Democrat National Convention
 

I thought I would create a new thread regarding the Democrat National Convention. So far I thought it's been fairly successful in just about every way, particularly Senator Clinton and President Clinton. The governor of Montana was also very entertaining Tuesday night.

I'm looking forward to seeing Senator Obama speak tomorrow night. Should be exciting, which just happens to be the 45th anniversary of Dr. King's 'I Have a Dream Speech' in DC.

Apologies if I sound really giddy.

ps to Cacophony -- I'm very enthused about Senator Biden. Kudos to you for showing us what a good guy he is.

Thoughts?

-Jason

Re: Democrat National Convention
 

Hey, I voted him into office! Glad Brian Schweitzer got a chance to speak at the national convention right before Hillary. :)

Re: Democrat National Convention
 

I hope what I said about Governor Schweitzer didn't come across as a slight against him. I kept thinking while watching him, 'Man I hope Senator Obama asks him to campaign with him'. I was completely impressed by his natural candor. --Jason

Re: Democrat National Convention
 

Wait. Jesse Ventura was at the DNC?

And I missed it?

Dammit. ;)

We're getting quite a bit of radio and TV coverage down here - going to hook up my Daily Show torrent queue to get all the best bits though.

Re: Democrat National Convention
 

Biden and Clinton - both superb. And if we're talking soundbites for the masses, this one from Bill was about as good as they come:

"People the world over have always been more impressed by the power of our example than by the example of our power."

The kind of message you won't be hearing next week in Minnesota.

Not had time to watch Kerry yet but I've heard he was on form too.

Feeling a little anxious about Obama's speech though. Someone made what I thought to be a valid point - apparently the backdrop being set up at Mile High Stadium will have him framed by huge great Roman columns. Now given the running theme in the Republican attacks being fired at him (celebrity, rockstar, messiah, etc), do we really think this was a wise choice? Might it not have been much more inspired for him to have gone totally counter-intuitive and given his acceptance speech in a smallish venue, to a selected audience of mostly white and working-class families?

It was a fair point, I thought. Huge venue, roman columns... you can hear the Republican response even before they've aired it. This runs the risk of not living up to its own hype.

We'll soon see, though.

I just hope the security's up to scratch.

Re: Democrat National Convention
 

Yeah well I should warn you that I'm a terrible jinx. Whatever or whoever I support usually loses. So cross your fingers and hope my magical jinx power is broken for the next few months. ;)

Re: Democrat National Convention
 

The republicans are going to rip into Obama something fierce next week, make no mistake about that. They don't have much of a leg to stand on, otherwise, and they'll perpetuate a lot of falsehoods about their own administration that is going to rally their base. I don't think the democrats have done a good enough job going after McCain in this convention. It's been a good convention but not a great one, thus far.

Having said that, this race won't be decided until Obama eviscerates McCain in the debates, which is what I think will happen.

Re: Democrat National Convention
 

I really hope this is sarcasm.

Re: Democrat National Convention
 

Nah, no slight was around. It'd be nice if he campaigned with Obama, but he has to campaign for his job this year, so that may only be minimal.

Re: Democrat National Convention
 

OK, just lost another post, so let's try and recap what I just wrote...

I agree with you Cured about the Republicans ripping into Obama next week far far more than the Dems ripped into McCain this week. The Dems spent a lot of time talking about change and unity, and apart from Biden, not as much on McCain as they might have. Given the way the Republican base appears to have somewhat begrudgingly accepted the reality of McCain rather than enthusiastically championed him, it will be more canny for him to keep the focus on the flaws of Obama. Expect them to run with "Obama is all hype and no trousers and not one of us" and "the world is a dangerous place".

When it comes to the debates later on, I'm far less sure that Obama will get much electoral mileage from those. And that worries me, given how things stand at present. You'll have the homely aw-shucks well-fed veteran hero, prone to almost celebrating his ignorance on certain things, versus the so-called inexperienced, skinny "in-tel-lec-tual" (that word deliberately over-enunciated to make it sound like an alien concept).

If memory serves, Kerry was much more effective than Bush in the debates of 2004. Yet Bush walked away with it. Bush emphasized toughness, he emphasized certainty, and even though Kerry's rebuttals were spot on and demonstrated far better reasoning, it seems that this was more detail than many American viewers/voters needed in a president. They wanted their apple pie, and that's what I fear will happen this year, even moreso than 4 years ago. That demonstrating logical argument and underlying principles come second place to how people will feel.

Also, the international situation could yet swing it to McCain in a big way. I'm still wondering whether Israel plans to go ahead with their strike on Iran before the year is up.

Re: Democrat National Convention
 

i felt Kerry was the only Dem that really went after McCain:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Low2It3dA40

the good stuff starts at 4:04

Re: Democrat National Convention
 

The 2004 election wasn't really decided on the debates. Most people knew which side of the fence they were on. What got conservatives riled up was Bush's promise to put attention on the amendment to ban gay marriage. This single issue got a lot of conservative voters to the polls; those same conservative voters felt betrayed when nothing happened and threatened to stay home in the last election cycle, which a lot of them did.

The reason why I feel Obama will emerge from the debates ahead of McCain isn't simply he's the better speaker but the issue of inexperience won't be on display as much as a discussion on the problems and solutions will. Although Obama and McCain both will accuse each other of flip-flopping, McCain has ahad a real problem getting facts straight over the past few months and, if he isn't sharp when the debates start, simple, lowest common denominator logic won't fly.

Re: Democrat National Convention
 

i agree with deckard, kerry schooled him on debates and it didnt chnage shit. bush openly flopped on the first go-around ("uh....jim?") and he still squeaked in.
i watched the aftermath of that minister meeting bullshit between the two and mccain supposedly came out on top because according to some pundit obama seemed "too thoughtful"

i laughed and turned the tv off.

theres every expectation that mccain will hunker down with his talking points like gollum and his ring when obama eats him for breakfast, and the debate will cater to that because ol fudders shouldnt be outright embarassed.

Re: Democrat National Convention
 

You just outlined a problem Obama has, though: he's too smart in his responses for most voters. A lot of voters are idiots. I've discussed issues with McCain supporters who can't list even a single policy stance he has. They only come up with "he's got the experience" but can't expand on that or define how that translates into good policy making.

Obama is really going to have to dumb down some of what he says.

Re: Democrat National Convention
 

ok, but i hope that hasnt gone so far into practicality that it's not still depressing to hear.
obama isnt hard to follow, and the sooner we can shake this "a simple man for tough times" mentality through acts or by declaration the better. we've done the guy-who-knows-what-he-knows-and-it-aint-relativity gamble and it's panned out to be the worst decision in a time when we needed someone with multi-faceted judgement and perspective. obama's run his campaign on nebulous principles backed up by fantastic speeches and elaboration. if he dumbs it down it's just more hammy sloganeering than what we're already getting.
if he can remain 'thoughtful' and pull this off (which i think he should try, because despite this 'dead heat' talk i think it's the case simply because we havent seen enough of mccain in action, and all of this undecided business is going to get practical for democrats and their party when it comes voting time) it might set a better example for future campaigns.

Re: Democrat National Convention
 

Yeah I accept that. My point was that Kerry's (IMO) superior performance at debating did nothing to raise his standing in the opinion polls. It didn't do much to save him.

(and btw let me just add that I'm not saying that everyone who voted for Bush in '04 voted in the simplistic way I previously implied. Just that, um, probably a lot did ;) )

As a matter of interest, is gay marriage set to be much of an issue this year? I'm not seen too much talk of it this time round.

You could well have a point there.

Hahaha!

Re: Democrat National Convention
 

i really hope they jump on it hard if mccain blows the debates. it'd make a really strong case for their angle of Bush Pt. 3 to do comparisons if mccain can mirror some of that floundering incompetence on display back in 00 and 04

Re: Democrat National Convention
 

Gay marriage isn't an issue in this cycle...I think people have realized that the government is really quite powerless on this singular issue and that it's something that individual states are better equipped to handle.

The reason why I say Obama has to dumb it down is the general populace will remember simple catch phrases. Someone on CNN noted that people who want to go to their local boosters club will want to take direct quotes from candidates to push the message. If there is an elaborate statement with a lot of big words that simple people have a hard time passing through word of mouth, the message will be lost. That's why McCain has kept it really simple and has caught up, among other things.

Once the debates start and McCain can't behind the excuse of Obama's inexperience, he'll fall behind in the polls. I'm just hoping Iran keeps cool and so do we in relation to them.

In other news, is Hurricane Gustav going to be Katrina, the sequel?

Re: Democrat National Convention
 

From an interview with McCain that Time posted yesterday:

Umm... a little strange, no?

I mean, ok, it could have been worse (he could have called him a c***) but still, an unusual way to handle an interview at a time like this.

Maybe these upcoming debates will not work as well for him as I initially thought....

Re: Democrat National Convention
 

I see.

Hopefully Ellen DeGeneres and Portia de Rossi's "normal" wedding will have taken another brick out the wall as well.

Re: Democrat National Convention
 

lol
there's a small part of me that wants him to be rather prepared for a debate.
but mostly i want to see a roast.

Re: Democrat National Convention
 

That's a prime example of his problems. When he's in a debate and he's given a question and two minutes to respond to it, he's really going to have to have everything rehearsed and his memory is going to have to not fail him. What I think he'll have the biggest problem with are the responses that Obama will send back his way. I'm not sure if McCain is prepared to respond to a rebut at this point.

Re: Democrat National Convention
 

very savvy campaign strategy on the mccain campaign's part tonight. they released the information that mccain has settled on a VP running mate and timed it to reach the media in the gap between biden's speech and obama's speech. so now all of the media pundits are spinning their wheels talking about, "who could it be?" and repeating mccain's name when they would otherwise be winding up to obama's appearance. and in fact CNN spent several minutes showing the convention floor but mccain's news and name is all over the crawl. they're now back to talking about obama but i guarantee they'll revisit mccain's news as they're trying to come up with enough brainless chatter to fill the moments before the speech.

the announcement included a statement that they wouldn't reveal the name until tomorrow because tonight is obama's night. smart. they'll reveal the name tomorrow and usurp some of the continuing rehashing of obama's speech and get mccain's name rolling around and taking some of the spotlight back.

i've got to hand it to them. pretty smart move.

Re: Democrat National Convention
 

It makes sense...their convention is next week. I wouldn't call it smart, just appropriate.

Re: Democrat National Convention
 

oh, and I forgot to mention...Amy Holmes is having my children!

Re: Democrat National Convention
 

Okay, no thoughts on Obama's speech?

I watched it, and he delivered big time. McCain will need to answer this big time next week if he's going to have a shot at winning.

Re: Democrat National Convention
 

Alright...FINE. I guess I can talk about this little speech he gave.

In short, Obama took off the gloves and bitch slapped McCain. Maybe its better to say he pimp slapped him. In 2004, Kerry shriveled when he was swift-boated. Obama took on his criticisms head on. The republican response was sophomoric and I don't think they were expecting him to come out and take a swing back. For certain, the republican slime machine is going to eat at him all of next week but the stage has been set. Soon we'll have the debates and soon we'll see the real main event.

I said Obama was going to have to dumb it down in terms of not having his diction fly over everyone's heads and he did that. He also humanized himself. And he laid out his vision.

Now that the gloves are off, you can fast forward through next week. Let me spoil it for you: Obama is inexperienced, he doesn't care for his own half-brother so how can he care for your family, he's going to bankrupt the US and the terrorists are going to drive small boats in droves across the atlantic and bring the fight to us. We can't be safe with Obama, he'll give your country away to the poor, the small businesses we depend on for job growth are going to go under, he'll bring witch doctors in to socialize your medicine, he isn't smart enough to find oil in our own country and, oh, and he's really famous. Lastly, God has chosen John McCain to succeed Premier Bush. And God can kick Allah's ass any time of the week.

Did I miss anything?

Re: Democrat National Convention
 

I can think of some stuff, but I don't want to type it out.

I thought the 'America Voices Program' segment before Dick Durbin was very effective. Senator Obama's speech brought the goods. He took on McCain with no mercy. To quote Chris Matthews on MSNBC tonight after listing the McCain tactics used so far '...a great way of throwing back the other side's (McCain) best shots, and saying it's full of crap'.

Jason

Re: Democrat National Convention
 

I thought it was a very impressive speech. Yes the stage management and razzmattazz was always going to appear a bit cringeworthy to some of us not used to such things, but the speech had substance, he managed to address lots of areas, tick lots of boxes, come across as human, and I felt there were a good selection of soundbites for the evening news...

"Now is the time to end this addiction, and to understand that drilling is a stop-gap measure, not a long-term solution. Not even close."

"John McCain likes to say that he'll follow bin Laden to the Gates of Hell - but he won't even go to the cave where he lives."

"You don't defeat a terrorist network that operates in 80 countries by occupying Iraq."

"So let us agree that patriotism has no party. I love this country, and so do you, and so does John McCain."

"...the change we need doesn't come from Washington. Change comes to Washington. Change happens because the American people demand it - because they rise up and insist on new ideas and new leadership"

"What the nay-sayers don't understand is that this election has never been about me. It's been about you."

Also, after describing various struggling Americans – business owners, factory workers, young students...
" I don't know what kind of lives John McCain thinks that celebrities lead, but this has been mine. These are my heroes."

*smack*!!!

I thought he took a risk with this one though...
"If you don't have a record to run on, then you paint your opponent as someone people should run from."

Hmm.

In short, I think he got almost everything right (including the name-check to Hillary so early on) primarily by making it about the audience, by empathisizing, by offering some specifics, and by keeping everything hooked into the theme of change and the future. I thought he laid into McCain very effectively, making him look a joke on economic issues in particular.

Most of us know Obama is not the Second Coming, and we realise that after a couple of years, we'll/you'll probably be feeling let down by him in the way that Tony "things can only get better" Blair let us Brits down. He will almost certainly disappoint when it comes to the degree of change he can realistically offer, and it would be easy, in anticipation of that, to buy into the mood of cynicism about him. But for now, at this point in time, this guy – to me at least – seems so many streets ahead of the choices America has previously had in their presidential candidates (issue of race aside), it would be a tragedy if they just let him slip by and voted in the Republican.

Re: Democrat National Convention
 

Oh, and I thought those roman columns were fine - didn't even notice for most of the speech which was framed in close-up.

Had to laugh at the way our BBC commentator at the end had to reassure viewers (or probably listeners) that the loud bangs were fireworks and not gun shots!

Re: Democrat National Convention
 

it was no coincidence. i checked CNN and CNN mobile after the speech. mccain's name dominated every headline.

Re: Democrat National Convention
 

Very clever of them, though pretty much all the news sources I've seen today are pointing out that McCain's VP announcement/speculation has been timed to pop Obama's balloon.

Latest speculation by the way is Alaska Governor Sarah Palin.

Re: Democrat National Convention
 

Every major news source is confirming that it is her. Interesting choice.

Re: Democrat National Convention
 

Wow, that's a VERY clever move by them.

Re: Democrat National Convention
 

She's pro-life and she's a woman but she's also 44 and a heartbeat away from the presidency. So much for needing experience. She's got ties to the oil industry and her husband is in the oil biz. That may be fodder for the democrats.

Now that she's in the fight, though, she's going to be given a trial by fire. She's going to be debating Joe Biden soon and when that conversation heads into the foreign policy area, is she going to be regurgitating talking points handed to her on a sheet of paper or is she going to demonstrate some insight that can parry whatever Biden says. After all, one of the them is the chair of the senate foreign relations committee, the other is a fisherman from Alaska.

Re: Democrat National Convention
 

The big bonus about an Obama victory would be there is a democratic congress looking to redeem themselves. They've been at odds with the Bush administration and Obama will have the party backing to actually push some of these ideas through. If the US troops are pulled back in late 2010, well, that's right before the next election cycle starts and he has a finger to wag in the GOPs face.

He isn't the messiah but, standing next to Premier Bush, he certainly seems like it. I think it'll be great for our country in regards to race relations and the re-enfranchisement of minority voters who think this is just a white man's game.

Re: Democrat National Convention
 

interesting the way each candidate has selected someone to counterbalance their perceived weaknesses.

obama's perceived weaknesses - he's inexperienced, he might be a muslim, and he's *gasp* black. so he picks a sparklingly white roman catholic with 35 years experience.

mccain's perceived weaknesses - he's old, he's the same "old white guy" type as every other politician, and he's entrenched in washington. so he picks a young, contemporary woman who presides over a state that's as far from washington as you can get.

too bad she's under investigation for abuse of power.

Re: Democrat National Convention
 

...although she's "cool" about that.

Apparently.

My initial reaction is that Clinton supporters - not only those who were still dead set against Obama, but also those who painfully switched their allegiance to him - might now drift away.

It will be interesting to see how widepread views like this (from the BBC story of it) actually are....

Re: Democrat National Convention
 

I get the feeling that McCain picked Palin largely because she's a woman. He's been running commercials lately trying to appeal to those people who would've voted for Clinton, so on the surface, I can see a good chunk of people changing their minds and voting for McCain because of Palin.

Re: Democrat National Convention
 

I can't talk politics at work anymore. The women here are stupid. One told me they'd vote for McCain because he has a woman on the ticket (they've never heard of her and don't know her positions) and others said they won't vote for Obama because they think he was mean to Hillary. Another woman, a smart co-worker of mine, told me that voting based on gender doesn't mean people are less informed, it's just their choice. The level of absurdity around here is absolutely horrifying.