[Strangelet]

its not like you offended me or anything. I think if you reread this thread you can see why someone might confuse your comments as arguments that conclude the limits of experience based on the premise of distaste for the music. (which would be the second kind of art criticism we talked about)

All of a sudden I don't believe in talking about art? I wouldn't even be having this discussion if that were true. No what I stressed is that *on some level* there's no point to pursue a discussion. There's parameters and limitations and a universal language to talk about art but there's no algorithm, as you said. So when you say animal collective has a pseudo-religious quality and I say I am affected in a religious manner by the music, at that point I'd like to say, ok we disagree. Unless there's anything actually specific you want to say about the music where we could come to a better understanding?

To say that their chanting is cloying and obvious as a religious expression is irrelevant unless you can find an interview where panda bear says "yeah what we're trying to do is evoke a gaia principle religious experience in the spirit of starhawk's spiral dance" The religious response is completely my own unsolicited response. Not their intention. So its not a valid criticism of their work, only my response. see where we're getting confused?

With regards to pretentiousness - ok let me be more specific in my thoughts. We talked about pretentiousness as a quality of the reliationship between artist and audience. You respond that you have to have that relationship as no artist lives in a vaccuum and yes that's true. What I was trying to say is that to thave that relationship is not pretentious. to have a certain KIND of relationship can be pretentious. IE a dishonest relationship. Dishonesty is the sine qua non of a pretentious work of art. So I have to ask, how are you able to determine that ac is pretentious and do you even think they are or are you just taking exception to the idea that their audacity is sufficent enought to exclude the possibility of their being pretentious?

edit: edited for readability (sorry for all the errors).