[adam]

1) I kind of lost interest in Underworld as of AHDO, personally. It may not reflect much on the music, but on my changing tastes, but I just don't find that album terribly engaging. It is so safe...however, hearing Trim live in the Peel sessions really changed my opinion on that song (for the better), so I will happily grant that there may be more to the album than I have an interest in looking for. I've heard none of the Riverrun stuff because I don't trust any of you fanboys' opinions on it enough to want to pay for it. No offense, but you're all stupid jerks.

2) Duckie's comment was spot-on. King of Snake posted a non-comment: it didn't offer anything whatsoever to the discussion about the article, which anybody here, regardless of their education, should be able to do. That is, whether you agree with it or not, you should be able to form those thoughts into coherent statements: who the fuck, why should we care, yeah, totally, whatever statements serve no function. Duckie was calling him out on that. Duckie offered an article for discussion. He wouldn't have cared if people disagreed with it, but the response he got was the equivalent of making farting noises with your armpit, and I don't think he's out of line for pointing that out as precisely what it is.

3) The idea that Duckie should have voiced that criticism is a nicer fashion is one that I understand the reasoning behind, but that I don't wholeheartedly agree with. The problem being that this isn't real life. Years ago, I would have argued with that, and said, "Of course it's real life! How could it be anything else?" The thing is, I think, in real life, we should be as nice to each other as we can manage (with all types of qualifications that are tangental). But the thing is, here, in this artificial, world-spanning discussion forum, adopting those tactics makes the forums worthless. It is the only control mechanism we have. Unfortunately, I seem to be at the limits of my ability to articulate this idea. I'll have to think about it more.

I guess I'll make an immediate attempt to illustrate my point one other way. Imagine that we were sitting in a cafe, discussing this piece of music criticism (because we're intellectual snobs). Now, imagine somebody overheard us, and came over, and offered his two cents in the manner of "Who the fuck is this? Why the fuck should I care? Whatever, man." This is what we have, in the forums, is an artificial environment in which any one who wants to participate in a discussion feels free to do so. But if that's what they're bringing to the table, they better be prepared to be called on it. The notion you're presenting, BB, that we should just all nod our heads and stroke our chins at that outburst out of respect is really kind of odd, to me. You're objecting to Kid Duck's tone, I think, more than what he was saying, but, that fictional person in the cafe chose to walk up and participate, and chose to participate in that fashion.

I think the environment of the internet makes someone presenting their opinion in that fashion much more likely (than the equivalent cafe example), and, that precise increased likelihood in turn increases the need for an emphatic response (calling bullshit). Regardless, if this were to happen to me in a cafe, I certainly wouldn't mince words in telling someone what I thought of their contribution.

Anyway, I've argued with Duck Q myself, and his criticism of my arguments has changed the way I think about things, a bit, though it made me mad at the time, so I for one am all for it.

And, lastly, King of Snake, I'm sorry to pick on you repeatedly in this example. I'm trying to comment more on BB and Cuekie's exchange than anything you said. I think your comment wasn't useful, certainly, but there's no value in beating that dead horse.