Imagine if in 100 years, at the current immigration level and the immigrant birthrate, the cultural values associated with the muslim religion were the prevalent values. What then? You want to tell me that this does not alarm you waht so ever?



Do you think that muslims would not try to impose their culture on others? Do you think that a nation dominated by the muslim cultural mindset would allow a group such a Underworld to exist and perform as they do?


I believe that what is happening is Netherlands is just an attempt to get a situation under control. There are millions of people who feel that they are losing their cultural identity, and maybe unlike some of you, they want to keep their cultural identity as it is. I believe that if many of these immigrants were to at least try to adopt some of the culture of their new home then this would not be an issue, but that is not happening. I also believe that for the large majority of the people who support ideas such as wilders, the issue is not about race, its about culture.



I hope I am making sense, I have never been the most eloquent writer...;-)



I hope I am making sense
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