Iran's new statement on Israel...
 

So, as Peter Tatchell shrewdly points out in the Grauniad, why have we heard nothing of this?:confused:

The original article and vid of the i/v can be found here.

I would say that that is a pretty impressive clarification of Iran's position. If the Palestinians are happy to live in a dual state, so be it - it's up to them. No calls for wiping anyone off the map here, eh?

Re: Iran's new statement on Israel...
 

Whoa, very interesting change of position from what the media usually suggests is his view.
I don't know enough about the conflict or the man to know if this is to be trusted or if there's perhaps something lost in translation. But it certainly bodes well for more detailed dialogue.

Re: Iran's new statement on Israel...
 

it's funny because he always seems like he just misses the boat on actually using the language he needs to get the finer details of his ideas clearly, but since he runs the country like a batshit asshole people are fine with taking his communicative clumsiness and running with it.
im not wondering whether hes a softer guy than we all thought, but i cant help but think that this arduous process of rephrasing was really just fumbling towards the articulate construction of his original idea that didnt sound cartoonishly demonic.

Re: Iran's new statement on Israel...
 

Of course these remarks will be played down over here - regardless of their credibility.

On the other hand, there's no getting away from the fact that Ahmadinejad...
So true. The number of times he could have just clarified his position but chose not to, putting his reputation to his own people above his reputation to the rest of the world, however much that isolated Iran.

I notice he also elaborated - slightly - on the 'no gays in Iran' comment...

The problem, as always, is what to believe?

He seems even more of a politician (in the derogatory sense of the word) than some of our own. Yet despite that, none of us should cease remaining suspicious of the motives of our more warmongering politicians and media barons here in the US and UK, and the language they use - or don't use.

Re: Iran's new statement on Israel...
 

Pretty forgiving posts here. I for one don't trust a word this man says.

Re: Iran's new statement on Israel...
 

Curious here, rather than pointing an accusatory finger, but why don't you trust him? Or rather, do you trust him any less than any of the other players in this quagmire, and if so, why?

One thing that has often bugged me is the "assertion" in the Western Press that he wanted Israel "wiped off the map". This is something that has been bandied about with gusto, and I for one hardly questioned it as it seemed to fall into line with my attitudes about him in general (I understand why he would think that way, but I certainly don't condone any such attitude).

Then I came across this in the Huffpo while trawling through some comments on a completely different topic. It made me realise that, as the man said, we have been lied-to about what Ahmadinejad's actual statement was to put the wind up us...

And there appears to be an Israeli minister who thinks kidnapping him and bringing him to Israel so he can be indicted at the Hague for "threatening genocide" would be a good thing:
Hmmmm....

Re: Iran's new statement on Israel...
 

It's not based on any one statement as much as it is his overall behavior. That and the few Iranian families I know out here in southern California who, across the board, tell me with confidence that they believe he's basically "crazy". And no, my distrust and dislike of the man doesn't translate into any support of the idea of some kind of military action against Iran.

Hm. I think talking about trusting politicians comparatively is sort of a moot point when you get right down to it. What it comes down to for me was that I was just a little surprised to see the responses here to these new statements from Ahmadinejad. Simply put, for me, they change nothing about my feelings towards the man. But it seems that they may have changed the views of some people here, yes?

Re: Iran's new statement on Israel...
 

Well, you know me. I have never been of the "bomb the bastards" frame of mine, no matter who the "bastards" in question happen to be. Middle way and all that, eh? ;)

But I must also confess to having thought he didn't have all his dogs on one lead, and wasn't to be trusted until I started digging a little deeper. Firstly the fiasco that was the British Navy/Straits of Hormuz affair, with the blurring of truth as to where the Navy boat was when it was captured; I know my govt are capable of weasel words, but I didn't realise the extent to which they would actually tell huge great big porkie pies and expect us to swallow them whole.

And secondly, the realisation that the "wipe Israel from the map" statement was in fact never said by him at all. It takes the worst possible bad faith to translate what he actually said as being a threat of genocide. If I were to say "The Archbishop said this occupying regime in Iraq must vanish from the pages of time" is that me threatening to wipe the US and the UK off the map? Nuh-uh.

And! I really must stop starting sentences with conjunctions because it is bad grammar. :D

Edit: And! ;)... further grist to the mill here, from Richard Silverstein in the Grauniad (yes I know I am quoting liberal lefty media here for the most part, before anyone whacks me for it.)

Re: Iran's new statement on Israel...
 

From what I've seen and heard of him, I neither trust him nor like him. He strikes me as devious, and someone who I would hate to see with nuclear capability, despite the inherent unfairness in that position.

(EDIT: Ahmadinejad, not Richard Silverstein. Obviously!)

Having said that, I also remain deeply suspicious about how 'our side' is playing and presenting things, for reasons which I've given over the last couple of years.

I never forget that we're far more enlightened and yes, better, than Iran in many respects, but I also never forget that we're probably more morally bankrupt in a few other ways, and, with our more sophisticated military and media machine, capable of much greater duplicity than Iran is in its current state.

Do I trust Bush?
No.

Do I trust Ahmadinejad?
Even less so.

Hopefully this won't get boiled down to a 'forgiving post'. ;)

Re: Iran's new statement on Israel...
 

Not at all. In fact, your post was the only one of the first four that I wasn't referring to at all when I made the "forgiving" comment. And just to be clear, it's not like I took the other three to be saying "oh - I guess he's a great guy" or anything like that about Ahmadinejad. I just meant that the new comments seemed to have carried more weight with a few people than I expected they would given his overall track record. It's gonna take a lot more than a couple vague, debatable statements from him to change my views personally.

As for the rest of your post here, I'm in complete agreement.

Re: Iran's new statement on Israel...
 

Watched the Daily Show last night, and Stewart's guest was Hooman Majd.

Video here.

I've read several books on Iran - not from a political learning point of view, or because of current events - but because Iranian/Persian history is when you stop and think about it amazing. Architecture, poetry, science and learning, diversity of history, culture and society. A vast and sprawling history that dwarfs my own country.

Iran's elections are next June - and if Iranians think Ahmadinejad is a bit bonkers and will look to get rid of him - then that is their right. As Majd points out - it is the Ayatollah's that hold the main power in Iran.

I don't really know if my thoughts add to the thread, but from what I've read, Iran is far more than the scary "evil" place that our media paints it to be. And much like Afghanistan - we don't really know the places we proceed to bomb and attack - for the purpose of 'fixing'.

All that said, Ahmadinejad could well be a complete nutter. But then I think GW Bush and the Pope are as well, so what do I know. ;)

Re: Iran's new statement on Israel...
 

Saudi cleric favours one-eye veil

Not relevant to the topic at hand other than to wonder how much more coverage this would be getting if the cleric was Iranian rather than Saudi.

Re: Iran's new statement on Israel...
 

no, it just a political clarification for me. there's enough sense prevailing that, regardless of the meeting-halfway talk, the guy is patently crazy. this isnt going to change.
i just never trusted the clips that were selected for us here in the states to see. everything would point to someone (again) cartoonishly evil. not understandably demented. someone for who being rational doesnt even exist, so that perhaps edging closer to a proposal to react and aggressively displace him would be much less of a deal, because you clearly can't talk to him. bush is demented, but somewhere we know why, and we know his limits. he's deplorable, but he's contained. however this dude is so off the charts something has to be done oh god...

i dont doubt that allowing the guy to have nuclear capability is a short step away from attacking israel, but politically theres no way the guy would just unequivocally push for extermination, and thats what it's been distilled down to for us. this version is a lot less alarmist and inciteful, and what i suspect through a combination of convenience and barrier was ignored for the OHMYGOD media deliciousness.

Re: Iran's new statement on Israel...
 

An interesting article on Iran - Iran's Interrupted Freedom.

You know - because there really isn't any 'THEM'.

"Iranians are as ready as ever to complain about inflation, corruption and an overall lack of opportunity - but try and talk politics, and the most likely response is disinterest. True, at the top levels the attitudes and the rhetoric are still often vehement; the country's president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, was in routine form at the United Nations general assembly's annual meeting in New York, prophesying the end of the "American empire" and scorning the "few bullying powers" who were trying to ruin his country's "peaceful nuclear activities". But in much of Iran, in the marketplaces and cafes and streets, people have other concerns: this sort of thing appears to be just irrelevant background noise."

Re: Iran's new statement on Israel...
 

A British former foreign secretary writes in the Sunday Times:

"Some key decision makers in Israel fear that unless they attack Iranian nuclear enrichment facilities in the next few months, while George W Bush is still president, there will not be another period when they can rely on the United States as being anywhere near as supportive in the aftermath of a unilateral attack. In the past 40 years there have been few occasions when I have been more concerned about a specific conflict escalating to involve, economically, the whole world."

Warning signs of an Israeli strike on Iran

October Surprise, anyone?