Live 8
 

hello everyone.
Live 8 is having a concert here near Toronto Canada.
the following, makes me sick.
http://www.pulse24.com/Showbiz/Top_S...3-003/page.asp

yeah...i was the one who called this television station, to blow the whistle on Craigslist.org...
little has been done to stop it.
craigslist.org , is still allowing posts, for people to sell tickets....free tickets, for upwards of $500 CAN each.
my question...in any of the other cities holding a Live 8 concert, has anyone here seen the same greedy bullshit trend ?

Re: Live 8
 

vvvvvventuuurrrre caaaaapitalism.
scalpers are souless whether it's for Live 8 or U2, but i guess that what happens when HUNDREDS of people give you hateful looks when you're standing there like a schmuck trying to con another schmuck.

except maybe you'd be the rich schmuck, but... OMG PINK FLOYD.


HA!

Re: Live 8
 

Bob should go round and bitch slap those mother fuckers:(

Re: Live 8
 

ive contacted city tv...house of blues canada ( promoter ) and Live 8 .
ive chastized Craig ( owner of craigslist ), but to no avail.
go figure...Sir Bob calls ebay...tells them to ban sales, and they listen.
shame the other sites ( craigslist.org ... adpost.com ) wont follow suit.

greed...an ugly trait.
rick...karl...your thoughts ?

Re: Live 8
 

Here's my suggestion then - don't ever sell anything that was given to you. Your premise is that people are making too much money on the sales of these tickets, or that they shouldn't be selling them at all. But what is too much? $5? $500? I've always felt that it was an obvious right to make money by capitalizing on demand, even if the item in demand was originally given away for free. A sucker is born every minute but without a lollipop to chase, they're just another face in the crowd...

I think Geldof's a fucking idiot personally - he gives away free tickets (which of course all get gobbled up) and then tells people not to make money on the sales of those tickets. And meanwhile, since he's not selling tickets, he's not making money either, he's just preaching about a cause. Yeah right you fucking dickhead, I'm sure that African children are pleased to know that you have the opportunity to make enough money to make Bill Gates blush and you could send it to them, but instead... all you want to do is preach away instead of also sending money. Face reality Bob, Money talks -- not words alone. God damn, what a waste of opportunity!!

Me personally, I would castrate myself to see the original line-up of Pink Floyd. And if a $500 ticket comes my way... I very well might spend the money.

P.S. - Scalpers are smart, if they know that there's an idiot that's willing to pay what they ask.

Re: Live 8
 

if i won some tickets i'd go and watch the gig, but...

if i won two lots of tickets - i'd sell em for a big fuck off profit...

i bet the bands playing won't be donating their hard earned record sales for the next ten years to stop world povety....

Re: Live 8
 

Exactly. I recognize that a big fuck-all concert and a huge show of solidarity may show the G8 that people are willing to deal with the rampant greed that perpetuates African poverty, maybe even enough to actually vote the G8 leaders out of power. And god forbid those stiffs lose their almighty power.

Geldof could've sold tickets though, ramped up a huge donation campaign (which I believe that he has so, big up's to him on that), sold merchandise, et cetera... and could've had a big check to send off to the oft-forgotten continent. That's where he failed, and that's where I feel that Live 8 in general is less about the cause, and more about the fact that Geldof and Bono have a huge God complex and all that this concert is going to do is massage their egos.

Re: Live 8
 

gotta agree...Bob Geldof is getting irrisponsible in his campaigns...first off he rather foolishly suggested, live on TV, that hackers should bring down Ebay...forgetting thats where some people make their living, and i don't mean the ticket scalpers, some people run their business and work entirely on Ebay...its alright to condone illegal computer hacking but not alright to sell free tickets legally on a website...

secondly, he has now suggested that we go and get a load of french people by boat, like we need that...what they gonna do when they get here

thirdly, he's asked millions of people to converge on a city that probably can't cope with them...and you know that all the tree hugging, hippy, anti capitalists will be there too causing major trouble...and i think he secretly wants that...

fourthly, he has suggested that because the gig is free that 'it'll be easy to get in' at Hyde Park if you 'just turn up'...talk about asking for trouble...is Geldof not providing security or something because its a free gig?

the man is a loon...and although he is working for a worthy cause, his motives are genuine (he personally has nothing to gain), his methods are very questionable...and if you think that some £6bn worth of Rock stars are gonna do anything to stop world poverty - then i think you underestimate the power of the worlds leaders...

don't get me wrong - i would have gone to Hyde Park, had i won some tickets and i will be watching on Saturday on TV, but not because i think it will do anything to make me more aware of World Poverty...i am aware...it sucks...but admitting that won't help...i'm sorry to say, but I will only be watching to see some decent bands perform live...and i believe thats what 90% of the people going will be doing...why else are they forking out $500+ for tickets...because its a unique once in a life time event, and not because its gonna change the world....

Re: Live 8
 

bob geldoff - cock.



nice idea about the concerts - i don't care if somebody who has spent their contribution to the event sells their ticket, nor should bob - he's had the money he wanted from it. as far as hyde park goes - what's this about releasing more tickets? what gives bob? why not just open up the park? if you don't care about edinburgh, why care about hyde park?

and as for the boats to france - that's a cockheaded thing to ask - sail small boats across the world's busiest shipping lane to pick up a bunch of protestors (will there be anybody there...?!) that could safely have caught a ferry? and then what will they do? if they can't get from france to england, they're fucked if they're going to get to edinburgh - it's much further? he really doesn't think some things through...

Re: Live 8
 

should get on well with Bonio then ;)

Re: Live 8
 

This isn't about scalping, it's about human fucking decency. Exploiting other people's misfortune for your own profit is the behaviour of scum-sucking fuckwads.

It's just plain fucking nasty, and Bob's reaction was proportionate, and it worked; eBay pulled the sales, good on them. A pox on the cunts trying to sell the tickets in the first place, let's hope they all end up poor and homeless and in need of some charity.

Simon

Re: Live 8
 

...and how are people misfortunate that they have $500 and want to spend it on a ticket to a concert?

Listen, Geldof gave the tickets away and like Future Proof said, any chance of a good and solid revenue stream that could be in turn donated to the people of Africa is moot. So, it doesn't matter who pays and who profits, the most misfortunate of all won't bee seeing a dime from the sales of those tickets. And that, Mr. Fish... is what I would call misfortunate.

Re: Live 8
 

Word, Simon.

This isn't about raising money - it is about raising awareness and ultimately trying to influence an economic structure that has leeched all that is good from developing countries to the so-called developed West for centuries (including human resources, in the form of slavery). Then we sit back and tut-tut when holocausts like Rwanda and Darfur occur, thinking that sticking a quid in a collection box will somehow make it better. All it makes better is our tiny, withered consciences. It is not about money, it is about politics.

The Western world draws lines on a map to suit our purposes, empowers one tribe to the detriment of another, then raises its hands in horror when it all goes pear-shaped. Imagine what would happen if some superpower came along and decided that the Welsh were to be the ruling "race" in the UK and recentralised parliament and all economic infrastructure in Cardiff, because it suited its needs? If suddenly, to be English, or Scottish, or Irish meant that you were a second-class citizen, no longer allowed to occupy government posts, be a member of parliament? This is what we have done time and time again in other countries. And it always, always, comes back to bite us on the ass.

And the government aid that is provided to less-developed countries is almost exclusively tied up with structural adjustment policies - don't build more hospitals, build more roads and infrastructure so Western companies can transport their goods better. Don't spend more on education, spend it on tax-breaks for Trans-National Corporations who can set up factories with dirty technology and "employ" people who, erstwhile, worked quite happily on the land to provide for their families, and now have had their land "privatised" and have to work 15 hour days to earn enough money for a bowl of rice a day.

Remember the multi-billion Tanzanian Air Traffic Control System? How many Tanzanians jet off for their summer hols? It is to facilitate Western development in their country, nothing more.

This is about raising people's conciousness as to what exactly the G8 are doing in Africa and the price ordinary, hard-working people have to pay as a result of our incessant meddling.

As for the march on Edinburgh - well, 2,000,000 marched through London in February 2003 and the sky didn't fall on our heads.

Good on Bob, and Bono, I say. Someone has got to do it.





Wow! The ranting season is open! :D

I've missed Dirty ;)

Re: Live 8
 

...but we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the money wouldn't hurt. So why not do both, and employ the means to accomplish each cause at every turn?

Saint Bob... PLEASE. He's really doing a half-assed job with making this thing as efficient and effective as possible. If talk wasn't so cheap and was so effective, I think Saint Bono (BARF) could've convinced the G8 by himself to do his biddings. So yeah, please talk away... and then send some euros to the starving African children as well.

Re: Live 8
 

Feel free to point out where I said anything about the muppets who spent $500? It's the cunts that sold the tickets that are the problem, not the idiots that bought them. There'll always be some dumb fuck easily separated from their cash, and fair enough, they've paid no less than anyone else and will contribute to the atmosphere, the experience and gain understanding etc. But people are making a conscious decision to exploit the situation. To take advantage of the scarcity of tickets to line their own pockets.

There is such a thing as personal responsibility, there is such a thing as decency and there are such things as principles. The people profiteering out of this are nasty fuckwits who lack any of the above.

What is 'misfortunate'? Is it an americanism? Misfortune and unfortunate.

Why blame Geldorf for the actions of others? The tickets were offered for a fair price in a fair way. They weren't exclusive, they weren't restrictive, they just relied on you being lucky. Sometimes it just isn't about money, it's about doing what's right.

Simon

Re: Live 8
 

Fair enough, Mr. Fish. It is a cruel, and IMHO needlessly so. But sir, I'm not an idealist... I'm a realist. You have to protect yourself from being had, because whether you like it or not there are people out there that make their living out of conning people. But the people that bought the tickets were not conned, nor were they even sollicited. The buyers of those $500 tickets sorted out the seller, on EBay and other avenues. They wanted that ticket, they wanted to see Pink Floyd play for the first time in 24 years, and they were quite prepared to pay $500 to make that happen. The sale, quite simply put... would not have occurred, lest the buyers opened EBay, looked up Live8 tickets, logged into their account, and bid for them. Supply and demand, Mr. Fish... it's the American way, and quite obviously the English way as well.

...and doing what's right? Oh yeah, I know what you mean. You don't want to go to the show, so give away the tickets. I'm sure that Pink Floyd would be happy to know that you gave away $500 that could feed your children, bail your ass out of debt (of which none of the organizers know NOTHING about, except the cause they're peddling for), paid your wife's medical bills... don't judge the seller. And FWIW, here's my take on life, in general... when you can, be Utilitarian. When you can't... fuck everyone else, save yourself. Money keeps food on your plate, Mr. Fish... it's ALL about money.

You know, I went to Chicago a couple of weeks ago to see Doves pay, and spent $500 over the course of that evening. Had a SMASHING fun time too. But tell me... are the people that I gave my money away to thieves and con artists? Or am I a glutton with too much money to spend? ;)

Re: Live 8
 

No. If you don't want to go to the show, don't bid for the tickets in the first place. It's pretty simple. If you've got tickets you no longer need, do the decent thing and sell them to someone who wants them more for face value.

Which is why the world is fucked and getting worse. The more people like you there are, the less chance there is for all of us to survive, you included. I'm alright jack and pull the ladder up behind you. That way lies poverty and conflict.

Swoosh, the sound of the point going over your head. The Doves are a commercial enterprise, Live8 isn't. The Doves are about making money for The Doves, Live8 is about raising awareness, pressuring world leaders and getting some money to people who deserve it a fuck of a lot more than you, your wife or your kids. Apples and oranges.

Simon

Re: Live 8
 

i think i agree with all of you.

that is, Geldof is a tard and scalpers suck.

i think the real problem is live aid/8 itself.
it's just so damn illogical.

Re: Live 8
 

I understand the system - it's not even about the music, it's about raising publicity to raise awareness. And that by itself is not bad, it's actually good. But if you're trying to raise awareness, why have tickets at all? Why limit the people that can go to the shows and therefore, limit the number of people that you can reach? It is like his system is cannibalizing itself.

I don't like scalpers either, but I think that if Bob wants to point fingers and start throwing condemnations, he outta start in front of his bathroom mirror for making such a fucked up and flawed mess.

Re: Live 8
 

Different nicknames, same arguments. :)

Re: Live 8
 

Tickets are limited as there's a finite amount of space? How does setting a limit on the number of tickets (which would be the case for any other concert) limit the number of people that the Live 8 message is able to reach? These concerts and the political aims/fallout have been headline news for the last few weeks. The London gig will be broadcast globally to an audience of hundreds of millions, they're estimating 28 million will be watching the BBC feed in the UK alone. Where is the limit on the number of people that the Live 8 message can reach?

Re: Live 8
 

It depends on whether or not you think that the average person picking up the paper is going "OOOH a big concert for African poverty" and flipping to the sports page, or if they're "OOOH a big concert for African poverty, I want details! And stats! And action plans for the G8!"

I'd put a wager on the notion that people are doing the former more than the latter. Cool its on TV however, I hadn't heard that yet so thanks for letting me know.

Re: Live 8
 

What you don't seem to appreciate is that there are some basic standards that should be incontrovertible.

Sometimes people have to take responsibility for their own actions, not whine like a bitch about Bob Geldorf and feeding the kids, and do the RIGHT THING.

Simon

Re: Live 8
 

Simon, you don't have to preach to me, taking care of the situation in Africa should be on any respectable country and person's high priority list.

Just because I choose to punch holes through Bob's "plan of action" doesn't mean I don't take the African situation seriously. Fact is, Bob can do with his status a lot more than I can do, as an unfamous, not-so-rich commoner. And you hope that people like Bob, when they want to do something, its as successful as can be. But he's making an ass out of himself in the media, and I think that his system in general has some flaws in it that will prevent it from being maximally effective. That's what is heartbreaking.

Re: Live 8
 

The number of tickets available for the concert also has no bearing on an individual's level of interest in current affairs. It's not just newspapers, it's radio, TV, internet, cinema adverts, people are talking about the issue. There will be millions of people watching the concerts, the MPH message will be abundantly clear to all of them. All of that will contribute to increase the pressure for politicians to do something about the sorry mess, rather than sitting around doing fuck all (just because they stand to gain nothing other than doing the right thing).

Edit: this thread should have been created in world.

Re: Live 8
 

Oh bullshit.

Whatever Geldorf's personality problems, he, unlike the ruthless cunts profiteering on live8 tickets, is part of the solution, not part of the problem.

As for making 'an ass of himself', he has done nothing that hasn't raised awareness of Live8, and the reason Live8 is happening. Would that we were all so successful in achieving our aims when making 'asses' of ourselves.

Simon

Re: Live 8
 

Unfortunately Simon there are too many people lacking decency and principles. if there weren't then we wouldn't probably have to have an 'awareness' festival and africa would be in a better state than it is (i'm talking about western exploitation/crooked government type thing). Unfortunately when you get a line up containing PF together again after all this time then people are gonna pay top buck for tickets .....whatever the reason for the concert. The only way to stop ticket touts at any sort of event is to not sell tickets and make people queue.........this i know is not practical most of time but its the only way i can see to stop it.

Re: Live 8
 

WHOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOO

i've just won some tickets to LIVE 8!!!!!


suckas....

i'm off to Hyde park!!!!


fantastic!!!

what time are Underworld on?

Re: Live 8
 

I'd be cautious to champion people of authority who only do "good enough" - that kind of marginalization and acceptance for mediocrity is exactly what got us here in the first place. A good example is America - everyone was high up on Dubya after 9/11, and look at us now... :)

What can I say -- I reserve the right to be a critic. And even though I've made it sound like I'm a selfish bastard, i'm actually not. The means of obtaining tickets aside (sorry, still haven't been sold on the idea of what is wrong with buying the tickets)... one of my favorite people in the world, one of my heroes, is a Jesuit priest who did 5 years of missionary work in Uganda. And the picture that he can paint for you... fact is, I *really* respect this cause! And I want everything to go right.

Re: Live 8
 

We always said he was a useless cunt, before and after 9/11, but still y'all vote for him...

As before, buying 'meh', who cares, but selling....? Jaysus, for once, it'd be nice to think the world wasn't going to hell in a handbasket, but it is. And all the decent people who stand by and do nothing are helping it on its way. It's just not enough to say that you're not a selfish bastard, sometimes walking the walk is the only option.

Simon

Re: Live 8
 

And I still don't understand where the corruption is. Ah whatever, the argument's going in circles. Good havin' dialogue with ya, Mr. Fish.

Re: Live 8
 

Are you against capitalising itself, or is this an isolated incident for you?


Rubbish; there's no fair way to do it other than the old fashioned box office sales. The method employed relied on gambling, and I wonder how many idiots are opening up terrifying mobile phone bills this month. There's no argument that the method of obtaining tickets doesn't fit the definition of "gambling", do you condone it? Especially a gambling competition that was unrestricted and open to any child or similarly irresponsible person with access to a mobile phone.

Re: Live 8
 

I won my ticket in an 'email' competition - cost to me :£0.00

number of emails sent: 1

i'll let you know if it was worth my while going on Sunday when i get back;)

Re: Live 8
 

I note you haven't grown a brain in the break.

Who cares. It's irrelevant.

Are they being a bit stupid? Maybe.

Are they being mercenary cunts? No. Obviously.

Any fuckwit can see there's a difference between trying to buy a charity ticket and trying to exploit the sale of a charity ticket for personal gain.

Oh. Hang on. My bad, there's 2 fuckwits who can't see the difference.

Simon

PS Ally, I've got better things to do than argue with you, so don't be insulted if I don't bother getting involved in your childish little games.

Re: Live 8
 

I have to say I think you're wrong on this.

Sure, he may be making an "ass out of himself" in the media, but he has already achieved a major goal, which is to publicise this event globally. The fact that we are discussing it on here can be taken as a barometer for the level of discussion that is going on certainly throughout the UK. Ever heard of the old advertising saying that the only bad publicity is no publicity?

His goal from day 1 has been to raise public awareness of the appalling way in which Western governments treat Africa (and other less developed countries/continents). How many teenagers had any inkling about the unfair balance of trade prior to this event? Only those who took an interest in international politics and economics. Now we have a swathe of youngster sporting white wrist-bands and texting for tickets. If it only makes a small percentage of them start thinking twice about any of this, then Geldof has succeeded.

Also, I think the reasons that Geldof didn't want to go down the road of making this a put-your-hand-in-your-pocket event are three-fold:

Firstly, certainly in the UK, we have been suffering from compassion fatigue - people just aren't so fired up to giving money to charity as they were back in the Live Aid days. I don't know whether this is a generational thing, in that younger people seem to be far more materialisitic than I ever was, or whether it is because there are simply too many ads on cable/satellite TV for charities of all shapes and sizes now, and people have become tired of them.

Secondly, in my view, collecting money for starving kids misses the point entirely if, on the one hand, we are donating millions while, on the other hand, Western banks are leeching back double the amount that has been raised in debt service charges. I used to have some precise figures on Ethiopian debt servicing at the time the Live Aid project was going on - if I find them I will post them.

Finally, this is also about people-power. Governments won't shift as long as they feel their positions are safe and people will keep voting for them anyway. However, as far as the UK is concerned, Bliar already got a bloody nose over Iraq, and is down to a 71 seat majority in parliament largely because of it. A huge demonstration today will remind him that his hold on power is far more tenuous now than it ever was, and if he putzes around any more with meaningless sound-bites instead of taking real action, his days will be numbered.

And frankly, I would rather be remembered for making an ass of myself in the media to bring about real economic change in some of the poorest countries in the world than for being the idiot who took our country into a war we didn't want and ignored the people AGAIN by refusing to take action to relieve Africa of its debt burden.

GO BOB!!!!!! :D

Re: Live 8
 

I have mixed feelings about this. Yes, it has generated a lot of publicity, and we have had op. eds. about unfair trade restrictions and protectionism, debt relief, and arguably justified vitriol about the EU and g8 being "protections rackets and old boy networks". But in terms of column inches we've had a lot more discussion of the line-up, whether 15 minutes per set is enough, how Dido will be doing a Phil Collins by flying between venues and even a rag-led campaign to get Status Quo on stage. Most folk I've spoken to aren't all that more informed than they were before. At least someone's giving it a bash, though.

Those wristbands that teenagers are wearing... you can buy blank ones all over the place, can you believe that? They're a fashion item, like "Scoubie Dous". And people have been caught selling the pink breast cancer ones at 150% profit.

I wonder if the argument regarding secondary trade in these charity items isn't a sort of a meta-argument about exploitation and profit.

Re: Live 8
 

Yeah and opening your address with name-calling is the higher form of intelligence.. :rolleyes: I asked a question.




It's not irrelevant because it's what we're debating. I disagree that the system is ideal, so I'm a fuckwit? The system isn't fair because it capitalised on a well documented and long studied weakness in people. In turn I suggested that the old fashioned way of a first-come-first-served sale is the fairest way to have done it... You stop it with the childishness Simon.

Re: Live 8
 

Neat feature.

Re: Live 8
 

Hahaha. You know, I'm a week out from joining (give or take a day or three) and I'm still getting my bearings, but I'm starting to gather that this place runs just like any other forum. That being, there are two types of people - one that argues because they are interested towards the outcome, and one that argues because they have some intrinsic need to establish some sort of dominance for themselves, and inferiority towards their debate partner. And all that calling me a fuckwit does is show me that hey, it doesn't matter if you agree or not. Calling me names isn't going to get you any level of meaningful respect. At least when I retracted from the debate, I was cordial enough to show my appreciation for our dialogue. But hey, that's what happens when you get close to 30. And I bumped your reputation too.

So if I am a fuckwit, will you do me a favor and put me on your ignore list as well? Its probably better for the both of us (and our blood pressure). Thanks for your understanding.

Re: Live 8
 

Keep arguing straw men and you'll get there.

Ally is a troll (cf any thread with 'cock' in the title) and outlived any value many moons ago.

You've got some way to go before you affect my blood pressure, of that I can assure you.

Simon