Transformers 2: Really?
 

Michael Bay's latest steaming pile of garbage, "Transformers 2", has made $200 million in 5 days. That's on track to demolish recent movies like "Star Trek" and "Up", and put it in the company of classics like "Star Wars", "E.T." and "Spider Man".

Now I work in the film industry, and the success of this trash along with many other similar stories has really been making me question what the point of staying in this industry might be. Is the disconnect between quality films and what the public wants to see really that bad? And worse yet, how do I argue with executives for good story decisions to be made when clearly, shitty story decisions can net them hundreds of millions of dollars?

The public whines out of one side of their mouths that Hollywood is only pumping out crappy movies, but doesn't that same public realize that when they gobble that crap up with the other side of their mouths, they have very literally made it that much harder for us to make any quality films? There are tons of us working in this industry that are very capable of making great films, but there's no way we can do it when "creative" executives with backgrounds in accounting and marketing have successes like this that they can point at in defense of their idiotic demands.

Thanks a lot, jerk-wads. You deserve every shitty movie you get. :mad:

Re: Transformers 2: Really?
 

There is no doubt that this movie, storyline wise is crap. However, I saw it anyway. And the reason I saw it was more because of the over the top special effects. Mainly, I wanted to see big Transformers fighting each other, and I wanted to see it in a theater so it would be really big and sound cool. I had to watch the first one on my 13 inch Macbook, so I wanted to indulge. Sorry.

I agree with you though about the movie industry and everything. I am just saying that I knew this movie was crap going it, but I still went just for the eye candy.

I doubt that many others have this opinion though. My sister and her boyfriend went and saw it at midnight opening day, and came out saying it was such an great movie etc. I equate them, sadly, with being the typical American movie goer, so it is typical that Transformers 2 would break all the records.

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its tough because a lot of people, esp right now, need escapism. and they'll watch anything that remotely promises escapism, even so far as going into it with cash in hand already knowing they'll feel dirty about themselves afterwords.

The movie has a 20% rotten rating at rottentomatoes.com. Of course the nay-sayers include the snobs, but the majority of movie reviewers are every day people who like movies, meaning they are *generally speaking* a close sample space of the population at large. 80% think it sucks. Which means at least 50% of the american ticket purchasers also think it sucks, rounding down for the rubes and the great unwashed. But nothing sucks worse than being unemployed, north korea, global warming, and the fact that there probably is no god afterall. So the warm afterglow of comfort we all felt as a kid watching transformers as a cartoon kicks in and everyone gets in line.

So half of all ticket purchasers are actually enjoying it. 30% of those are basically comic and sci fi whores who would watch whatever bilge comes out of lucas studios. and the other 20% are in love with megan fox. There's actually a sizable interestion on this venn diagram but we're just talking shit so who cares.

so basically my point is that yes: marketing/demographics is perfectly suitable for creating successful movies, financially speaking.

Re: Transformers 2: Really?
 

Shut up Stranglet. :p

Re: Transformers 2: Really?
 

People like robots. People like Megan Fox.

There's a story?

Re: Transformers 2: Really?
 

Sean, I'd like to comment that Sony Pictures comes out with maybe one or two decent movies a year, that I'd want to see, yet they are still making BANK. They seem to make films that are very "safe", and not too risky. Warner Brothers on the other hand seems to consistently put out films that seem less "safe" but still make bank.

For example, Ive been working on Art of War 3, which is a complete crap film. They're spending quite a bit of dough to release it on DVD in many different languages, all over the world. They wouldn't knowingly do this if they thought they wouldn't make money on it. Out there, somewhere in the world, people are just eating this stuff up.

I know people who like very simple movies, and they just don't really read that much into the films. They just kind of go along with them. The best word I can use is, they are simple people.

I guess this means I totally agree with you.

Re: Transformers 2: Really?
 

Sean, what part of the industry do you work in?

I hardly watch any films these days. If it ain't a sequel to something that made a tiny profit, it'll be a modern day adaptation of something or an American version of a decent foreign film.

I never saw the first film and don't intend to see the second one.

Re: Transformers 2: Really?
 

Animated films. Specifically, I'm heading up the story department on a film at Sony Pictures called "Hotel Transylvania", so the director and I spend a lot of time debating story decisions with executives. It's by far the worst part of my job, and the success of crap films like Transformers 2 make it even harder to convince them that we'll be better off with a great story than we'd be with cliches and formulaic story devices. Frankly, it's starting to get to the point where I don't know how much longer executives will feel artistic input is even necessary as a driving force behind creating films any more.

Bless you, Dirty0900.....bless you.

Absolutely. I love Steve Martin, but Pink Panther AND Pink Panther 2? I mean holy crap.....

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Wow... I thought the movie was poorly directed and unnecessarily confusing. I'm glad I saw it on my 13 inch macbook... It would have been intolerable in theaters.

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i must be one of the few who enjoyed the movie for what it is. i was hoping T4 would have been THE blockbuster film this year, but that's a movie that failed on the weight of it trying so hard to be serious.

i think if TF2 had some Stan Bush music playing in some of the fight scenes, my inner 10 year old self would have jizzed pants.

Re: Transformers 2: Really?
 

Yea, I saw this movie tonight and it was absolutely terrible. Every single detail from mom eating pot brownies despite the label on the bag being very clear, to how the fight in Freedom City from TF1 could even be spun into a cover-up... yea, this was an all-time low for the kind of money it's making. Sam went to robot heaven when he died for chrissakes!

The problem with the movie Idiocracy is that it becomes a bit more true with each passing month.

Re: Transformers 2: Really?
 

Dammit people!!! Please stop going to see this assload of crap!!!!

Re: Transformers 2: Really?
 

i didnt really want to see this until the reviews of how meta its awfulness is started coming in. gave me speedracer syndrome of 'it must be this bizarre orgy of alienating bullshit that has everyone leaving the theatre confused and delerious"

but i didnt see speedracer either because there's almost no movie that can be that bracing in its own filth. its probably just a fucking chore to sit through. the bank this is making has me confused too. it's a sequel. and it's always looked like a shitty sequel. no one likes shia thebeef no matter how hard he tries. i get the megan fox bit to an extent but shes no record breaker.

sean what are some of the ridiculous things they say?
"it needs a DOG! did you see UP? you cant have a movie about a HOUSE or a CASTLE without a DOG."

the commercials we see before the movie starts where "it takes a lot of calls to make a movie but one to mess it up" even acknowledge how shit deteriorates through people who have no clue

Re: Transformers 2: Really?
 

Oh, but YOU'RE thebeef, to me. :rolleyes:

I like that Shai LeBoufe(sp?) kid.

Re: Transformers 2: Really?
 

i have not seen Speed Racer either, but if i were to go by the reviews of the people who did enjoy it, i would say that the only difference between the two would be is that TF2 made money.

Re: Transformers 2: Really?
 

myrrh and kagenaki koe get it. this movie was fucking awesome. it was fucking awesome because fucking optimus prime shot the fucking faces off some fucking decepticons.

also, fucking megan fox was bent over a fucking motorcycle in like the first fucking 5 minutes.

sean, you're being a cunt. T2 (yes, T2 now stands for Transformers 2) is just as much a work of art as your cartoons. fuck,

the official top ten reasons why T2 was fucking balls out awesome:

1) optimus fucking prime got jet wings and a big fucking cannon and fucked shit up all over the desert.

2) megan fox looks like she is going to fuck everything on set all the time. she's also sweaty and slo-mo boob running all the fucking time.

3) bumble bee fucking wrecked shit on some fucking decepticon in egypt.

4) the fucking constructorcons are in the fucking movie.

5) sam died and went to FUCKING ROBOT HEAVEN.

6) jive talking nigger-bot twins.

7) fucking soundwave is fucking in this movie.

8) HUMAN LOOKING FUCKING DECEPTICON WITH PREHENSILE TONGUE.

9) optimus prime was fucking ice cold killer in this. he personally snapped like 15 fuckers in half and was all like "CHEAP TIN FUCK"

10) this will be out on bluray soon and we'll be able to pause and zoom in on megan fox and maybe see her pussy lips.

so there. I'm glad i could put this to rest.

sean - the reason this movie made more money than yours will is because it was fucking cock-snapping crazy awesome.

also, who are you to judge what a quality film is, while looking down your nose at 'the public' who pay fat wads of cash hand over fist to see this OBVISOUSLY FUCKING HORRID movie. quality is subjective. maybe your view of quality is actually fucking cack that no-one want to pay to see, while this is fucking life changing cinema.

maybe.

Re: Transformers 2: Really?
 

^^ He's Michael fucking Bay, people!


Sean - I think this brief piece gives an insight into why we get what we do. Concerning Pixar's Up:

But thankfully:

Someone pat that man on the back.

-

Another piece of interest, this one from a couple of years ago and the first Transformers film:

(Link)

Re: Transformers 2: Really?
 

I wish I could give you concrete examples without disclosing key story points in the movie I'm working on, but it's hard. Actually, here's one - the character of Spock was raised by us in a recent meeting with executives (who shall remain nameless) as an example of an engaging, compelling, conflicted character who struggles to fit into both worlds he's a part of. Being raised as a half human on the planet Vulcan forced him to suppress his human, emotional characteristics, and when among humans, he now comes across as cold, overly logical and relatively out of place. But from time to time, his emotions bubble to the surface, putting him in totally awkward personal situations, but also highlighting the fact that his cross-breeding makes him uniquely qualified to do stuff that no other character is capable of. So essentially, something he's always lived with as if it's a weakness can also be one of his greatest strengths, and he struggles with that conflict.

The executive response to this was "no no no - Spock embraces his differences, and they allow him to fit perfectly into both worlds." After a brief, awkward silence, one of us on the creative side answered, "but in the new movie, you actually see him getting teased for being half human as a kid, and then it takes his older self telling him not to bury his emotions so deeply to get him to even begin accepting the idea of it". The executive response to this was "well sure, in the movie, yes", to which I replied, "it's that way in the old series, too. He's always super-logical, denying his emotional side until some life or death situation forces it out of him. And even then there was always a comedic back and forth between Spock and McCoy afterwards where Spock would cover up his emotional display with some kind of logical explanation..." at which point I was cut off by this executive with "no, that's not right. I'm a trekkie, I know this stuff really well." So I said, "okay, I guess we disagree on who Spock is..." only to be cut off again with "hold on - I'm not telling you I disagree....I'm telling you that you're wrong".

The meeting then moved on to completely new topics for the next ten minutes or so, until out of absolutely nowhere, that same executive blurts out to us "by the way, you ALL have the wrong idea about who Spock is!" He may as well have been stomping his feet on the ground with a pouty face when he had that final little outburst. It was incredible to watch. And even more incredible if you're familiar with how the Spock analogy relates to a character in the film we've been developing with these people for over a year.

What the hell do you say to that kind of an egotistical nutwad who has to be right at all costs, simply saying anything to win? The guy can fire you if he wants, and he has fired a shitload of people already. So you just shut up and hope he'll forget what he said and that you can still make a decent movie. But I've come to refer to these incidents as his "sky is green" moments - as in you say "the sky is blue", and he replies "no it's not - it's green." You look up and say "but I'm looking at it right now, and I can see that it's blue", to which he would just say "look, I'm an expert on the sky, and I'm telling you that it's green".

And the other executive we primarily deal with just always has to be the smartest person in the room - to the point that they'll tell you your idea doesn't work, and will then proceed to actually pitch the exact same idea back to you in their own wording as if it's theirs, as an idea that would work. Although in those instances, you can just go along with it and say "um....good idea", knowing that at least you can do what you wanted to do in the first place with that part of the story.

Not sure if any of this makes much sense out of context of the day to day development of this project, but it's been maddening.

Re: Transformers 2: Really?
 

Absolutely true. You would be surprised how much power the marketing department has here at Sony. They can trump virtually anyone, including the director of the film, on decisions about everything from character arcs, to designs, to music, etc. Man...if I hear the phrase "four quadrant family friendly" one more time, I think I may punch someone in the throat.

And do you wanna know the really magical part? "Up" is a movie that our executives would never in a million years allow to be made here for the very reasons you've cited, but since it made tons of money, they suddenly use it as reference for how to tell a story in every development meeting we have with them. Which, incidentally, I'd be happy about if they weren't wrong in their analysis and conclusions about why it works so well most of the time. That's why a movie like Transformers 2 is so dangerous. Now they'll start holding it up as an example because of all the money it made, despite being equally ignorant about what's wrong with it quality-wise.

Re: Transformers 2: Really?
 

how does this not kill you?

as a freelance designer finally getting himself going theres only a few people who needle me with pointless details to make it seem like they have important things to say. and the concept of that bothers me more than what they actually say, but just for that i talk back and argue with them anyway.
in your position i'd just never stop yelling at everyone. even after i'd get fired.

Re: Transformers 2: Really?
 

i'm not a trekkie, but i thought the idea of vulcan kids being mean was very un-vulcan like.

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Re: Transformers 2: Really?
 

Fucking Butt-Fucked Egypt. Why you ask?

Re: Transformers 2: Really?
 

Its killing me. I have had my fill with corporate america. Its a sinking ship anyway and I've decided I'm not going down with them. Phrases like "Hold it, I'm not saying I disagree with you, I'm saying you're wrong" chill me to the bone. Dissected, it reveals the true mindset of corporatism. There is no reality other than what makes me look smart and makes me more money by way of the corporation making more money. And it's shocking to people that there's 16.5% unemployment now?

I developed software for a small almost family run company based on the classic american business model. That means you build capital and use that for your re-investments, not credit. You base performance on *profits*, ie the shit you get to keep, not earnings or some enron style metric of "profitability", You keep the value in the company, not squeeze out every dime, leverage it up to the hilt, and hand it off as some frankenstein magic profit machine to some other poor sap investor like you're a speculator swapping houses.

But our success by this model made us attractive to investment arms of fuck off big corporations like GE (not to name any names). So in come all these hot shot 30 year olds in leer jets from chicago who buy up our small business and proceed to corporatize us the way the rest of the god forsaken country works. They turn our accounting department into a fantasy football pool, so that they can just sit there and watch the stats. They put a patsy in for the CEO, pass around a bunch of "Six Sigma" books so we can all educate ourselves on how to really run our company, throw in a couple moles to brow beat us with their expertise.

now people who were like family can't look each other in the eye, our decisions are based on anything but reality. I have about 6 bosses, all of them well below my education level.

So I'm getting the rock out of here because 1. its going to go down in flames eventually, just like every ponzi scheme, just like the american economy which is itself a big ponzi scheme. 2. I'd rather work a squeegie on an off-ramp than be a corporate shill, and nothing less is asked of me every day at work.

how does that not kill anybody?

Re: Transformers 2: Really?
 

Oh man, I would LOVE to know the names of who you're talking about. PM me if you wouldn't mind!

Re: Transformers 2: Really?
 

Ya knooow, during the past few years, you can go back and read a few news media outlets and see who stated, "You cannot steal an idea." It's popped up a few times.

Re: Transformers 2: Really?
 

Sometimes the trick is making people think they thought of things themselves.

The Master doesn't talk, he acts.
When his work is done,
the people say, "Amazing:
we did it, all by ourselves!" -Tao Te Ching 17

Re: Transformers 2: Really?
 

You and me both, brotha'. Sorry to hear about your situation. Screw 'em.

Re: Transformers 2: Really?
 

Guys, stop fucking getting off topic and talk about how fucking awesome T2 is.

I think I know why a lot of you fucks didn't seem to enjoy it.

I saw it for the second time on Saturday night, and thought to myself "how the fuck could this fucking masterpiece get any better?" - and then realised that it would be fucking incredible if I was completely fucking drunk.

So I snuck a bottle of fucking Bacardi and 5 cans fucking of vodka and passionfruit soda in. I bought a fucking medium lemon soda, drank half, then emptied the fucking bacardi into it.

I then chugged the fuck out of all of them.

2 things.

1) Having to fucking piss in a movie is fucking lame.
2) Megan Fox is fucking crazy hot, but holy fuck with beer goggles on I would have crawled over a mile of broken fucking glass to eat a yard of her shit.

So after fucking going nuts for fucking OPTIMUS "FUCKING DECEPTICON TRASH" PRIME, I then kicked on at the local pub. I didn't really know anyone there, so I used my fucking supreme charms to manipulate the large group of fucking 18 year old girls into buying me drinks. Those silly bitches thought I was going to fuck them or something, but instead I gave them my jive-talkin'-nigger-bot routine and then stumbled home.

FINAL SCORE FOR NIGHT OUT WITH THE AUTOBOTS:

DRINKS - 5/5
OPTIMUS - 5/5
DRUNK 18 YEAR OLD BITCHES - 5/5
TOTAL - THIS IS BETTER THAN SEAN'S MOVIE.

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Sounds like good 'ol Tom....

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Re: Transformers 2: Really?
 

FUCK HEY DUBMAN QUOTED ME

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fuck yeah i quoted it everywhere
probably the funniest post ive read here

Re: Transformers 2: Really?
 

And the piece of shameful garbage that is Transformers 2 holds onto the number one spot for a second week in a row. It's now grossed just shy of $300,000,000. Audiences have officially forfeited their right to ever complain about Hollywood churning out crap movies since they clearly enjoy the all-you-can-eat crap buffet.

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Mmhhhhh, crap... *drools*

Seriously, I'm with you on this topic. I have to admit I did go to watch Terminator 4, but that was about the only crappy blockbuster this year. So, who's filling row after row of mindless entertainees washing those millions into greasy pockets? Not saying, I wouldn't take the money, though.

This misery can easily be extended to TV talk shows and docu soaps. I mean, there aren't ONLY pensioners, drunkards and retarded people watching TV, are there?

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Terminator 4 wasn't half bad actually.

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i actually hope a film like Avatar could change our perceptions.

i know i shouldn't fall victim to the hype

...but when a film like Transformers 2 is considered a financial success in the industry...a film purist like me who considers a great story over visual effects..i would expect nothing less than a stellar film that will help us forget that steaming pile of robotic dung that was transformers.

i would like to start a petition to officially ban Michael Bay from ever touching a film camera again...

Re: Transformers 2: Really?
 

I will sign the crap out of that petition. And incidentally, Turd-formers 2 has made $389,508,496 in the US, and $423,209,446 overseas for a total gross of $812,717,942. Dear lord help us all.


By the way, if you haven't seen it already, there's a great article about Michael Bay in the Onion from a few months back:

Michael Bay Signs $50M Deal To Fuck Up 'ThunderCats'
APRIL 13, 2009 | ISSUE 45•16

LOS ANGELES—In the largest deal ever made to shit out a movie, Warner Bros. and director Michael Bay announced a landmark $50 million agreement this week to monumentally fuck up ThunderCats.

"I couldn't be more excited to completely fuck this up," said Bay, who plans to begin production on destroying the live-action adaptation next month. "ThunderCats has a great story, endearing characters, action, adventure, space-travel, and fantasy. It will be an honor to run it into the ground."

"I'll use every directorial tool I have to suck the very life and charm out of this beloved cartoon," added Bay, claiming that the film could turn out to be the most colossal piece of shit he's ever worked on. "I won't rest until I get every last scene exactly wrong."

The article continues and only gets more and more harsh. It's brilliant.