Re: is there anyone else who is pro-life AND pro-gay rights, or is it just me?
 

I'm calling bullshit on this. what is your source? What have you read and can cite that can support this claim? You're conveniently forgetting the massive economic and political vectors that have shaped the institution of marriage. Ever read a jane austin novel?

I've never once heard about marriage as a way of getting helpless women out of harm, and i've heard lots of stories about marriage being power strategies between families. And sometimes even love.


You're the one not reading posts, mate.

Gay marriage is the holy grail, no, the emancipation proclamation for gay people. Nothing else will give them an equal status.

Spelled out.

1. marriage is a public ceremony. A covenant is created between the couple and society. The couple accepts certain expectations of behavior from society (IE not fucking other people's spouses), and the couple is given certain privileges from society.

2. homosexuality lacks social acceptance as a form of coupling.

3. gay marriage therefore is the public acceptance of their coupling and therefore of being gay categorically.

QED

Re: is there anyone else who is pro-life AND pro-gay rights, or is it just me?
 

Needless to say I disagree with a lot of that, but I'm not going to post anymore in this thread since you people are obviously trying to get me to debate against something that I do support, so I'll just leave it at that.

Re: is there anyone else who is pro-life AND pro-gay rights, or is it just me?
 

Hey, we never asked you to play devil's advocate on this topic. You're the one who popped off at the mouth and then got reamed by half the members of the forum. If you're butt-hurt and want to take your ball and go home, that's fine, but don't blame it on us, bro.;)

Re: is there anyone else who is pro-life AND pro-gay rights, or is it just me?
 

Yikes, all I was doing was showing how you can be against gay marriage and not be a hateful person who beats their wife...the fact that nobody challenges that is worrying to me. I don't exactly call it a reaming because I actually agreed with most everything that was being said, but whatever. No need to be a total prick about it, is there? Seriously, get over yourself.

Re: is there anyone else who is pro-life AND pro-gay rights, or is it just me?
 

hahahahaha.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Re: is there anyone else who is pro-life AND pro-gay rights, or is it just me?
 

Dude, you missed the mark completely, and you're so in denial you don't even know it.:p

Re: is there anyone else who is pro-life AND pro-gay rights, or is it just me?
 

I don't recall anyone saying that everyone who's against same sex marriage is a "hateful person who beats their wife". The point about abuse was simply raised as something that's actually a threat to marriage yet relatively ignored by those who pretend to be protecting the institution's sanctity, unlike same-sex marriage which has been vanquished through such nobel legislation as the "Defense of Marriage Act".

I think the predominant feelings on the part of people 'round these parts is that a significant percentage* of those who oppose same sex marriage do so out of some level of homophobia and/or flat out bigotry - and frankly, as this thread has shown, I think it's difficult to prove otherwise.

* note - that's "significant percentage", not "all". Just seemed like it might be necessary to reiterate that detail.

Re: is there anyone else who is pro-life AND pro-gay rights, or is it just me?
 

explain? what exactly are you accusing me of?

Re: is there anyone else who is pro-life AND pro-gay rights, or is it just me?
 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32405543/ns/us_news-life/


See guys, THIS would have been soo much more acceptable. You dumb gay people. Man! I'm having fun talking shit about everyone!!!

Re: is there anyone else who is pro-life AND pro-gay rights, or is it just me?
 

The fact that you're still trying to focus on my tongue-in-cheek description of a marriage means you're totally missing the point. Yes, I made up a fake marriage wherein the father is abusive and, though I never said it, also against gay marriage. The point was NOT that anyone against gay marriage is a hateful person who beats their wife. The point was that there's so much wrong with the "traditional" institution of marriage, that no one has the right to now claim it as sacrosanct and off limits to someone else. I mean, we let people get married by Elvis impersonators, for fuck's sake, so again, what right do we have to deny marriage to anyone? We cannot, on one hand, treat marriage like a joke, and then turn around and say that gays getting married will somehow tarnish this most holy of institutions. This "Fags Not Allowed" policy is motivated by fear and prejudicial opinion. Period. The fact that we tie in so many State benefits to marriage makes the denial of gay marriage unconstitutional.

You say that you agree with gay marriage, but all of your arguments are against it. If you were just playing Devil's Advocate, you did a crap job of it and we can just leave it at that. However, I suspect that you DON'T actually agree with gay marriage, and you're simply not very good at articulating your points.

And, yes; I'm a grumpy prick. Sean is the polite one. I'm more of the hot-head. If you want someone to pat you on the head and tell you it's going to be alright, Sean's your man. I got over myself many many moons ago, and I got over other people earlier than that. I call 'em like I see 'em, and I'm not going to walk on eggshells around someone that I've never met in my life. It's called "Tough Love," and if it stings a little, well...

Re: is there anyone else who is pro-life AND pro-gay rights, or is it just me?
 

Again, you're missing the point - is it really that hard to see how this may be argued as being NOT a civil rights issue? I keep waiting for all the ownage you're promising to happen but all I'm getting is self-congratulatory BS. I don't like Vegas weddings any more than you do. Maybe you're putting forward a good argument for stopping that, but it's not an argument for gay marriage. I guess I'll go cry now :confused:

Re: is there anyone else who is pro-life AND pro-gay rights, or is it just me?
 

O.K., but, make like a big production about it and run to your room shouting, "I hate all of you." and then, jump on your bed and bury your face in the pillows!

That would be, like, sooo Brady Bunch or something.

Re: is there anyone else who is pro-life AND pro-gay rights, or is it just me?
 

349 - do you consider straight marriage a civil right?

Re: is there anyone else who is pro-life AND pro-gay rights, or is it just me?
 

Based on his (her?) previous posts in this thread, my impression is that no, marriage is not a civil rights issue to 349.... And honestly, I'd say that the ball is in your court 349....to effectively explain how marriage isn't a civil right since it seems you're the only person here who's floated that idea in the first place. Clearly, it is hard for the majority of us to grasp how it could be viewed as anything but, so it could be helpful for you to clarify.

And 349..., the point isn't whether or not there should be Elvis weddings, it's that there are Elvis weddings, not to mention a laundry list of other issues out there that legitimately undercut the "sanctity" of marriage far, far more than same sex marriage ever could. And yet the people who are most vocally opposed to same sex marriage seem conspicuously silent about those other issues - presumably simply because they're issues between straight couples, so it's okay. They can stomach two drunk people who just met getting married by Elvis in a chapel attached to a casino, but a gay couple that's been together for years who are looking to legally and socially declare their lifelong commitment to each other is going to tear this institution apart! It's illogical, it's irrational, and it highlights exactly how this crusade against same sex marriage is primarily motivated by some measure of homophobia and/or bigotry.

When it gets right down to it, I just don't see what the big fear is about gay people. Okay, so they're sexually attracted to their own gender while the majority of us are sexually attracted to the opposite gender. So what? Do we ask straight couples to justify what they do in the bedroom, or strip them of their rights because they happen to enjoy a little booty lovin' from time to time? Of course not. Or at least not any more. So why does homosexual activity justify such draconian methods?

Or is it maybe because gay people are in the minority? Well, less than 10% of the U.S. population is left-handed, a similar percentage to the number of people who are gay in this country, so should we strip rights away from left-handed people? Are they damaging the sanctity of writing by using their left hands to do it? Or the sanctity of baseball by stepping up to the left side of the plate instead of the right? I mean, obviously they're genetically wired to be different than the rest of us, just like gay people, so why not stop those damn lefties from destroying all that's precious to us? The only difference I can see is that we haven't been socially conditioned to discriminate against left-handed folks like we have with homosexuals - although, I have heard from numerous lefties over a certain age that back in school, their teachers used to force them to write with their right hands. Anyway, this discrimination against gays truly disgusts me.

And at the heart of the issue, I still have yet to hear a single reasonably and logically sound argument against same sex marriage from anyone.

Re: is there anyone else who is pro-life AND pro-gay rights, or is it just me?
 

That for me is the clincher for what does and does not appear to motivate those most vocal opponents of gay marriage.

I accept that it's not the clincher as an argument against gay marriage per se, but what it does do is hold up the underlying principles of those particular opponents to question.

And in the absence of more convincing reasons, you have to wonder...

Re: is there anyone else who is pro-life AND pro-gay rights, or is it just me?
 

Oh don't leave us on the edge of our seats like that.

"tell me more, tell me more
like, does he have friend?" Or something.

Re: is there anyone else who is pro-life AND pro-gay rights, or is it just me?
 

There's a storm gathering.

The clouds are dark.

It can only mean one thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp76ly2_NoI

Re: is there anyone else who is pro-life AND pro-gay rights, or is it just me?
 

I don't know about you lot, but I think someone's telling the self-righteous holier-than-thou type to kiss his ass:

Re: is there anyone else who is pro-life AND pro-gay rights, or is it just me?
 

Is that the crack of dawn, jOHN?

Btw, the response to that earlier vid

(Hey it's holiday time. Serious can wait.)

Re: is there anyone else who is pro-life AND pro-gay rights, or is it just me?
 

OMG! "They" got a horse already!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bicsqqg5qaE

Re: is there anyone else who is pro-life AND pro-gay rights, or is it just me?
 

Sean, its those gay lefties that scare me ;)

Re: is there anyone else who is pro-life AND pro-gay rights, or is it just me?
 

I'm guessing some of you may have caught NYS Senator Diane Savino speaking on the Marriage Equality bill?

Re: is there anyone else who is pro-life AND pro-gay rights, or is it just me?
 

Well said, Savino! Unfortunately, the bill to legally recognize same sex marriage in New York was shot down anyway.

Re: is there anyone else who is pro-life AND pro-gay rights, or is it just me?
 

I don't know if anyone remembers my saying, "Rich people are just kinda stupid."?

Hence:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35014696...me_and_courts/