Making Another Bootleg Baby With Liveherenow Recordings?
 

Is this a viable project at all? We have top quality recordings and enough songs to really make something amazingly good if enough time,skill and effort is put in to it. But would there be copyright issues with the recordings, though it would be something not meant to sell, just distributing. Right?

Re: Making Another Bootleg Baby With Liveherenow Recordings?
 

i've made a Best of LHN playlist but it's about 4hrs long.

Re: Making Another Bootleg Baby With Liveherenow Recordings?
 

4 hrs long aint a problem is it? You shouldn't be restricted to yer typical 80 minute per disc format. Otherwise Bootleg Babies would have been made for a C120 cassette or 2 vinyl LPs.

What about a format that includes something as simple as a 2GB USB drive full of FLACs or WAVs that is decorated very prettily within a fine velvet box with outstanding artwork all over it? Yeah it aint easy to do as CD-Rs but hey, it would be quite nice.

Re: Making Another Bootleg Baby With Liveherenow Recordings?
 

In my mind, the problem is that the recent gigs have been so incredibly good, it's hard to pick a favorite version of the repeated tracks. :)

Here's a couple ideas, though:

:confused: BB2 featuring only tracks not included on the first compilation. So, essentially tracks from AHDO, RR, OWB and new improvs, along with some of the rarities they've pulled back out (Spikee, Air Towel, Spoonman)

:confused: How about a compilation of just Darren Price's improv/interlude tracks?

:confused: Since the concerts have very different feels from night to night (i've been listening to the Belgium, Dutch and German shows), maybe a disc of softer stuff and a disc of harder tracks?

Re: Making Another Bootleg Baby With Liveherenow Recordings?
 

Copyright issues will scrap this, I'd think.

That being said, a group selection to build the best "mixtape" of LHN for your iPod (assuming you have 'em all - like Pokemon), with artwork and such - that each person could build on their own - would probably be alright.

I'd just think you couldn't distribute it since (were it the "best of" the live discs) it could encourage people to NOT buy the discs - exactly what we DON'T want to see happen.

My 2¢ anyways...

Re: Making Another Bootleg Baby With Liveherenow Recordings?
 

No distro, perhaps only legit quality previews somewhere in the vaults of the society.

It would be so easy to do 4h thing. If it's kept to the usual ~70` it will be more exclusive, thus more enjoyable.

Re: Making Another Bootleg Baby With Liveherenow Recordings?
 

i'd prefer a 2 cd tracklist if we did this. alot of the LHN cd's are 2 cd, and in the spirit of their new live setlist time... ya know, we shuld have 2 cd's

Re: Making Another Bootleg Baby With Liveherenow Recordings?
 

The LiveHereNows fall into the category of commercial product. And Dirty discourages the free distribution of commercially-available tunes. It's a tad disrespectful of the band that gives us so much stuff for free anyway to distribute commercial stuff in whatever format. Unlike boots, that is literally taking the bread from their mouths because there will be those who want the "new Bootleg Babies" who won't have bought the cds at all.

Making yourself a mix/compil and posting the tracks and track-timings so that others can create the same compil is fine, but not uploading it and making it freely available like the original BB project.

My 2 penn'orth. :)

Re: Making Another Bootleg Baby With Liveherenow Recordings?
 

i agree with this.

Re: Making Another Bootleg Baby With Liveherenow Recordings?
 

me too
we have plenty of non copyright recordings anyway.
and 4 hrs is feasible because doing a 3cd set is as well.

Re: Making Another Bootleg Baby With Liveherenow Recordings?
 

Technically noone had the right to make the original Bootleg Babies without asking for consent, too. Even audience recordings are under copyright. So basically BB1 was illegal. Of course the situation is different when they got permission. But I don't know.
Sharing bootlegs on RTSR is also illegal. Putting the occasional link to some new or old UW song up here on dirty is illegal.

BUT all good bands like UW let us do that (in certain borders) because they know that eventually it will pay back (new fans...).
Best example: 8 years ago I was exposed to Underworld by an illegal mixtape from my father (guess what song was on it...). I was deeply impressed by that song but I didn't care yet. Then some friend of his burned me an illegal copy of Everything, Everything. I began to search for the internet for Underworld and found the Bootleg Babies. Then I was hooked. That's when I started collecting.

So here's my plan:
1) Get permission from UW and liveherenow
2) Vote for tracks and mix them all together
3) Spread that compilation
4) Watch joyfully as people turn into UW fans and buy all their stuff

Re: Making Another Bootleg Baby With Liveherenow Recordings?
 

That is where your plan will end.

if you want to do this, don't discuss it on the message boards. have everyone who's interested PM you their details, set up an email list and discuss it there. it's just not a good idea to recompile stuff that's available and give it away for free.

Re: Making Another Bootleg Baby With Liveherenow Recordings?
 

thats a long post to be simply rebuked by saying NONE OF THOSE OTHER BOOTLEGS WERE FOR SALE.
first one was technically illegal, and even more technically so because no profit was made from them. they were never put up for sale, never sold, and never distributed as the liveherenow recordings have been
so that's quite a difference and explains why liveherenow are a big no-no on the rtsr circuit.
so no, liveherenow recordings would not be acceptable in any way. the idea of getting permission is preposterous, as permission was never given out even for the recordings that were recorded by fans and excellently compiled. the idea that this might happen for purchaseable items just for fan service is pretty absurd.

besides, let's make this interesting.

Re: Making Another Bootleg Baby With Liveherenow Recordings?
 

Agree that the liveherenow tracks are not to be dispersed for free.

The copyrighting of concert recordings is an issue when bootlegs are sold. Recording concerts is as old as the hills and many, many bands are fine with the hardcore fans doing this and trading freely (in the spirit of RTSR). The difference comes when its a professionally-produced "Live" album, like EE or the soundboard recordings from liveherenow that are intended for profit are sold or distributed second-hand.

So, knocking out the LHN recordings, can we nominate from the canon of fan recordings from 2000 - present? Additionally, there's several excellent gigs that UW has shared on UWLive or broadcast (e.g. Osaka 05, Cocoon 06, Oblivion Ball and Roundhouse 07).

Quick count from my shelves...i've got at least 45 fan/broadcast recordings from 2000 on, and there are plenty more, i'm sure. We should have no problem if this is to go forward. "If" being the operative word;)

Re: Making Another Bootleg Baby With Liveherenow Recordings?
 

we've already made a few attempts at this,
right after they came out:

check back through the threads here:
http://www.darktrain.org/dirty/forum...t=6875&page=15

(i bumped it back up)

your best bet is just pick the tracks, and
mix them yourself..

later
-1

Re: Making Another Bootleg Baby With Liveherenow Recordings?
 

Just want to clear up this common Internet (and before the Internet) misconception. Jan was correct when he said even audience recordings are covered by copyright law, whether sold or distributed for free.

Educate yourself:

http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html
http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap11.html

That said, while it is technically against the law, it's rarely, if ever, prosecuted. Mostly bands look the other way (talking about audience boots here). And some have even given explicit permission for P2P sharing of live shows (Pearl Jam, Phish, John Mayer).

Re: Making Another Bootleg Baby With Liveherenow Recordings?
 

After healthy sales would anyone, especially LHN, really care if some hardcore fans compile a CD? I don't think so. Would anyone get persecuted? Probably not, but definitely YES if someone is actually trying to make money.
And finally, with all the piracy made possible by the beautiful internet, we are huring no one, hurting no one.
We can come up with lots of pros and cons and never make a move. It's interesting where this is going to. Methinks it all comes down to consensus.

Re: Making Another Bootleg Baby With Liveherenow Recordings?
 

<rant>
Would anyone, especially Underworld, get pissed off at reading this, after all the free goodies, the live streamings, the radio shows they give us hardcore fans year in year out? Damn!

Whether you are trying to make money from it or not is irrelevant. What you are doing by suggesting sharing this kind of thing is preventing THEM from making money from one of their own products. Irrespective of the legality or the likelihood of being sued, it is morally wrong to do that, especially on here, and especially if you are a fan.

Methinks it all comes down to some people wanting something for nothing - again. And Karl was right to have his little dig about that during the Southampton radio broadcast too, because no matter how much they give us, there always seems to be someone who wants more for free, rather than sticking their hand in their pocket.

Show some respect, ffs. Do whatever you want to do privately, but don't promote stealing music from our favourite band on their official fan forum. Ta. :mad:

</rant>

Edit: On the point of BB1 being illegal or otherwise, my understanding is that permission was sought and given for that project. It most certainly would not be for something like this, for all the reasons stated

Re: Making Another Bootleg Baby With Liveherenow Recordings?
 

wtf? It should be clear that without permission anything that goes beyond a private project is crossing the line.
But, if we could get permission from UW and liveherenow to make a compilation... that'd be another thing.
A compilation like this is a great chance for UW to spread their music even further. See it from that side. It's the best advertising they can get. They are, in fact, not losing money, but instead making new fans and more money.
Ask yourself how you got into UW or other bands. Okay, the majority through Trainspotting or listening to UW in a club. But there are also lots of people who got into UW with illegal or at least "half-illegal" means (like mixtapes, CD copied by a friend, Bootleg Babies).

Re: Making Another Bootleg Baby With Liveherenow Recordings?
 

hows about compiling a best of the live here now series, on paper, here on the board...

then we take it to 'live here now' and suggest that it be put out as a 'best of' of the live here now releases, more like an 'Everything Everything 2'... or perhaps even get UW to suggest this idea to live here now...

we choose the tracks, they mix / compile it and we buy it from them... they have the source files and the facilities - if its tracklisting comes from us, then the know that they will get buyers because its what we want....

surely thats the best option...


(most likely unworkable / but the best option, imo)

i'll speak to the guys ;)

Re: Making Another Bootleg Baby With Liveherenow Recordings?
 

That's a great idea!
But also true...

In any case, I think we could vote for a tracklist as soon as possible. There is nothing wrong with that. If that idea of asking LHN and UW doesn't work out, we'd still have a tracklist which everybody can assemble theirselves.

Re: Making Another Bootleg Baby With Liveherenow Recordings?
 

Seems like the best option to just get a fan fav set. So, would it be a two CD set like the gigs?

Re: Making Another Bootleg Baby With Liveherenow Recordings?
 

yep

two discs - max 160 minutes...

if it doesn't come off official, then, well like Jan says we can make our own (providing we have the source materials, in which case if we don't then its likely to generate more sales for LHN & UW ;))

it would be nice for it to be blended and seemless like EE, but hey its a start... getting the tracks selected first

anyone wanna provide the entire LHN set lists and track times??

another thing, i liked the idea of a mellow disc and harder disc, but in reality I think the whole set should flow like any standard show...

perhaps we can even get KH to submit a spoken 'opening poem' uniquely designed for this set.... i know he'd be willing to do this just for the dirty people... ;)

one request from me is to include a version of spoonman and skyscraper...

i'm not sure how BB was selected before - was it a vote?

someone needs to take directorship of the project because the tracklist has to flow and not just include the top 10 most popular tracks some common sense order needs to be agreed... (i.e. no car crash mixes like some of the LHN sets had)


just my plan...

Re: Making Another Bootleg Baby With Liveherenow Recordings?
 

matt,
and the rest of you..

as mentioned in my post earlier : http://www.darktrain.org/dirty/forum...8&postcount=15

myself, thebang, and others have been listing, making cue sheets,
and picking out tracks for quite some time now....

please re-read, and search through the threads where we already
done this..

we've even had polls about the best live tracks already...

the groundwork has already been done.

*****RANT

THE BIGGEST PROBLEM is the nonresponsiveness, and bad
action from liveherenow for some people...i've put in an order
a few months ago, and have gotten no response from them,
as others have..

so i have a little problem in endorsing them, as they are the
only provider of this music.....if there was another option
maybe it would be more worthwhile..

as it is, i dont really care if they make more money or not,
but they are definitely hurting, and putting a black eye on
underworld with their behaviour

**** RANT OVER



later
-1

Re: Making Another Bootleg Baby With Liveherenow Recordings?
 

apologies raj, i did recall the thread, i was just being lazy ;)

surley there is enough decent material from all the live here now stuff to compile 2 discs worth of music, and if we were to do all the groundwork, they could be somewhat helpful, especially with Underworld on board, they could make this happen... i emphasis 'could'

i think most of the bad issues from live here now have come from dispatching rather than anything else...

it does seem like the easiest and most professional option, but it may well be unlikley to get done...

ok then how about we make the ultimate tracklist first and then see what happens...

lets not knock this down before its started

this project could be done along side a completely different 'bootleg' babies 2 - personally i think bb2 seems like a harder project than this one to compile...