parah salin?
 

John McCain is not only trying desperately to win this election, he's putting the fate of our country in jeopardy. This woman has been a governor of a state that has a population smaller than that of Charlotte, North Carolina, and before that she was a mayor of a town of less than 9,000 people.

John McCain is an old man- in fact, if he is elected, he will be the oldest first term president ever elected. And, although he is seemingly in good health, old people die, no matter how much power they might have. Can you imagine John McCain having a heart attack and having this woman in power? The thought scares me. This woman has nowhere near the experience and judgement to assume the office of president, and she doesn't have the maturity to put her country first and deny the office of vice president due to her extreme inexperience.

The biggest thing this woman has ever done was try to build a public use sports complex in her town of Wasilla. Unfortunately, a developer named Gary Lundgren already owned the land, so, get this- she attempted to acquire the land through eminent domain. Republicans are supposed to be for individual rights and freedoms. All throughout the writings of John Locke and the Declaration of Independence, property rights are again and again stated as something that everyone deserves as a natural right. The land is still being disputed, but while it is, they went ahead and built the sports complex.

And conveniently, this little bit of information was strangely removed from her wikipedia article only a few hours after her Vice Presidential nominee status was announced.

And the biggest thing- SHE'S A FLIP FLOPPER!

She was for the 'bridge to nowhere' being funded by federal tax dollars before it became unpopular- and then she was against it!

In her campaign to become governor, she advocated teaching creationism in schools, and, once she was elected, she said it wasn't neccesary!

And this is the killer for the conservative Christians- she states she's against gay marriage, but she approves giving gay couples the same rights as married men and women.

So there are three questions to ask:

1. Does she have the experience and wisdom to be able to become president at any time?

2. Barring that, is she an honest person who holds steadfast to her beliefs and will uphold the principles of the Declaration of Independence and laws of the Constitution?

3. Finally, will she help John McCain get elected?

I think we all know the answers to all three.

Re: sarah palin?
 

McCain is right. She's just like him:D

Re: sarah palin?
 

He blew the election when he passed over Romney. Hell, Romney, Huckabee, or Ron Paul should have been the candidate.

Re: sarah palin?
 

Alska actually kept the dollars for the bridge to nowhere, too. They just didn't build it.

Re: sarah palin?
 

The choice of Palin is just plain bonkers.

But that's an outsiders opinion.

If - as seems to be the point, the aim is get Hillary voters across to back the ticket - because, you know, she has boobs - then the last 8 years have really screwed with sensibilities in the US.

Because you know the Washington elite aren't going to give her the time of day.

It does seem odd - after 8 years of GW and the intense power that was/is Cheney - to try to imagine McCain and Palin being in the White House.

That's what's really strange - after all the footstomping, chestbeating, red-meat gargling, strong on terrrism fanaticism we've seen from the GOP over the last 8 years - this old guy and as Stewart says "the Emmy award winning librarian from any Cinemax movie" - are the best they've got to take on the torch.

And they want the rest of the world, and their own population to believe in and follow these two.

Bonkers.

At least our female PM looks like she'd smash you, just as soon as talk to you.

http://media.apn.co.nz/webcontent/im...caption435.jpg

Re: sarah palin?
 

she then kept the federal money that was earmarked for the project and recommended that they use it instead as a disbursement to the general alaskan population. apparently figuring federal tax dollars should go to a, "you chose to live in alaska, here's some money" initiative.


1. i don't believe so, although i'm not sure "at any time" is the appropriate context. i don't believe she is at a point in her career right now where she has the wisdom or experience. but then, i also ride the fence on whether obama has the experience and wisdom to become president. what is reassuring about obama is that he seems to surround himself with very knowledgeable advisers and he seems like an extremely intelligent person who is able to hear advice, learn an issue quickly, and make intelligent decisions based on the available information (as evidenced by his responses in the so-called "science debate"). so far palin's track record doesn't show a similar ability.

2. i don't feel you can really pose that question at this point. if your argument is that she's inexperienced, then she hasn't built a record of office that would illustrate her integrity or intentions to uphold the US constitution. you also have provided too few examples to evaluate her honesty or how steadfast she is in her core ethics. i'm not arguing one way or another here, i just feel like the answer to #1 means you can't actually answer #2.

3. as they say in the south, she might could. remember, there's a very strong evangelical voter base out there that just wants the illusion of integrity and conservative values. she absolutely embodies conservative values at least superficially. don't forget that george bush sailed his way into a re-election based on the very common argument that, "he might not always be right, but at least he sticks to his guns." not to mention the "fiscally conservative" voter base who cast their ballots for bush in spite of the fact that he's run the most spend-a-riffic administration possible, simply because he spoke the language of conservatism. sadly, both the democrats and the republicans have a large voter base that is willing to vote for soundbites over substance, so it's perfectly plausible that she could create the illusion of conservatism that the traditionalists are looking for and that could win back some of the disenfranchised right wing.

Re: sarah palin?
 

one other thought: i'm not a big fan of the "mccain is old" argument, especially in the context that he's old and will therefore surely die in office and leave us with an inevitable palin presidency. horseshit. the man is systemically healthy as a horse and showing no signs of decline. he may be older than any first term president but that isn't really saying much.

hell, william harrison served as president when he was 68 years old, in 1841. do you realize what the life expectancy difference is between 1841 and 2008? reagan was 69 when he took office for his first term, and the dude lived until 2004.

be concerned about his brushes with skin cancer, sure. but that's not an age-related illness.

Re: sarah palin?
 

I love how in the wake of all this, the media just tries and tries to be sexy, only to display themselves as completely out of touch with the average voter.

This moronic quote from a Politico article (http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/12997), a commonly repeated idea in many news pubs, is the subject of my criticism:

Now, you tell me... what self-respecting female will cross party lines and go against their value system just to put "a woman" in office? Some will cross over because "OMG it's a chick, you go girl!!!" and general moronic gestures, but enough to sway an election? As Bryant so clearly pointed out, Sarah Palin is a completely inexperienced Republican buffoon, and will probably cost McCain more votes than earn him.

My prediction, a moderate win of the popular vote for Obama, and an electoral landslide in November.

P.S. - Did McCain just pick this woman's name out of a hat? Completely irresponsible imo.

Re: sarah palin?
 

the hillary supporters who will vote mccain just because obama beat clinton (and snubbed her for the vp spot)

Re: sarah palin?
 

Dang, 47 less votes for Obama... :(

Re: sarah palin?
 

i still say shes way too conservative to sway anyone enough to vote for them over the next two months. if she was on mccains clout level it might work for the sufficently dumb, but she's going to have to talk, and anyone who was all about hillary is going to have to do a LOT of rationalization to think voting republican at this stage is okay just because

Re: sarah palin?
 

exactly. most of the women who strongly supported clinton did so because clinton has worked so hard to uphold some very liberal ideals, particularly abortion and contraception rights. you don't see, say, nancy pelosi carrying the same approval rating among women that hillary clinton does.

it's just interesting how it always comes down to women's inability to use their noggins. when bill clinton ran i remember how the media kept talking about how he would bring in the female voters because he's attractive (so they say). i remember the same thing being said about dan quayle, that he would bring in valuable female votes because he was young and attractive. i remember recently that there were predictions of john edwards' success because he's young and attractive.

so now you've got a young attractive female candidate and no one's saying, "men are going to flock to her because she's young and attractive." no, once again it's women being totally brainless and voting for her because she's a chick.

Re: sarah palin?
 

an overblown media myth. the actual proportion of the voting population who fits this description is infinitesimally small. don't buy into it.

Re: sarah palin?
 

triple post.

interesting abstract i found about gender issues and voting. unfortunately you have to be a member in order to access the full study but the abstract alone was informative.

Re: sarah palin?
 

politicos are always desperates for talking points, they'll say any fucking thing. dan quayle was picked because bush sr. owed his family a favor. every demographic is as dumb as pundits need them to be to have something to say.


oh but look:
LOL

it'll be interesting if it goes anywhere. and as someone else said on the other board i stole this from: "not that this should matter in the election at all, but it would be lying to say that it won't if it's true"
even with that said, i dont know. claiming mamahood for a baby that isnt yours because it'd look bad for you if your teenage daughter got pregnant? wrong, rough, and sad.

take with the largest grain of salt you can, tho.

Re: sarah palin?
 

been reading this alaskan based guy's blog (i guess he moved there before Palin became governor). his last few posts have been about Palin.

some quick stuff he pointed out:
• her very high approval rating was when she first became governor (but has quickly gone downhill)
• those ratings were high cuz she was replacing a really awful governor (she was essentially the "anyone but" candidate)
• they don't remember her being against the bridge to nowhere

http://mudflats.wordpress.com/2008/0...s-perspective/

Re: sarah palin?
 

haha i was just coming here to post about this. seems like a terribly far-fetched conspiracy theory but funny to contemplate.

democrats have run a pretty clean and respectful campaign up until now. i hope it doesn't start getting nasty because that can only harm rather than help. true or not, there's no way to parlay this into an advantage.

Re: sarah palin?
 

Agreed. I thought the Obama campaign's initial reaction was a tad ungracious - was it Bill Burton or someone? Whoever it was, just leaping straight into a criticism of her lack of experience within barely an hour of the announcement was poor form. Good for Hillary for issuing a more generous congratulation.

Re: sarah palin?
 

Holy cow - TrooperGate, BabyGate, the bridge to nowhere.

And now from Josh Marshall - this story, with audio links - which if even slightly true has to make you wonder about the viability of Palin to hold the VP gig.

Or it could make you agree - that she's following in the footsteps of all the great ones - and will fit right into the Washington system. It's not like the abuse of powers over the last 8 years have led to much wringing of hands and/or gnashing of teeth amongst the conservative masses.


"We rely on elected officials not to use the power of their office to pursue personal agendas or vendettas.

It's called an abuse of power.

There is ample evidence that Palin used her power as governor to get her ex-brother-in-law fired. When his boss refused to fire him, she fired his boss.

She first denied Monegan's claims of pressure to fire Wooten and then had to amend her story when evidence proved otherwise.

The available evidence now suggests that she 1) tried to have an ex-relative fired from his job for personal reasons, something that was clearly inappropriate, and perhaps illegal, though possibly understandable in human terms, 2) fired a state official for not himself acting inappropriately by firing the relative, 3) lied to the public about what happened and 4) continues to lie about what happened.

These are, to put it mildly, not the traits or temperament you want in someone who could hold the executive power of the federal government"

Re: sarah palin?
 

It appears on the surface that Senator McCain and his campaign didn't do their due diligence, but not to worry as many are more than willing to do it for him.

The problem that I have with the troopergate stuff is Governor Palin's appearance of continued dishonesty about her role. I'd bet if she had been honest, this would go away.

Jason

Re: sarah palin?
 

the McCain innervoice is hilarious:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qUVQDmLf7s

Re: sarah palin?
 

Bingo!

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/e.../Mine/KOTH.jpg

Re: sarah palin?
 

the plot thickens.

the baby isn't her daughter's. can't be. because her 17-year-old daughter of conservative values IS 5 MONTHS PREGNANT OUT OF WEDLOCK *lightning crashes*

my initial thought was that this wouldn't play well with conservatives. knocked up teenage girl, etc. then i realized that we're talking about a very special group of people whose "conservative" values totally embrace teenage sluttery as long as they marry the teenage father and choose life.

so actually i think this is going to turn out to be the perfect storm of controversy for the republicans. the evangelicals and the backwater suburbanites will flock to them in support of the blessed 17 year old who doesn't understand the basic principle of contraception.

Re: sarah palin?
 

Man, this is amazing.

Re: sarah palin?
 

HAAAAAHAHAHAHA

WE'RE ABOUT TO GET VICTORIAN ALL UP IN THIS ELECTION.
a family with a bastard child? THE NERVE!

Re: sarah palin?
 

Close your eyes and think of Alaska.

Re: sarah palin?
 

How convenient. Something still seems awfully strange though about all this...

EDIT: I know what it is. The part that seems strange is that this new series of events is almost the perfect plan B to what would happen if plan A went sour. Plan A of course to hide the daughter's pregnancy, and Plab B to absolve Ms. Palin of any wrong-doing, should people catch on.

OH FOR FUCK'S SAKES will someone just call fucking Maury Povich and get a baby-daddy test center on the line?!?!?!

Re: sarah palin?
 

I was wrong. This is waaaaaaaayyyyy stranger than Harriet Miers.

I don't see how McCain picked her but just for her ovaries and looks. Otherwise, she's too much like the Bush administration to be an "outsider."

Re: sarah palin?
 

maybe britney's sister will show up in a campaign ad
http://www.etonline.com/news/2007/12/56643/

Re: sarah palin?
 

i really hope that after the confusion settles and the convention is over this whole bullshit can be dropped and we can get to consistently wearing down any conception that this is a competent choice. people are just assuming this off the bat because she has ZERO federal experience, but that's no reason to rest on that and let the GOP keep refocusing the debate.

laws of political obfuscation almost guarantee that once bullshit starts it doesnt stop, but maybe just this once....

it's encouraging anyway that obama camp is really uncomfortable with this line of schandenfreude

Re: sarah palin?
 

^ i can vouch for how it'll play in the south if we're using jamie lynn spears as a benchmark. the dominant "conservative" suburbanites of alpharetta, georgia will absolutely love her and support her because of this. expect to see it play out that way across the south.

Re: sarah palin?
 

religion loves a redemption story more than a perfect slate.
though its still funny to hear "everybody makes mistakes" in politics. lol ok.

Re: sarah palin?
 

hey you remember indicted senator ted stevens (bridge to nowhere, "the internet is a series of tubes" ted stevens)? turns out sarah palin was director of his 527 group.

how is that relevant? well, let's see, it's only mccain's most vehemently pursued issue in recent years.

Re: sarah palin?
 

oh yes, and apparently our founding fathers enjoyed reciting the 1950s version of the pledge of allegiance, which was originally composed in 1892.

that's a minimum of a 150 year budget shortfall in her mental math.

link

Re: sarah palin?
 

This was my friend's comment:

"Man, I just ordered my McCain-MILF 08 button! Maybe I can cross out the M and put in a G instead."

Re: sarah palin?
 

If Palin starts poking out her chest while riding a horse, then we'll know the McCain campaign is desperate.

Re: sarah palin?
 

...I'll watch...

:o

Re: sarah palin?
 

I'm starting to think we're being distracted by this Palin person - and missing something really obvious.

It can't really be this easy can it? To skewer the GOP so easily?

I mean, come on - Bush and Cheney - they were a joke - but enough fell for them.

This isn't even a joke is it? Really?

Oh well - might as well join in the fun.

http://sarahpalin.typepad.com/

And this is really reaching for the arse end of the barrel - because she's the COMMANDER IN CHIEF of the Alaskan National Guard - that must mean she's got more foreign policy experience than the Democrats.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYYiw_y2qDI

Oh. But wait. Turns out she does nada when it comes to commanding the National Guard. That's all done at the federal level. Duh.

"From McCain's wife, Cindy, came a geographic assessment of qualification: "Alaska is the closest part of our continent to Russia. So, it's not as if she doesn't understand what's at stake here."

bahahahahahaha.

And if you are trying to keep track of it all.

TPM's Election Central

Re: sarah palin?
 

Can anyone confirm whether this woman really believes the earth is 6,000 years old (and presumably things like this were planted by Satan)?

Re: sarah palin?
 

shut up, cindy.