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Originally Posted by dubman
i know sean is all about "call a spade a spade but only when it's undeniably a spade and not potentially a club in disguise" but i have to go with cacophony.
it's not the kind of hate that consumes someone and result in x legislation, but i think you have to have a healthy contempt for women, as religious views tend to coerce you into, to strip them of their right to do whatever the hell they want with their own body without crusty old men trying to thinly disguise their control issues over it with this sort of bullshit.
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This is exactly where I tend to part ways with many on the pro-choice side of things - and please bear in mind that I myself
am pro-choice, I just flatly disagree with assertions that this is about a woman's
"right to do whatever the hell they want with their own body". The foundation of the argument from the pro-life side of things is built on the idea of providing rights for the unborn baby, not on depriving a woman of her right to do do whatever she wants with her
own body. Clearly, the woman's body is involved in the deal, but that doesn't inherently make the position that fetuses have rights a misogynistic one.
And again, I don't agree with the pro-life stance overall, but I do think it's important to understand and acknowledge where your opponent is actually coming from in order to constructively move forward on issues. If we continue to throw around accusations like this that miss the reality, then all we're going to accomplish is more animosity as we spin off on unrelated tangents. A good analogy that's happening right now is conservatives continually accusing Obama of wanting to "surrender" in Iraq, when in fact his plan is not one of surrender at all. It's about handing control of Iraq back to Iraqis as we clearly should be doing, freeing up our troops to focus on al Qaeda, and finishing the job we started, and actually
are currently beginning to lose in Afghanistan. To constantly call it "surrender" is untrue and derails the constructive dialogue we need to be having about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubman
but also, just to prove how singular-minded this is:
any of the various procedures -- including the prescription and administration of any drug or the performance of any procedure or any other action -- that results in the termination of the life of a human being in utero between conception and natural birth, whether before or after implantation
means that masturbation is an abortion, and even more technically, millions of abortions. LOLOLOLOLOLOL.
there's a thousand things a fetus can do while it's developing. one of them is to actually turn into a cancerous tumor. sacred!
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On this, you and I completely agree. This is extremely flawed reasoning on Bush's part, and I couldn't disagree with him more.