The beginning of the end for P2Ps/Torrent Sites?
 

Danish ISP blocks The Pirate Bay

Not sure how well this will work as if the internet has taught us anything it's that when one site is taken down another one (or two or three) will spring up somewhere else

Thoughts?

Re: The beginning of the end for P2Ps/Torrent Sites?
 

If you ask me the shutting down of OINK was like 100 times more significant than this, and all it did was push filesharing more underground. Perhaps bittorrent will go someday but P2P will not go away without some seriously invasive mesaures.

Re: The beginning of the end for P2Ps/Torrent Sites?
 

yay for opening up the market to smaller ISPs that can use this to market themselves...

Re: The beginning of the end for P2Ps/Torrent Sites?
 

I know that France have banned certain sites too, although I am not sure which ones. As you say, all this will do is to push it more and more underground, but it won't stop people doing it.

On a side note, it never ceases to amaze me how much of my tax goes to pay the policing of these things uniquely to protect the fiscal interests of big business. What about all the unsolved murders, robberies, burglaries? Oh wait. They only happen to "little" people who don't fund political parties...:mad:

Re: The beginning of the end for P2Ps/Torrent Sites?
 

I have mixed feelings about this stuff. While being able to easily share files is incredibly convenient and fun when used responsibly, it's also being abused to a level that really hurts some people. The singer who gave me my first opportunity to have a couple remixes released did so through her own start-up label. She's an established vocalist who's been featured on tracks by people like A Guy Called Gerald and Dyad10 along with others, with relative hits like last 2001's "Sugar (Sweet Thing)". But when she released her own album and singles last year, which required personal investment and sacrifice, she made no money at all because the releases were immediately made available for free on P2Ps and torrent sites by some jerk-offs. In fact, she lost money and is now probably shutting down the label as a result. On a personal level, the last time I spoke to her, she sounded pretty crushed about it, and is struggling just to make ends meet.

So it's tempting to think that shutting down these file sharing sites is just because big businesses are protecting their fiscal interests, but it's far harder on the little guy based on what I've seen - thanks to the assholes of the world who don't have the common sense or decency to realize how their illegal actions hurt the lives of others.

Re: The beginning of the end for P2Ps/Torrent Sites?
 

But without technology, your friend would never be able to record/release music anyway. Public performance and merchandise will be the only real way to make money in the future or we can go back to the time before recorded music where comissions were the way to make money.

Re: The beginning of the end for P2Ps/Torrent Sites?
 

I haven't got an issue with technology - I have an issue with selfish and thoughtless behaviour, which is exactly what stealing someone's music and making it available for free is. Not to mention the fact that theft is illegal whether you're stealing physical items from a store, or virtual items from the comfort of your own home.

And I completely disagree with your assertion that "public performance and merchandise will be the only real way to make money in the future". In fact, it's less that I disagree, and more that I believe it's literally impossible. How can you afford to tour in support of an album you can't afford to make in the first place? And how do you merchandise it if you've actually lost money just trying to get the music out there? No one's going to buy merchandise for a non-existant album. And why bother trying to make music when it's even harder now to make any kind of living at it than it was before thanks to the assholes of the world who feel it's their right to take your work and distribute it for free? As long as this mindset that "art is free, man" persists, art and artists will suffer.

I can only pursue music because I have a day job. Because despite having a few remixes officially released at this point, I haven't made a single penny off of them. Why? On one of them, I had a contract for a flat fee payment, but the label is going under thanks to people stealing the tracks, and has no money to pay as a direct result. On another, because I had a contract for a portion of profits from sales, but clearly sales don't happen when it's being passed around for free. And on the last, we'll see what happens since it's only just about to be released. But I have had to join the local musician's union, which over the past couple years has cost me a few hundred dollars. So basically, ever since I started getting professional work in the music industry, it's actually cost me money.

So how eager do you think I am to continue pursuing a career in music? And how many other amateur musicians do you think have been forced to abandon an attempt at having a career in music thanks to assholes who steal their work? People need to wake the hell up to the consequences of their actions. Sorry, but I feel very strongly about this after having seen exactly how file sharing has negatively affected truly talented and inspired artists. It stifles their talent and kills their inspiration. Well done, music fans!

Re: The beginning of the end for P2Ps/Torrent Sites?
 

Oh boy. This debate. It's like abortion and Israel - no-one ever wins.

Currently in NZ there is a bill - that will become law on Feb 27th - Section 92a - which makes ISP's liable for all copyright infringement. And ISP's must terminate internet connections of those suspected of said copyright infringement. No proof is required. No court action is required. Merely allegation.

It's being pushed by APRA, and the record labels - and it's being opposed by many - including artists.

The law is poorly written - on so many levels and ignores a new reality of digital work. One example of how it's badly written is in its very definition of an ISP - it includes any person or organisation that has a website. WTF?

Naturally it opens up a whole can of worms - and of course much controversy. Apart from the sheer insanity of the technology and man hours required to prove an allegation - why would ISP's want to disconnect their clients? It's like holding the government liable for deaths of people on state owned roads.

In NZ it's illegal, under the current law for me to buy a CD - then rip the contents of that CD onto my computer and then load it onto my iPod. The big business side of the recording industry has seen fit to make me purchase a VHS, a DVD, and now a Blu-ray of the same content. Not to mention the number of times Lucas has foisted re-interpratations of the Star Wars trilogies on us.

I love movies, I've bought plenty on VHS and now on DVD, but if I want to watch one of the movies I already own on MY portable player - I have to go out and buy (PSP) or pay to download another copy (via iTunes)- of the same thing? That's a bit shit when I'll even do the re-encoding myself to save you the work.

I have to disagree on one of your points Sean - imo - this is not an issue of theft. Theft is if I take something that belongs to you - and you no longer have it. If I torrent a copy of your remix - you still have the remix. This is an issue of fair use and who is compensated for created content. I'm all for fair use and fair compensation - but this issue of piracy isn't exactly Johnny Depp and the pirates of Barbary.

I mean - here in NZ - not only is the definition flawed - but the language is inflammatory and ridiculous. This is the pdf - that got sent out to schools by NZFACT. Can you actually read that and not chuckle at the OTT-ness of it all?

Yes - if you use P2P technology you could be exposed to pornographic material!!!! aaarrghh.... as opposed to, you know, turning on the news.

If I go to a library and borrow an author's book - read it, then put it back, am I in breach of copyright? Is the next person who borrows that book? Is the rate-payer funded library liable?

If I go and look at a painting hanging in a public gallery, decide I like it - then buy a copy of that painting as a postcard, then download a copy of that painting to use as my desktop - at which point do I break copyright? Is it when I downloaded the image using bittorrent? Or was it when I scanned the postcard into my computer? Or was it if I took out my cellphone and took a picture of the painting?

As a teacher, I will be in breach of the law in NZ when I show a youtube video, such as this. That is the BBC's content - not mine.

I have friends who've been screwed over by record labels, and have then gone on to do done damn well licensing their music - and selling it online. There's Radiohead, there's NIN, there's the Python's cleaning up - after they setup their own youtube channel.

And has been said - all it does is push filesharing further underground - another protocol or co-located host will be setup. I mean - wasn't the victory over Napster meant to save the music industry? They poured millions of dollars into that fight - and then expect us to go out and pay for Girls Aloud and yet another Hannah Montana compilation?:rolleyes:

Lawrence Lessig, the people over at Creative Commons, the EFF - there are sane people discussing this issue. IMHO - they need to be listened too.

Re: The beginning of the end for P2Ps/Torrent Sites?
 

There's no debate as far as I'm concerned. Enforce reasonable laws against the people who illegally share music files. But to pretend that stealing music from an artist hurts no one is ignorance at best, maliciousness at worst.

Chuck - what if suddenly your students stole their lessons from you for free, so there was no way for you to be paid for teaching? Would it be cool with you to hear people say "hey - the future of teaching is writing and selling books, not teaching in a classroom".

Re: The beginning of the end for P2Ps/Torrent Sites?
 

but that's traditionally how most artists have made their money. most record contracts with large labels are structured so that the artists make zilch off of record sales and unless their album goes friggin' platinum they'll never make enough off of simple record sales to recoup the cost of production. on the other hand, touring is where they make bank. performance and merchandise is where artists become financially successful. not record sales.