will everyone just stop...
 

complaining ...and moaning



its probably not my place to say, but god, will everyone just chill the fuck out...

every other thread here is someone complaining about stuff... (and now its this one...)

just chill everyone

thanks

Matt

Re: will everyone just stop...
 

WORD!!!

I'm delighted with the release. I feel sorry for the people that haven't been able to get it right away due to credit card problems but today is Monday, the Lemon Crew are bound to be onto this like a flash, so yeah... you will get it.

As for the complaints about the bitrate, maybe I am just not enough of a purist, but in my humble opinion, I don't think my delicate little ear would be able to discern any real difference between 160kbps and 192kbps. Plus we have additional artistic material with the download this time, for the same money.

Once again the Lemonworld Team have done something nice for Dirts, which is to make this available a day earlier than advertised. Once again they are getting kicked in the teeth for it. If I were them I wouldn't bother giving us anything and would just treat us like the rest of the hoards, ungrateful buggers that we appear to be every time they make an effort for us!

Re: will everyone just stop...
 

...and its not just the download release either, we had the same with Tokyo... people not getting connected to servers with broadcasts, or not getting their copy of the broadcast split for them - whatever

it goes on...

the guys at UW are all pretty busy and do a great deal to please us mortal fans with their work...

i know some things can be better, but some people seem to want to be hand fed stuff on a plate straight away and its not right.

i just thought i'd let people know that i think its embarassing how some people go on and complain straight away, without thought or without trying to resolve stuff themselves, and i'm embarassed for all us Dirts.

as i said its probably not my place, but as a regular viewer here i thought i'd just say something... otherwise, like J said, we'll end up with nothing.

Re: will everyone just stop...
 

Whats with all this bitrate complaining? It all sounds good and well to me, surely theres a billion programmes on the net to change/alter it to whatever god like speed you want it to be.

Re: will everyone just stop...
 

But think about the other side of the argument - Underworld are dangling a lovely new release in front of us, but are effectively saying 'Here's our new release, but it will sound a bit rubbish'.

If no one cared about bitrate, why all the panic about getting CD copies of the Tokyo gig, when the 96kbps broadcast should have been fine for everyone?

I realise that you'll just think I'm a complete ass, but to some of us, quality does actually matter when buying stuff. I just don't see the reason for publishing something in a shitty bitrate - and yes, 160kbps is shitty. Especially when most other online shops sell a variety of formats, including lossless. What's the reason behind it?

Re: will everyone just stop...
 

Exactly. What's more, complaining for hardly any reason is a privilege of embittered pensioners. So, will everyone else please stop wetting their pants?

Why? Do you have the hi-fi and ears to hear a difference that matters? (I'm not trying to mock anyone, this question is meant seriously.) If yes, what would be an "acceptable" bitrate for your personal equipment?

Re: will everyone just stop...
 

Exactly.

I'm super appreciative to UW. Just confused at the choice of crap bitrate.

Re: will everyone just stop...
 

i been told from a source close to rick and karl that they do it on purpose to fuck us all off and they have it in their power to hand deliver a new cd to each of us in person but they don't fucking bother ! bastards !

Re: will everyone just stop...
 

Ok, I listen to the music on the computer via the following setup.

Powerbook/G4 Desktop -->iTunes --> M-Audio Transit 24/96 --> Headroom MicroDAC --> Mini^3PINT DIY Amp --> 26ga Silver/Switchcraft IC --> AKG K701

And the riverrun files are muddy, flat, and congested. Borderline intolerable (to me).

Interepret this however one may. But yes, there are people out there that most definitely can hear the difference. It's frustrating when you love a band like UW as much as I do and they release stuff that can't even be enjoyed at the level that (I think) it should be able to be enjoyed at.

:)

Re: will everyone just stop...
 

Yes, absolutely, I can hear a difference. It's not something that I can immediately pick out, but I do get a sense that something is missing. Listening to low bitrate mp3s for an extended time tends to give me a headache that I just don't get when listening to CD's or high-bitrate encoded music.

I'd consider 256 kbps CBR or Lame -APX / -V0 VBR to be a starting point for mp3 encoding. All of the digital downloads I've bought before (with the exception of the other RR's) have been either 320 kbps CBR or FLAC encoded, even if that has meant paying extra.

Maybe R&K, having produced the music, know that there is absolutely no difference made to the sound quality by having it encoded as 160 kbps, but experience tells me that the difference between this and a 320 kbps or lossless encode will be noticable by most people with a decent hi-fi.

Re: will everyone just stop...
 

this quality discussion is as old as recorded music,get over it ! its like expecting nike to design their trainers bearing in mind people with bunyons.

Re: will everyone just stop...
 

this is still the no moaning thread...

don't bring yer bitrate grips in here... if ya wanna moan about the recordings go to the moaning forums...


;)

Re: will everyone just stop...
 

no.....and no.

Re: will everyone just stop...
 

Ok then, what bitrate will we actually be entitled to moan at?:rolleyes:

What to you is acceptable...(kinda hard asking a guy who'd spend $80 for a piece of gum Karl chewed in 1998 though)

Re: will everyone just stop...
 

i don't see why people with valid concerns/arguements get flamed. if everyone took everything that they were given without questioning it, the world would be a far worse place...

it is a little disapointing that it got shifted down from 192 to 160 instead of up from 192 to 256.

Re: will everyone just stop...
 

Anymore threads that get started to moan about the fact that the mp3s are 160kbps/48khz instead of 192kbps/44.1khz will be merged into the RR3 sticky thread along with all the other moaning.

In the past, some Underworldlive.com releases have been wrongly encoded and then re-released later giving users the ability to re-download them. If this is one such mistake then I'm sure UW/management know about it and will rectify it.

Re: will everyone just stop...
 

Good to know that 320kbps mp3s stop the Iraq war.

Re: will everyone just stop...
 

As I said in the main thread. It is not about people having valid concerns and arguments. I took on board his argument, although I don't happen to agree with it. The reason why I flamed Mongoose (if indeed I did) is because he kept on and on and on about it. 8 posts out of his last 10 have been a whine about either this download or the previews for it. Enough moaning already. We get the point.

Re: will everyone just stop...
 

there is a difference between 'slightly disappointing' and what has been said by some people about this, though...

and its not just this... people have been moaning since last year about various elements of the UW output and its, like i said, pretty embarassing

there are ways to voice concerns and 'disappointments' but to 'flame' the band is just as bad, imo.

seriously though the bitrate thing - its not that big a deal is it really?

Re: will everyone just stop...
 

Guess we have no choice but not complain........try to start a valid thread about this one particular topic......take the time to convey your thoughts without just typing "GGGGRRRR FUCK FUCK FUCK" (which is what you REALLY want to do)........and watch (IMO) the valid thread disappear.

No free speech or opinions or complaints.....just give us your credit cards and take it up the pooper.:mad:

Guess this post will disappear too right?

Re: will everyone just stop...
 

your post was merged, not deleted.
so don't go totally noob into the eyes of people do read all and don't make people that don't think that there is no free speech.

Re: will everyone just stop...
 

Typing "grrrrr fuck fuck fuck" is precisely what you did.
Here - http://www.dirty.org/forums/showthre...3482#post43482
and here - http://www.dirty.org/forums/showthre...3483#post43483
and here - http://www.dirty.org/forums/showthre...3484#post43484

We get the message. There is no censorship.

None of your posts have been deleted. Simply merged into the main thread as it is valid in the overall context of the release. (At least I think that is why, I haven't asked the mod's reasoning behind it but it seems logical).

Re: will everyone just stop...
 

Really, didn't know.....then sorry for repeating myself. I felt that my concerns were being squashed and I got a little ticked. On a side note, the audio is relaxing (which you need after the frustration of trying to convert 48Mhz with limited time!)

Uggh. Okay I'll "stop" now.

Re: will everyone just stop...
 

Did I miss something? Was anyone else forced to give anyone a credit card? ;)

Re: will everyone just stop...
 

I think what's amazing about these releases and the complaining going on is how no one in UW is required to give/ sell cheaply likewise subject themselves to the rants and complaints of a bunch of fans.

They don't HAVE to do this.
We could be made to wait for 3 years for the next release.

They don't HAVE to release the live shows.
We could be made to wait 5 years for the next live release.

5 quid for new material is probably not even covering expenses. I mean how many have they sold?

say thanks and move on. don't buy it if you don't want to.

Re: will everyone just stop...
 

http://www.itsmybinky.com/

check it out if RR3 has left you unsatisfied.

Re: will everyone just stop...
 

have you actually heard it? i rip all my stuff at 256 VBR and i think this release sounds fantastic. i'd be willing to bet, if the 160kbps file was coverted to 192kbps, you'd not know the difference.

Re: will everyone just stop...
 

I'm floored at the shit I'm seeing posted here.

The sound is fine, don't test my ears kids. Those that are sound purists, go to your 5.1 surrounds and monkey forever with every level. You have no clue what listening is all about.

Re: will everyone just stop...
 

Yes, it is a big deal, at least to those of us who really care about sound quality. Not everyone listens carefully to notice the different between a CD and a 160 kbps MP3, and some people who do listen carefully won't notice the discrepancy because the equipment they're listening with muddles things enough to obscure the difference, but it doesn't take that sophisticated of stereo equipment for the degradation introduced by lower-bit-rate MP3 to become apparent.

What's really frustrating about this for some of us is that we were already disappointed with the first two RR releases to have them offered only in 192 kbps MP3 form, so to now have the new one released as a 160 kbps MP3 is kind of a slap-in-the-face. Obviously Karl and Rick care a great deal about sound quality, or they wouldn't make the music that they do; if it's really a matter of bandwidth then charge us an extra pound to cover the cost!


My biggest worry at this point is that I will have paid five pounds for each of these tracks and then have to pay another fifteen pounds to get them in decent (to me) sound quality when they're released on CD or FLAC a year from now, and then I'll be pissed off about feeling slightly scammed by an artist I really want to support wholeheartedly. At this point it's looking like either that will happen or possibly RR will never be available in a high-quality format (which would obviously suck). If it was coming from 99.9% of the artists out there, it would be par for the course, but I just expect better from Underworld, I think. Their music is great, but they've also historically shown an integrity and foresight that is all-too-rare in the music world.

Re: will everyone just stop...
 

hmm. i think that some people here get it, and some don't. some are younger...some are older. some know the difference between complaining, and noting a possible error....and how to do either properly. some people still listen to the chemical brothers....some don't. some people here have something to say, and others, like myself, have nothing to say.

click.

Re: will everyone just stop...
 

You do understand that to get things at the level that you think it should be able to be enjoyed at, that on top of having a super-fast bitrate that the work would've had to have been mastered, right? I mean, it's obvious that this hasn't been mastered, and even I do final mixdowns that sound better (from time to time :) ) That would've been rather expensive, you know.

This has been a project that they've done independently; something they foot the bill for. Who's to say that they didn't just go with 160 because 192 is bigger and more bandwidth used on their server = more money?

Not that you don't have your right to an opinion (personally I think it's the unwaivering UW apologists that get under my skin more) but I think what you're asking for are things that Rick & Karl would've had to pay for themselves and as such, when you consider that 99% of bands don't do this much for their fans, this can't be that bad... right?

Re: will everyone just stop...
 

Mastering used to be expensive. These days you can do almost all of it on a decent desktop computer using (relatively) inexpensive software. That isn't to say that anybody can do it well, because some talent and knowledge is still needed no matter how sophisticated the software, but I doubt there's any shortage of the required skills or tools in this case.

In any event, how much work is put into mastering the recording should have no impact on whether it's released as a 160 kbps MP3 or a 320 kbps MP3 (or a lossless FLAC, for that matter).

Re: will everyone just stop...
 

99.9% of the artists out there don't even attempt anything close to what R&K have been attempting. Every now and then you get a track on Myspace or a lo-quality streaming preview, but you never see anyone out there releasing 90 minutes of experimental, envelope-pushing stuff inbetween albums, nor do you ever see a band deviate as far from a comfort zone with reference to style and sound that R&K have with these 3 releases.

So, I don't understand where you're getting your precedents from, I guess I'm saying.

P.S. - I wouldn't be at all shocked if R&K knew less about mastering than you assume they do. A harddrive full of RTAS plugs and a rack of gear doesn't make a good engineer, and being wicked at putting together beats and crafting that sick sound out of a Nord Lead doesn't make you a good engineer either...

Re: will everyone just stop...
 

Well, like most of us I am a little disappointed in the bitrate but I'm a fanatic so I'll take whatever I can get. Although some of you can't tell the difference the thing is that some of us can, and that there is no reason to release something in such a low bitrate. Personally, the pictures and whatever don't mean a lot to me, I only care about the music, and 5 pounds for 30 minutes of it isn't exactly the greatest deal...maybe it's fair, but for that I would definitely expect it to be close to lossless. I really doubt it's a bandwidth thing...for a 50 MB file bandwidth isn't a big deal. Remember that allofmp3 site that made money by selling MP3s for one cent a megabite?

I guess the real reason why it's a disappointment is because obviously they've been working on these tracks for some amount of time, and put a lot of work into them, so encoding them into a 160 kbps MP3 and leaving that as the ONLY format you can get the songs in just seems careless.

But that's just one little bear's opinion...



That's less true than you think. There are a lot of artists who try to give a lot to the fans, and although it's true that this new format is pretty unique, you have to remember that their last album came out in 2002 and the next one might not be until 2007. So yeah, other bands don't release stuff like this in-between albums, they just release more albums. And as for the comfort zone thing...personally there's only one thing that struck me as decidedly non-UW (the ending of this here release), and bands deviate from their comfort zones and release experimental stuff a lot...personally I can't even call this stuff very experimental and it's certainly not envelope-pushing. I like the music, but let's not make sweeping generalities about how 99.9% of bands out there don't do things like this...

Re: will everyone just stop...
 

+++ No moaning in here, only claims +++
I want a diamond pacifier with the Mysterons Mix! Maybe that would stop moaner(s).

Re: will everyone just stop...
 

My bad. I keep forgetting that UW are just like everyone else except that everyone else does everything better. ;)

Some examples would be nice, because all of this stuff that you say everyone is doing, I haven't seen it done to the degree that they've pulled off...

Re: will everyone just stop...
 

it's a problem with you people feeling really fucking entitled.



AGREED.

it's like there isn't even music there, it's all about what you imagine is "missing" because it's not to your hi-def, number-obsessive needs.
we just got 85 minutes of music. with another album coming next year and 2 soundtracks.
shut
the
living
fuck
up

Re: will everyone just stop...
 

Why do they have to shut the fuck up? I mean, people pay ALOT of money to hear these releases, you know? Mortgages get re-financed, meals skipped, cars repossessed every day because of how expensive these releases are. These people pay money that would make King Solomon blush and damnit, they deserve exactly what they expect! Shit, for the price I paid for this release I'm kinda pissed that the sound isn't 3d and that they didn't send me some sort of new 3d headphones to listen to this with!

And worst of all, they had no choice. Was anyone else freaked when they woke up this morning to the sight of Rick holding a gloc to their heads? I never knew that Rick was so gangsta. DAMN.

Re: will everyone just stop...
 

[COLOR=Purple]wow






















....................
[/COLOR]

Re: will everyone just stop...
 

exactly....