Seems kind of slippery-slopey...
 

The war for healthiness in food is continuing. The new target is salt:

Singer Jimmy Buffett will never find his "lost shaker of salt" in New York City or any other place in the country if Mayor Michael Bloomberg has his way. The mayor is waging a war on salt and he wants food manufacturers and restaurants to join his army…or else.

...Thomas Frieden, the city's health commissioner, said he wants manufacturers and restaurants to join the war on salt voluntarily. If they don't, the city could pass legislation making it the law.

To me, this certainly seems to be a step towards confirming the fears of people who argue that the legislation of food choices is a slippery slope. I'm curious to hear how the people who have been most vocal about that being a flawed way of thinking react to this story.

Re: Seems kind of slippery-slopey...
 

Heh!

Started here too!

Delia recipes "Loaded with Salt".

There are the beginnings of a government campaign to have salt levels reduced in everything we eat, as well as TV chefs reducing what they use in their recipes.

There is even a pressure group called Consensus Action on Salt and Health ffs, with a National Salt Awareness Week!

I for one don't tend to use huge amounts of salt in cooking, but I am old enough and intelligent enough to sort that one out for myself if I feel like it without the need of the nanny state to tell me what to do.... :rolleyes:

Re: Seems kind of slippery-slopey...
 

I'm all for awareness-raising campaigns funded by public money.

Restrictions on advertising junk food to kids, and on ingredients in school dinners - bring it on. Absolutely no problem with those "incursions on liberty" for the net benefit I believe they will have.

Adults automatically become a different story, and from the quick glance I've had through that link, in this particular case I find myself agreeing with you.

Am I making these judgments arbitrarily? As I've said before, I'm perfectly happy to assess each of these things on a case-by-case basis, and weigh up what I think are the benefits versus the incursions on liberty. I personally don't feel compelled to take an ultra-liberal approach to all health and diet regulation based on the slippery slope argument, because it assumes we've taken - to date - the correct stance on every possible ingredient or chemical, legal or illegal and mustn't change anything - and I simply don't believe that.

Re: Seems kind of slippery-slopey...
 

i swear to god I can't believe this isn't an article at the onion. If I were a new yorker I'd be incensed by the condescension of it. These people won't rest until we live off three jars of wheat grass gerber baby food and report to copulsory yoga classes. i'm going to fucking spend the day glowering at the world through cigarette smoke and over cheeseburgers.

edit: that's actually me on a daily basis, but today it will mean something goddammit

Re: Seems kind of slippery-slopey...
 

This is the dumbest thing I have heard in a while.

""Salt, when its high in the diet, increases the blood pressure and high blood pressure is a major factor for heart disease and stroke," said Dr. Sonia Angell of NYC's Cardiovascular Disease Prevention Program. "

What about just breathing the NYC air? When are the going to regulate how much of it we can breathe a day because it is a health factor?

edit: Or better yet... sex raises increases the blood pressure and high blood pressure is a major factor for heart disease and stroke...

Re: Seems kind of slippery-slopey...
 

6 grams per day is considered healthy, but when grabbing some frozen ready thing, can't really watch what i'm chomping on.

Sure this'll lead to some pissing Jamie Oliver spin off show.

Re: Seems kind of slippery-slopey...
 

Or the fact that there's jet fuel additives in our chips, or just plain jet fuel in our drinking water, along with anti depressants, aspirin, and pain killers. Or mercury in our soft drinks and tuna fish, or paint thinner in our baby food.
No, lets go spend a bunch of time and money at the same breath we fire 5000 educators on salt. That way we can harrass the small businesses while letting big business continue to turn us into brain dead hairless sea monkeys.

Re: Seems kind of slippery-slopey...
 

:eek: There's really only one solution: we should all just stick to brown nutrient-rich sludge, just to be safe. (It's the future, I've heard)

Re: Seems kind of slippery-slopey...
 

Are you sure you don't mean green? :eek::p

Re: Seems kind of slippery-slopey...
 

I fully expect this to happen some day.

I really do want to hear from people who feel that the fear of a healthy food slippery slope is unfounded. I've always leaned towards the slippery slope theory on it myself, but have been somewhat on the fence - until now. It's becoming clearer and clearer that there are people in positions of power who, as they win each battle, will definitely be moving on to their next health food crusade, and then their next, and their next after that....

Re: Seems kind of slippery-slopey...
 

I say, for every minute a child spends with computer or tele = amount should be spent doing some sort of physical play. This DOES NOT include time spent doing chores & cleaning room. That's what my mom said.

I have super high-metabolism so I don't know what to say about what to eat.

Re: Seems kind of slippery-slopey...
 

Hehe, my first thought also. :)

So salt is bad now? I'll have to change my signature and sea-roaming habits, then. :(

Re: Seems kind of slippery-slopey...
 

i agree with this
i think the hyperventilating about mandatory exercise and govt. mandated intake is more for humor's sake than anything realistic.
there are people with sense, and there are people that willingly peddle what is blatantly unecessary to people who think it's normal when it isnt.
listen, i'll go for a luther burger when the time is right (and oh, it will be someday), but the widespread acceptance in restaurants that the sky's the limit on salt and butter and everything horrible for people that'll mask an otherwise unappealing and sub-par meal is soemthing i dont mind being aggressively attacked.

slippery slope arguments are the easiest thing to construct and assume a linear sequence to the horrible, awful conclusion presented. it can be valid at times, but i just find it so lazy and hard to take seriously.

Re: Seems kind of slippery-slopey...
 

Salt is fucking delicious.

The only problem is that you need to eat more and more to get the same kick, over time.

Its not that unhealthy...it just adds onto pre-exisiting unhealthiness. Like type 2 diabetes, obesity, or general lack of giving a fuck about one's body.

Re: Seems kind of slippery-slopey...
 

europe needs more salt tbqh.
nothing more frustrating than going to a McD's/BK Lounge, getting some chips, and having to salt them myself.
goddamnit.

Re: Seems kind of slippery-slopey...
 

it brings out the flavor in normally shitty food.

Re: Seems kind of slippery-slopey...
 

So then you see no validity to the observation that once a "health"-inspired law is passed, the same people move on to the next item to battle, and then the next? How exactly is making that observation and having a problem with the trend it showcases being "lazy"?

As far as I'm concerned, coercion is simply the wrong way to encourage better eating habits. Education is the way to go if you want lasting change that people won't be bitter and resentful of. Like you mentioned with the "luther burger", I try to eat pretty well, but every now and then I want to go get myself a Tommy Burger, or a Martha Stewart Dog from Pink's (that's right - the Martha Stewart Dog - trust me, it's fantastic and not what you would expect), and I don't want some asshole who decided that no one should ever eat such horribly unhealthy food stripping me of my opportunity to do it. It's not their place to tell me when I can or can't indulge in the occasional unhealthy yet delicious meal.

Where all this will end up is anyone's guess, but there's no denying that there's an active effort being made to legislate what we can and can't eat, and I don't agree with the extent it's going to one bit. It's one thing to have a Food and Drug Administration that can monitor the safe handling and preparation of food, but another entirely to legislate how much salt can be used in a recipe.

Re: Seems kind of slippery-slopey...
 

I agree. by putting one foot in front of the other and repeating the process towards another restaurant. not sure I can win a chicken or egg argument as to whether business directs culture or the other way around. I do know that culture can be changed by education, like sean said.

Re: Seems kind of slippery-slopey...
 

in a way. the observation seems sound, and it makes sense on the surface but it assumes a linear continuum that "x will lead to y will lead to z" when it's more likely that "x will lead to y will lead to 7, j, and §, making z basically a fever dream"

the thing about clumsy legislation like this is that there's always going to be a lot of people a lot less patient than you and i who will make a lot of noise when people like this (especially people like this) get too brave and push the wrong nerve completely. and things get rescinded, rewritten, reapproached, retried, and eventually some medium is found that's more effective than invisible pamphlets in fast food places, yet not as oppressive as outlawing food.
and so far, on the face of it, harassing restaurants to try a little harder and not shit up our meal simply because they're cheaper isnt something i have a problem with because i dont see that leading to illicit burgers. that's just not realistic.

so, in my mind, when slippery slop (ha, pun) arguments can be used to substantiate and give equal weight to both reasonable conjecture and outright conspiracy, it does turn into an easy device rather than anything i want to seriously think about.

Re: Seems kind of slippery-slopey...
 

I think you're right.

Re: Seems kind of slippery-slopey...
 

This is the same city that put the kabosh on trans fats. This is more than an argument it's emperical at this point. So really the burden is on you to argue salt in itself isn't an absurd overreach. I also think it shows a dramatically undeserved trust in government go along with the salt crusade when it's merely a condiment on industrial overly processed poison that all comes from the same warehouse and microwaved to taste

Re: Seems kind of slippery-slopey...
 

There were almost no consumer-upside to restaurants using trans fats... almost like a poison. Salt is much, much different...

I think that is when we've jumped off the consumer advocacy shit and onto the oily slope.

Re: Seems kind of slippery-slopey...
 

The Jewish sections of the cities here in Morocco are called Mellah, which means salt in Arabic. This is because during the Middle Ages the Jews used to be the salt traders. Back then salt was worth it's weight in Italian marble. I am not joking either, a kilo of salt was traded for a kilo of marble from Italy!

(this really has nothing to do with this thread, but it is an interesting FYI)

Re: Seems kind of slippery-slopey...
 

i think thats a matter of opinion, no?

i think it skirts the line, certainly, but i dont have a problem. when i feel that they've overstepped i'll say something, but i really, really dont mind this particular campaign.

some people think it oversteps a boundary and have a problem with it. thats fine. i dont care that much, i'm just opining.

so far we're seeing an obvious link from a-to-b, but it's hardly "emprical" that the only direction it's got to go in is 'c.' it certainly could, but it's really not a bridge burned once it's crossed.

Re: Seems kind of slippery-slopey...
 

sure, I mean really we're just bullshitting. I just happen to disagree with you. For instance I think its quite possible to be scientific about this. Look at all the health problems associated with salt, then look at all the health problems associated with everything else that is going on in food and allocate your resources accordingly. Regardless of slippery slopes or irate libertarians, the salt crusade loses and loses big.

Re: Seems kind of slippery-slopey...
 

that's cool. i mean if it doesnt work out thats fine, just saying i dont mind that restaurants get in the hot seat to try harder.

i think that salt is the common denominator in restaurant/take out food that's much more saturated than it should be, and its widespread acceptance makes it more of a risk than other additives that may be more chemically harmful, but less omnipresent. sure it serves more as an exacerbator than a cause, but theres not many food items with an overdose of salt that doesnt also abuse caloric content in general. so on top of ingesting foods which might lead to congestive heart failure, salt multiplies that risk along with high blood pressure and stroke.

i'm not coming at this from the perspective of 'people needing to be saved from themselves', i'm coming at with the 'hell yes make restaurants try a little harder to make something that tastes and is a little more decent for you' take

Re: Seems kind of slippery-slopey...
 

All I know is that from time to time, I want the freedom to go on a self-destructive rampage by eating one of these items. I'm especially drawn to the "The Double Bacon Hamburger Fatty Melt"...

Re: Seems kind of slippery-slopey...
 

Hmmm, I wonder which country that website's aimed at?

Re: Seems kind of slippery-slopey...
 

"Turbaconucken: A chicken inside a duck inside a turkey, all wrapped in bacon."

I bet they serve fries with that too. Christ.... :D

Re: Seems kind of slippery-slopey...
 

I never understood why things that aren't meant to be deep-fried are. Like, candy bars.

Re: Seems kind of slippery-slopey...
 

You mean.... you mean.... you've never heard of the deep-fried Mars Bar? :eek:

I haven't ever tried one, I have to admit. And in Scotland they deep-fry all kinds of stuff. Deep-fried haggis in batter is actually quite delicious.

Re: Seems kind of slippery-slopey...
 

Pretty much deep-fried ANYthing is delicious in my book.

Re: Seems kind of slippery-slopey...
 

that is one of the only golden rules of culinary arts.

Re: Seems kind of slippery-slopey...
 

i miss the US version of the mars bar. it was like a snickers except way better.

Re: Seems kind of slippery-slopey...
 

Holy crap! Since I linked to the fat-food site, there have been two more additions. The "Deep Fried Peanut Butter-Covered Brownie Wrapped In Cookie Dough", and the "Jabaconageburger With Cheese", which is a "cheeseburger patty topped with bacon and sausage between two jamaican beef patties" Check 'em out!

A few years ago, my friend Todd and I invented something like this stuff. We took a hot dog, a couple strips of bacon, some cheese, and chili - sealed it all up tight in a layer of ground beef and grilled it on a George Foreman grill. Then we put it in a nice, fresh-baked hoagie roll, and there it was. We named it the "Boneless Brown Trout". Some of you may know what that usually refers to, and that should help you picture what it looked like.