I didn't have time to give this justice, Decks, what with jOHN's devastating retorts and all.
wowwwweeeee jOHN you are awesome. you're quite the darktrain gadfly. or horsefly. or horse's ass. let me know when I'm getting warm here.
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Originally Posted by Deckard
The difficulty as I see it though, is that if religion IS the bottom line for those opponents, if we've debunked their argument and pointed out various contradictions and absurdities, and they're left with no option but to resort to the ultimate dogma "because the Good Lord tells us so", then how on earth do we successfully argue against that?
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like i said, simply ask "who the fuck are you to know what God wants?"
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Can you give any examples of how, by assuming the language of religion, such people could be convinced, without us coming across as, well, insincere and false? Because that's the whole problem of religion isn't it? That every convincing argument to the contrary is viewed as a test of faith, rather than on its own merit - and embryonic stem cell research is a classic example of that. Religion actually represents THE obstacle to accepting any alternative position at odds with what they think they're allowed to think. I appreciate what we don't do: ridicule and sneer and denigrate. But I genuinely have no idea what we DO do other than continue to calmly make the case FOR this kind of research - in ethical and philosophical terms (perhaps that's what you meant) - while, in the background, the enormously gradual process of encouraging people to relinquish the shackles of religion and have the confidence to think for themselves continues slowly and surely with education and scientific progress.
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well said point. I guess I just wanted to point out the difference between someone like chris hedges and richard dawkins, the latter well described by dubman a while back as one who "has no lulz in his heart" Its really easy to not come across as insincere. you genuinely assume the posibility there is a God, even a judeo christian God, then go from there. It helps me not punch some of my family members in the face when they tell me gays shouldn't be allowed to marry. And I suppose it keeps me from getting punched in the face when I resist calling them brainless fools.