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-   -   Shooting in Arizona - right to blame Palin? (https://www.borndirty.org/forums/showthread.php?t=17339)

Sean 01-10-2011 02:49 PM

Shooting in Arizona - right to blame Palin?
 
It seems like we're pretty overdue for a new thread, so here we go.

I'm sure most folks have heard about the unstable gunman who killed 6 and injured 14 when he went on a shooting rampage a few days ago. And you've probably also heard that the congresswoman he was targeting, and who he shot through the head, was also one of the congresspeople that Sarah Palin included on her map of gun sights demarking politicians she wanted to see voted out in the 2010 elections. And she of course supplemented the gun sight map with the statement that her supporters shouldn't "retreat", they should "RELOAD!".

Now, of course, many political opponents of Palin are pointing to this and claiming that she bears at least some responsibility. What does the dirty community think?

Personally, I think this is the work of an unstable individual first and foremost - and by that I mean the shooter, not Palin. Trying to affiliate him with any popular political party's ideology is uncalled for. But I do think the overall tone of rhetoric, particularly over the past few years, needs to come down a couple notches. While I don't blame the rhetoric from Palin, or Angle (who spoke of "2nd amendment remedies"), or others like them for this shooting, I do believe that it unnecessarily exacerbates things.

Thoughts?

TheBang 01-10-2011 05:07 PM

Re: Shooting in Arizona - right to blame Palin?
 
I agree that this shooting was probably simply a disturbed individual, and not directly related to Palin's rhetoric. That said, I read that Giffords' campaign office windows were shot out during that election period when Palin was targeting her. The extreme rhetoric and fear-mongering needs to stop. You're right; it doesn't help the situation, and there WILL be a day when it will be directly responsible for someone's death.

jOHN rODRIGUEZ 01-11-2011 08:59 AM

Re: Shooting in Arizona - right to blame Palin?
 
:rolleyes: (in SOOOOO many directions)


"It's all funs and games until someone gets hurt." ~ Me Mum

stimpee 01-11-2011 09:29 AM

Re: Shooting in Arizona - right to blame Palin?
 
It doesnt seem like the press or blogs are talking about gun law. Like why a ban on assault weapons like the semi-automatic handgun he had was allowed to expire in 2004 or why he was able to buy the high capacity magazines (31 cartridges!). 2nd amendment, maybe. But shit like that isnt necessary for personal defence even in the USA.

jOHN rODRIGUEZ 01-11-2011 02:14 PM

Re: Shooting in Arizona - right to blame Palin?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by stimpee (Post 148697)
It doesnt seem like the press or blogs are talking about gun law. Like why a ban on assault weapons like the semi-automatic handgun he had was allowed to expire in 2004 or why he was able to buy the high capacity magazines (31 cartridges!). 2nd amendment, maybe. But shit like that isnt necessary for personal defence even in the USA.

I've heard references to gun law in quite a few. Although, again, there were slight political jabs as who passed what, or voted against something else.

That was yesterday. Today is full blown political stands from the lefts/rights and with the central-thinking concentrating on paying tribute to the victims, as well as family and friends of the victims.

Deckard 01-13-2011 03:27 AM

Re: Shooting in Arizona - right to blame Palin?
 
As has been said... the perpetrator is obviously 100% to blame for the act itself - but that doesn't absolve others of responsibility for the wider destructive culture that may have pushed him - and may be pushing others - over the edge.

Was a political targeting like this predictable? Well, yes. Of course it was. It was as predictable as the subsequent accusations and subsequent whines of protest that we should only blame the perpetrator and not delve deeper or wider. All of it was predictable.

The fact that Giffords actually warned Palin that her use of such violent imagery would have "consequences" says it all.

Though of course it goes without saying this is a problem that goes deeper than Palin. She's merely the useful idiot who came to prominence and slid into the role of lightning rod.


[EDIT: I've deleted all the pseudo-sociology I wrote after this point. It adds nothing.]

Deckard 01-13-2011 03:57 AM

Re: Shooting in Arizona - right to blame Palin?
 
Hell. It's a lot easier just to call this an evil act and be done with it. :o

jOHN rODRIGUEZ 01-13-2011 09:42 AM

Re: Shooting in Arizona - right to blame Palin?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Deckard (Post 148716)
[EDIT: I've deleted all the pseudo-sociology I wrote after this point. It adds nothing.]

Oh c'mon, add it back in. It'd be sure start some discussion in this crypt of a forum as of late.

Deckard 01-13-2011 11:42 AM

Re: Shooting in Arizona - right to blame Palin?
 
I would if I had the time to think it through a bit more before typing jOHN. And I'm really pressed for time lately.

Essentially it was that the problem is wider than just Palin and maybe even deeper than just Fox pundits. In all honesty I was just struggling to express myself without ending up with a crass national stereotype.

Here look... here's the problem, Rush's Arizona billboard...

http://i.imgur.com/carF0.jpg

But it's not just him. Guns, targets, reload, rearm, military metaphors in the most inane of political speeches, always constant reminders of strength and hard power, even police officers swaggering around in a way that they mostly don't in my country - to an outsider this sort of thing can appear quite weird.

In all honesty I'm not sure what it all has to do with the shooting, but it's where my thought-wank was taking me before I thought better of it. I'm just grappling for explanations like everyone else.

Troy McClure 01-13-2011 09:07 PM

Re: Shooting in Arizona - right to blame Palin?
 
I'd like to write a long post about it since I've lived in Arizona all my life, and might be able to offer something personal this thread. I don't live in CD-8, which Ms. Giffords proudly represents, I live in CD-5 which was represented by a Democrat until last week. Let me gather my thoughts and see what I can type up.

That said, just knowing that yesterday Ms. Giffords opened her eyes last night when Nancy Pelosi, Kristen Gillibrand and Debbie Wasserman Schultz visited her, and today the surgeons sat her up on the hospital bed with her legs hanging over the edge is just so fantastic.

Jason


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