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Old 10-18-2010, 11:05 AM
lloyd
bungalow
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Weert, Holland
Posts: 1,058
Re: Dutch on verge of getting most right wing government in the EU, in dutch history
I said your perception of the truth in the .eu is false. And I will continue to say that.
The practice here in Holland is that all industrial produced veal is slaughtered under such conditions that it can be sold as kosher or halal. It's a fact, not a anti jewish tought I did come up with while wearing a brown shirt marching up and down the street.
I don't care what is save or not, I hate live animals on my plate. They have to be killed and if that is done under the watchfull eye of the Goth of tingaling I don't give a flying fart. It has to lay still in my pan.
While there was lots of problems with 'bad' meat on our markets we got laws who and where animals could be slaughtered and who is to controle what goes into the market.
Hormone treated cows were a commen sight here in the south of .nl and in Belgium. A whole maffia was controlling the meat industry. Murders were commited over this. It's good we got laws to regulate slaughter. (still no religious reasons, see?)
Now... because the dutch are always in for profit, in our slaughterhouses, ALL veal is first sedated with a blast of air. NOT A GUN Not a metal pin through the brain. Then it is processed and this can be done according to islamic, dabh, rules or jewish, shechita, rules. Everybody gets their veal the way they want it here in Holland. How is that anti religious? Where do I or any other person make this anti-semitic? Ignorance on your side.
While in the 70/80's (and it still happens very sporadically) there were cases of sheep/lamb slaughtering on little balconies of flats, in sheds or in the woods etc, by people who didn't think they could get their animal processed by their standards, animal rights people asked our government to stop this. Of course people who hate other people for their religion took this with both hands to spread their hate.
Nowdays you buy a sheep or lamb (with a known history) of a farmer and can have it processed at organised and (health)controlled temporairy slaughterhouses or special days IN official slaughterhouses during festivities. Yes your trailer can be checked at roadworthiness, if there's water for the animals, being asked how long your journey will be with the animals....
So.... tell me what is banned since 1930's by our supposed Nazi goverment?
There are tons of Kosher or Halal shops and butchers in Holland. Even in my tiny town (< 5000 people) there was a Halal food shop years before there was a pizza/kebab restaurant, still no MacDonalds or Subway or Starbucks here.
What is banned I ask you again? You stated that it was banned..

Nothing wrong with all this I think? Nanny state... well looking away when health and ethics are treathend is stupid too. How it is regulated nowdays was reached with all involved, not pressed upon the people who in the 70s weren't aware or able of the possiblity of getting the right meat. It did grow out of need. And is within Dutch laws.
Bloodthirsty people who see a hobby in killing whales or elephants in their own kitchen at industrial level while running around naked shouting curses at the goth of Ob-La-Di are to pity, I give you that. <sarcasm>

Of the fragmented news of ALL european countries you cherrypick you can't form an idea of what goes on here. Yes there is and was and always will be anti semitic and anti islamic and, which you forgot to talk about, anti christian shit going on.
In my liberal country, most people lead THEIR lives. There are people who fully follow rules of their believes, but that is a minority. Also everybody is free here, feminism set women (more) free. Some rules in peoples believes collide with our liberal laws/rules/habbits and we vent that. And will continue to do so. Nothing wrong with that I hope?
We think that strict cultural or religious rules prohibiting people from exploring their own possibilities in this world is wrong.
This took us ages to understand and reach and it is hard for us to see that other people in this world are still under threat of health or life when or if they try to explore their personality.
Understanding the question of the banning of religious artifacts within public positions takes a whole study I think. Not only rightwingers asked to ban the burqa etc, also women-right groups did. And those are very leftwing I can tell you.
Separation of church and state is a thing 1000s of people died fighting for here in (most of) Europa. Another study worth I think. We already, in holland, have an uncontrolled level in our democratic system, being our Queen, there is no need to have any uncontrollable church involved at any level.
Yeah you can downplay all that and shout hidden racism, the almost always working easy and cheap way out of a discussion because of running out of facts and arguments due to ignorance of the real world.
Under dutch law it is forbidden to drive your car while being disguised. Has been for ages. So it already is forbidden to drive a car while wearing a burqa. Nazi law? nah, just happens to be in our lawbooks and collide with everyday 2010.
Will this stand in court? I don't think so. In the south during carnaval, 10000s of people ride their cars to and from pubs and bars wearing masks or greasepaint and aren't stopped by police for that fact.

Europa isn't full of haters. It's the few haters that get media attention (hello FOX telly) you take for 16 million dutch people.

15,5% of the people voted for Wilders because the other parties failed in their eyes.
Wilders promised pension age would stay 65 where other parties said moving up to 67. A large % of votes came from just that fact. Suprise suprise, mister wilders was willing to take 66 or 67 if that point would be the reason a goverment with his party couldn't be formed (3 parties were needed to get majority) the day after the elections. So those voters are f*cked already.
He wants 3000 extra policemen, also this got him lots of votes. Those voters will be let down when this comes to parliament because it won't happen.

Is there hate, yes. Is there ignorance towards other habbits yes, loads more then hate. Are there 99.99% of the people who 364.99 days of the year don't give a sh*t what other people do or think and just want a quite night in, no nagging wife, feed their children, etc etc. I think that's more likely. What ever religion or cultural background they have, that is everyday life.

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