Re: Dutch on verge of getting most right wing government in the EU, in dutch history
 

Its suspicious that the conference is munich fell on the same day as the EDL protests? THat was the reason for his speech.

this clip shows what a UK muslim wants to happen in the UK. What do you think about what he says?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne7z-_RXWeA&NR=1

Re: Dutch on verge of getting most right wing government in the EU, in dutch history
 

This was on TV tonight: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...Dangerous_Man/

Re: Dutch on verge of getting most right wing government in the EU, in dutch history
 

No, it shows what an extremist UK Muslim wants to happen in the UK.

What you wrote is as misleading as quoting Pat Robertson and then saying "this clip shows what an American man wants to happen in the US." Yes technically it does - but it's disgustingly specious.

Hey look, here's an article that shows what a UK muslim thinks about what your extremist UK muslim wants to happen in the UK...

Please don't listen to Anjem Choudary

How many Muslims do you actually know?

I think what he says is in a whole sphere to allowing people to merely dress, dance, eat, sing, etc how they want. And if you've been reading my other posts in this thread, you'll know exactly what I think about what Choudary has to say.

Choudary is far from representative of UK Muslims. Choudary probably isn't even representative of Egyptian Muslims or Turkish Muslims or Indonesian Muslims or Jordanian Muslims or even (gasp) French Muslims or Dutch Muslims. So why quote him? I don't for a second deny the problem of Islamic extremism. But why are you always conflating Muslims with extremist Muslims? You really are terrible for getting sucked into the propaganda of hate and division - propaganda that (from both sides) relies for its effectiveness on people with a weakness for succumbing to tribal prejudices like this.

Anjem Choudary insists on a clash of civilizations.
The English Defence League insist on a clash of civilizations.
Coincidence?

The rest of us - the majority of decent Muslims and non-Muslims who are living alongside each other quite happily with liberalism, secularism and democracy - just wish extremist Muslims like Choudary and extremist anti-Muslim groups like the EDL would go get an island together and have their gddamned clash of civilizations til their hearts' content, leaving the rest of us in peace. Seriously, we can get along just fine. I wish the simple-minded tribal-headed idiots on BOTH sides would just bugger off.

Re: Dutch on verge of getting most right wing government in the EU, in dutch history
 

im unable to watch it...bloody hell

Re: Dutch on verge of getting most right wing government in the EU, in dutch history
 

you act as if Anjem Choudary is some fringe muslim. He is not. He is mainstream enough to have media outlets interviewing him. He was even on CNN.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ko0qQ...eature=related

very funny to see Fareeds reaction to him...lol

"speaking to you is like speaking to a pure marxist" Nice one Fareeed.

Of course I cant tell you how many muslims follow his views, but there are enough to make it a probelm. How many did it take for 7/7? A dozen radicals caused all those deaths. SO it does not take many followers of his views to cause a problem.

I also cat tell you how many people are followers of EDL. I had never heard of the English Defense league until you mentioned them. But what I can say is that the EDL is just a reaction to the UK government allowing the English culture to get pushed aside. I believe the EDL, or something like it, will only grow the more that Governments allow more and more immigrants in to their countries.

Let me ask you a question:

In your opinion, what is the reason for allowing immigration into countries?

Does your country need more workers, or should the government just keep allowing people in because they are nice and its the nice thing to do?

Is there a point where native born people have the right to say "thats enough?"

Re: Dutch on verge of getting most right wing government in the EU, in dutch history
 

He was on CNN? Oh he must be mainstream then. He's obviously not some attention-seeking extremist at all, but rather is a decent enough representative of UK Muslims. And even if he's only representative of a small number of UK Muslims, that still justifies the conflation of Muslims and extremist Muslims doesn't it? Yes. You're quite right.

Really? And there's me writing in this thread that it takes millions to cause a problem. I feel so stupid having written that in my invisible pixels.

Please do, because it's not like you're just going to follow up with LA-LA-LA-I'M-NOT-LISTENING, is it?

To piss off the natives.

Yes of course. And it doesn't matter if they're extremists and want to kill us. We should let them in. Everyone. All 7 billion.

No. Native people must always be silent on such things. After all, it is Allah's will that by being native, native people relinquish all rights. Native men must be forced to wear a burqa - and native women must grin in a highly bearded and slightly menacing way. Or possibly vice versa, depending on what the immigrants decree.

In summary: to complain about immigration is racist, there is no problem of Islamic extremism, and democracy, liberalism and secularism can be disposed of along with the week's recycling.

Now, if you'll just process this post for me, passing it through that unique brain filter of yours, hopefully...

Re: Dutch on verge of getting most right wing government in the EU, in dutch history
 

lol. I guess this is what happens when you run out of serious counter arguments.

Re: Dutch on verge of getting most right wing government in the EU, in dutch history
 

It's what happens when I run out of patience and gradually lose the will to live.

http://i51.tinypic.com/2hoahzm.gif

Re: Dutch on verge of getting most right wing government in the EU, in dutch history
 

Ah, the actual moment of realizing that employing logic and reason with someone is futile. Frustrating as hell for you I'm sure, but it certainly makes for an entertaining read.

I've discovered a frightening group of folks here in the United States (and probably abroad as well, but I'm only referring to the Americans here) that absolutely refuse to hear any argument, no matter how well-reasoned and supported by facts, that acknowledges the glaring inappropriateness of painting all Muslims with the same brush. They simply won't accept that it's attitudes like theirs that have led to the recent rash of violence against American Muslims, vandalism against Islamic buildings in America, the wildly off base furor over the so-called "Ground Zero Mosque", and even historical events like Japanese internment camps during WWII. It's one of the more shameful trends I've ever been witness to here in the States.

Re: Dutch on verge of getting most right wing government in the EU, in dutch history
 

should be able to with a UK proxy. If not, its on UK torrent site The Box.bz http://thebox.bz/details.php?id=147875

Re: Dutch on verge of getting most right wing government in the EU, in dutch history
 

so....what is so illogical about my argument?

Is it logical to say that there are problems with segments of the muslim population? Or is it illogical to say that they are not a problem? Is it illogical to say that people should become british if they choose to move to the UK? What is the fallacy in that argument?

Is it illogical to view this clip and come to the conclusion that there are problems within the british muslim community? They are yelling "allah Ackbar" as they are chasing the London Metropolitan Police. You want to tell me that there is not problem with that?

What is it about chasing police and throwing objects at them that makes god so great? What a bunch of fucking religious retards. They imigrate to England and do not respect your laws and intimidate the police and im the one who is illogical because I say that there is a problem?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsXVv3o--ds

Re: Dutch on verge of getting most right wing government in the EU, in dutch history
 

Unfortunately, Human151, you are doing what the majority of people do. You take the actions of some members of a particular ethnic minority, religious faith or race and, using the "all trees are green - that thing over there is green, therefore it must be a tree" kind of non-logic to tar every adherent with the same brush or, worse still, determine that it is because they are members of that group that they must be the same as everyone else in that group.

You have posted a youtube link from Jan 2009. Do you understand what that was about? What was the context of the behaviour of those youths on that day? Do you know what they were doing, what the police were doing, and why they were doing it?

Let me give you a clue, from none other than our own right-wing, tea-party supporting Daily Mail:
'It's not debatable,' they bawled. My chilling encounter with Britain's jack-booted paramilitary police

Re: Dutch on verge of getting most right wing government in the EU, in dutch history
 

Now to come to the EDL.

They are no more the voice of public opinion in the UK than you or I am. Their key membership is made up of a combination of a group of racist football hooligans who have grouped together under the name of Casuals United. They are led by a bloke who goes under the pseudonym of Tommy Robinson, but is, in fact, Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, a former member of a neo-nazi racist party called the BNP (and, frankly, a bit of a knob-end).

The law no longer allows people to be openly racist in the UK, but it still allows them to make inflammatory - and defamatory - statements about people according to their religion, so it is an ideal way of stirring up racial hatred, which is what these numpties do.

Re: Dutch on verge of getting most right wing government in the EU, in dutch history
 

No.

No.

What's illogical - or at least unreasonable - is everything else you've written. The frantic posting of links, for example...

Frankly it comes across as a bit unhinged, because:

(a) none of us denies that Islamic extremism is currently a big problem (and more widespread than Jewish or Christian extremism)
(b) none of us denies that this needs to be dealt with
(c) none of us denies that immigrants should adapt to a country's laws.

So why are you continuing to post these links? Do you think we're in denial about the problem? We are not. The point is they are not the logical endpoint of allowing a Muslim immigrant to dress in a sari.

Re: Dutch on verge of getting most right wing government in the EU, in dutch history
 

Btw, what's also illogical - or unreasonable - are statements such as...

and

Tell these things to our country's Muslim soldiers deployed on the front line in Afghanistan. Soldiers like Pte Shehab El-Din Ahmed El-Miniaw:

"My home is the UK. As a Muslim, that's the place I'd happily die for and kill for. That's the same way it's going to remain until my dying day. My entire soul belongs to the UK and I'm more than proud to fight for this country."

I doubt he thinks "the muslim religion is the polar opposite to liberalism" or that he "can't practice [his] religion and still assimilate to the larger culture". I'm sure he has absolutely no problem in "considering himself British" - and Muslim.

Or are you going to take the EDL line and claim that he's not a real Muslim? (a line, incidentally, also taken by extremist and more conservative Muslims.)

Perhaps you will try to defend yourself by reminding us that you never said all Muslims are extremist. True. You haven't been that crass. But in that case, your above statements are therefore baloney, are they not?

Perhaps you will point out all the bloodthirsty parts of the Qu'ran prove your point. But they do no such thing if there are a majority of Muslims who reject/ignore/re-interpret them, just as a majority of Jews reject/ignore/re-interpret the bloodthirsty parts of the Torah.

Perhaps at this point you will remind us that there are more Muslim extremists/Islamic literalists than Jewish or Christian. But I'll remind you that it doesn't matter to the argument - if the majority integrate just fine, then how does that prove Islam and liberal cultures are incompatible? As should be blatantly obvious by now, not everyone agrees on a single interpretation of Islam (though of course many like to insist that only their interpretation is the correct/true/reasonable one). The fact of the matter is that the British gay Muslims taking part in Islamic weddings are just as much Muslims as a member of the LGBT Christian Association is a Christian.

Finally, just so we can clear this up...
Define "very large percentage".

Note: I don't expect you to tell me what percentage of Muslims "choose to live as if they're still in a Muslim country". I just want you to tell me what kind of percentage range you are defining as "very large". About 80-100%?

Tell me that, then we will move onto what you mean by "live as if they're still in a Muslim country"...

And this time, please - address the points I'm making and the questions I'm asking, instead of completely ignoring them each time and firing off your own questions at me.

Re: Dutch on verge of getting most right wing government in the EU, in dutch history
 

As an added point, I must say that all of the muslims i know personally are decent people (which should go without saying really).

Sounds like some people are letting what the media tell them shape their beliefs.

Re: Dutch on verge of getting most right wing government in the EU, in dutch history
 

Re: Dutch on verge of getting most right wing government in the EU, in dutch history
 

Daily Star reporter quits in protest at tabloid's 'anti-Muslim' coverage

The reporter was recently involved in stories claiming Rochdale council had spent taxypayers' money on "Muslim-only squat-hole loos". In fact, the toilets were neither paid for by the local authority or "Muslim-only".

Richard Peppiatt to proprietor, Richard Desmond:

Richard's resignation letter in full.

Well done Sir. We need more like you.

Re: Dutch on verge of getting most right wing government in the EU, in dutch history
 

Not sure what this means for the Dutch. PVV support down from 15% to 11%. Could be lazy PVV Wilders voters. http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archive..._is_set_to.php Still, good news that they dont have a majority...