The Holocaust-denying Bishop
 

There's an interesting interview out with the Catholic Bishop, Richard Williamson, whose excommunication over Holocaust denial was just repealed by the Pope. It's no coincidence that his name happens to be "Dick" - the guy seriously sounds like an ignorant dick to me, trying to justify anti-semitism with quotes from scripture and such:

SPIEGEL: Your position on Judaism is consistently anti-Semitic.

Williamson: St. Paul put it this way: The Jews are beloved for the sake of Our Father, but our enemies for the sake of the gospel.

Way to go, Bishop! :rolleyes:

Re: The Holocaust-denying Bishop
 

I was pretty stunned when this happened. My understanding is that he hasn't retained his Bishop status, although I may be wrong.

I realise the Catholic Church is concerned about factionalisation, but they shouldn't be giving any kind of platform to anti-semitism. Not good. :(

Re: The Holocaust-denying Bishop
 

To deny the Holocaust is pretty stupid all around.

However, the parts on calling him anti-Semitic doesn't jive with me. Why is he called anti-Semitic when he is following what the gospels say? To say this, then all Christians are anti-Semitic- which sounds ever dumber since Jesus was a Jew! The Jews denied the Jesus was the Messiah, there is no arguing this. Therefore, when you come down to it, they are enemies to the gospel, just like Paul said.

I have serious issues with the word anti-Semitic because it is used today as a term for anyone who criticizes anything Jewish or Israeli.

As a side note, I don't believe that Christianity today is the religion taught by Jesus. Rather it is the doctrine created by Paul. Nor do I advocate what Paul says anywhere in the New Testament, as he went against all the Disciples with his thoughts and ideas. A fact which is interesting, since who would know more about what Jesus taught then the actual people who were with him while he preached. However, from the perspective of a Catholic Bishop, who uses the gospel as his code of belief, then there is no denying that Williamson is correct with his belief in this regard (not the belief of denying the Holocaust).

Re: The Holocaust-denying Bishop
 

"As a side note, I don't believe that Christianity today is the religion taught by Jesus. Rather it is the doctrine created by Paul."

Very much in agreement with that.

Re: The Holocaust-denying Bishop
 

"If I realize that I have made an error, I will apologize."

The question is, just what will it take for him to realise he's made an error?

Re: The Holocaust-denying Bishop
 

The fact that he hasn't realized his error speaks volumes... ...for his ignorance and arrogance.

Re: The Holocaust-denying Bishop
 

I agree when it comes to israel's foreign policy, or jewish americans hijacking my own country's foreign policy. I *strongly* disagree that it isn't disgustingly hateful to point to an ethnic group and claim my religion sayz you're evil. i don't know how you could be more anti semitic.

Re: The Holocaust-denying Bishop
 

their priorities are out of place. i'm not saying that less important issues aren't valid, but honestly, we need to focus on more pressing issues affecting our own species before we start fretting about canines.

Re: The Holocaust-denying Bishop
 

but in the context of this debate, holocaust denial is an anti-semitic tool...

Re: The Holocaust-denying Bishop
 

It strikes me that he's not actually "following what the gospels say" as much as he is trying to use the gospel to justify his anti-semitic views. That's why he's called anti-semitic.

I'm curious why you have a particular problem with the overuse of the charge of anti-semitism. I would say that there are many terms being overused these days - sexist, racist, homophobe - all applied to people far too freely over issues that often aren't actually rooted in sexism, racism, or homophobia. Do you feel that labels like these are over-used as well, or do you mainly just feel that way about "anti-semitism"?

Re: The Holocaust-denying Bishop
 

I want to reply to this, but I have to fly to Brussels, and will be back in a few days.

Re: The Holocaust-denying Bishop
 

nice. go get a leffe blonde on tap.

oh wait....

:D

Re: The Holocaust-denying Bishop
 

To be honest, I didn't think that he was using the gospel like you say, from just reading that article. However, now that you mentioned it can be taken to appear that way. Or we can read into it that way. If he is doing this, then I agree with you.

I have a problem with the overuse of a lot words, like you say. The particular reason for my dislike of term anti-semitic is that it is now used solely for the Jews and Israel. When in fact, the Semitic people consist of much larger category then just Jews.

And then there is another issue, that being that Jews are the only people who are classified as a race by their religion. Therefor, if one was to criticize Judaism, then are often called anti-semitic. When in reality, they may have nothing wrong with people who are Semitic. This leads into what Strangelet said:

"I *strongly* disagree that it isn't disgustingly hateful to point to an ethnic group and claim my religion sayz you're evil. i don't know how you could be more anti semitic."

If there is a religion that says such a thing, then I agree with you. However, if a religion says "because these people do x, y, z... they are evil". I have no issues with this. But we can't use this logic against Jews because, like I said, they are the only group of people who are classified as an ethnic group based upon their belief, instead of their origins.

Re: The Holocaust-denying Bishop
 

=p
someone's a smartass.

Re: The Holocaust-denying Bishop
 

That actually bugs me too.

Re: The Holocaust-denying Bishop
 

I don't have a problem with the "semitic==Jewish" thing to be honest.

The word "anti-semitism" has been firmly established in its Jewish sense for so long now - and for obvious reasons - that I'm happy to accept it as just another word having evolved to something else, if only as a dominant meaning.

IN my experience, when anyone talks about anti-Semitism and someone decides to make the point that Semitism refers to an ethnicity broader than just Jewish, for some reason it always sounds like a tactic to downplay anti-Jewish sentiment. Sometimes it becomes obvious that's exactly what it is. Other times, it's not.

On the other hand, I do completely agree with the way the charge of "anti-Semitism" (or variations thereof, like sarcastically interjecting with "it's the joooooooooz") is a pathetic, cowardly way to respond to criticism of Israel, whether it's government foreign policy or even the fact and manner of its very inception.

Sure, sexist, racist, and homophobe are also over-used, but I think few issues have that combination of being as highly charged and current as Israel/Palestine AND having something as appalling as the Holocaust underpinning it. That's what makes the charge all the more potent and frustrating, and all the more cowardly when deliberately used inappropriately to 'win' an argument.

Re: The Holocaust-denying Bishop
 

GRRREEEEEAAAAT.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...881152,00.html

I'm all po, I'm gonna be in purgatory forever.

Re: The Holocaust-denying Bishop
 

Yeah, an exception for me is "americans". I know that people from north, central, south america bristle at people from the united states monopolizing the the word for themselves. And i'm really sympathetic. Its just that they also have a really cool country name too. So they can be called things like canadians, bolivians, brazillians, etc. Are we expected to be known as united-statesians? Seriously, throw us a bone.

Re: The Holocaust-denying Bishop
 

I know you guys think i'm some scummy tin foil hat anti semite the way I occasionally carry on about the israeli agenda in american politics but just look at this crap.

http://www.wowowow.com/post/hillary-clinton-angry-jewish-israel-gaza-222225

To reemphasize, Hillary is guilty of making sure the palestinians get their aid, not of criticizing the recent war, or any of the deaths. Just getting the stupid aid to the survivors.

Janie, you talked about the parallels between the IRA and hamas. I think its a good parallel. Because the IRA had rich irish americans in new england where channeling political and financial support to the IRA, so are extremist jewish americans towards Israel, except they are a lot more powerful, coming in the form of AEI, richard perle, paul wolfowitz, david frumm, and AIPAC. And in either case, its extremely debatable whether the general irish and israeli nationals benefited, or even agreed with their american cause makers.

Re: The Holocaust-denying Bishop
 

I just read an article about this story about Clinton too. Seems kind of strange - even malicious - to be angry over the idea of getting aid to the civilian population that's suffered the effects of war.

And to bring it back to the Holocaust-denying Bishop, he's just apologized to those he may have offended - an offering that came up short in the eyes of the Vatican and pretty much everyone he's offended with his denial of gas chambers and the 6 million deaths estimate.

British Bishop Richard Williamson, who was ordered to leave Argentina and is now in his homeland, on Thursday issued a statement in which he said, "To all souls that took honest scandal from what I said, before God I apologize."

Chief Vatican spokesman Father Federico Lombardi said Williamson's statement "does not seem to respect the conditions" set forth by the Vatican on February 4, when it ordered him to "in an absolutely unequivocal and public way distance himself from his positions" regarding the Holocaust.

Williamson told Swedish television in an interview broadcast on January 21, "I believe there were no gas chambers." He said no more than 300,000 Jews perished in Nazi concentration camps, rather than the 6 million accepted by most historians.

In his statement on Thursday, Williamson said, "I can truthfully say that I regret having made such remarks, and that if I had known beforehand the full harm and hurt to which they would give rise, especially to the Church, but also to survivors and relatives of victims of injustice under the Third Reich, I would not have made them."

So he doesn't recant his statements or say that he's learned differently since he made them - just that he's sorry if his statements offended anyone. Pretty weak.

Re: The Holocaust-denying Bishop
 

I read a book of musical history recently that talked about the early 20th century. It really opened my eyes to just how ugly anti-semitism got and what horrors ensued. I mean obviously I knew about the atrocities from junior high history class. But you put it in your mind that these were just the actions of some crazy military and political leaders getting some boon from a scape goat game. Nope. When you read about the actual culture of europe (viz. music, for example) at the time, the hate gets appallingly deep and dyed in the wool.

Which is why its so important to to keep ass clowns like this guy in check.

Re: The Holocaust-denying Bishop
 

wondering what uk dirts think about this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYqig...layer_embedded


At face value, I see a lot wrong with this, and find it indicative of what I've been talking about, regarding the ridiculously hypersenstitive and overbearing influence of the jewish lobby. But then this guy does kind of seem shady ???

Re: The Holocaust-denying Bishop
 

then there's this. just search "freeman" on andrew sullivan and you'll have a whole narrative of a smear campaign against a minor government position candidate who openly criticized israel.

and from evil, vile, horrible freeman himself
so there you have it. us "anti-semites" are gaining in numbers and voice.

Re: The Holocaust-denying Bishop
 

wow. i don't know much about this galloway guy, but holy fuck this is impressive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrdFF...eature=related

Re: The Holocaust-denying Bishop
 

Impressive, yes, but I would not be shocked if nothing comes of it.

Come on, it's from 2005.

Re: The Holocaust-denying Bishop
 

George Galloway rocks. I may not agree with everything he says, but he has the cojones to take people to task, that's for sure. He ripped the US Senate Committee a new asshole that day.

BTW - is there any reason why this is on the holocaust-denying Bishop thread? Just askin' :)

Re: The Holocaust-denying Bishop
 

You cannot be serious.

Re: The Holocaust-denying Bishop
 

I kind of thought it was distasteful to start a Jewz are ruling our Asses!!! :mad::mad::mad: !!! thread, or anything that could be construed as such. But then having this conversation tie in to a holocaust denying bishop is just as unsavory, innit? feel free to move it to another thread entitled something like "Rex's desperate attempt to show its possible/necessary to criticize Israel outside of hate and racism."

Re: The Holocaust-denying Bishop
 

Soz chaps - saw the link to Galloway without reading the previous post and thought it was uniquely about Galloway's barring from Canada without making the connection.

I agree that, in general, it is really difficult to criticise Israel or, for that matter, the Jewish lobby without being accused of being anti-semitic. So we might as well keep it under the same topic heading I guess.

I think what I find quite bizarre is that it is perfectly acceptable for US, British or Canadian citizens to go and fight for the IDF with nary and eyebrow raised - like this Weinstein guy from Canada - yet any Brit/American/Canadian who went to Afghanistan in 2001 is arrested as a traitor and a terrorist. Double standards abound. Ah well.

Re: The Holocaust-denying Bishop
 

yes exactly. And as chilling as it is, and a destructive to the free market of ideas as it is, I don't think Canada's move comes from a nefarious right wing conspiracy, as much as it does from their religion of tolerance. I love Canada, but placing tolerance above critical thinking is something that unfortunately tends to happen up there.

Re: The Holocaust-denying Bishop
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkgMBqJ3deY

Galloway speaking at columbia on monday.... so, like, the very thing the canadian government deemed a threat to their national security. :rolleyes:. ending quote "its time for the united states to act in the interest of the united states."