Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
 

wasn't there a tomato exhibition around this time that explored language, its impermanence, disappearance, and how important it is to our oral history? i feel like the art book is an echo of that. tying that back to the space the album was in feels like a new facet. it's nice.

Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
 

re: Riverrun distinctions. For me the Peel session is the mark of the beginning of the Riverrun series and the end of the AHDO era. It's got vibes from both and easily bridges the two. OWB is absolutely the culmination of the RR and Downpipe the start of Barking.

Haven't received my package yet, looking forward to it. Bummed we don't get the 24 bit download with a physical purchase. As far as content goes, it's gonna be more important in the future. Remastering is already questionable with BF's original quality, and will only continue to be less of a help as we get further along.

I would absolutely buy a 'Live' boxset of choice shows and a studio jam.

Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
 

I never knew that. Thanks for that info. It makes more sense now. As of now, I like this book the best out of the three super deluxe books.

Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
 

After diving into the boxset today, here's my (apologetically long) multi-part take on it:

1) Like most others here, I was really disappointed about the lack of extras, and that's been covered fairly in-depth by everyone. Wasn't a fan of the blue and pink cover either, and seriously debated whether to even buy it or just get the Mp3 download instead. The $47 price at Amazon and CDimport definitely alleviated that though, compared to the expense of the other sets.


2) It arrived in the best packing and is probably the most beautiful set of the group. The blue and pink seems right for that era and look great in the hand. The book is minimal, but in-depth in its image iterations and explorations of the "We are Beaucoup Fish" theme through its statistics content.


3) The music choices do actually seem appropriate to this album, unfortunately - I remember at the time the strange disappointment that all the extra mixes, b-sides and long EPs of the first two albums had suddenly been replaced with a few basic remixes from the band, tons of unnecessary typical remixes from dance producers, and only one actual b-side.

On the one hand, the actual album was amazing and experimental and atmospheric and punchy like never before. On the other, Underworld had become immensely popular and were acting like the rest of the dance/pop community now with their releases. I felt great for them and loved the album, but it was less of a journey itself and without the other releases, less of a journey for fans. Guess they'd arrived. :/


4) The "Dobro" relating to Bruce Lee makes sense now with this mix, and while the opening sounds a bit rough, think this version nearly equals the actual song and is great to have. The long version of Mama is fairly epic and worthwhile too, as is the vocal performance on Nifter. Others all seem a little too rough or early, can take or leave them.


5) Given that there are 11 extra tracks, no repeats and only one minute difference in total length from the original album, it seemed appropriate to me to re-organize them to mirror the BF order. Nifter matches Winjer, Orange Bed starts like Kittens, and Yeah Plan has a Downstairs dubby downtempo-ness:


Beaucoup Fish (CD2, Unreleased)

1. Please Help Me
2. Push Upstairs (Alt 1 A1336 July 98)
3. Jumbo (Diff Bass 2 A1317 Nov 97)
4. King Of Snake (Garage Mix A1313 Sept 97)
5. Nifter (5 A1317 Nov 97)
6. Skym (A A1317 Nov 97)
7. Bruce Lee (Ricks 1st Dobro Mix)
8. UW Orange Bed (Sept 97)
9. Yeah Plan (From A1385)
10. Something Like A Mama (Alt Upstairs Mix A1340 July 98)
11. Ramajama


6) Overall

Dubno - Best music choices, best b-sides and rarities, best presentation, great design, best overall value.

STITI - Best and most surprising unreleased music, solid b-sides and rarities, worst design and presentation (don't know what Tomato was up to with that set, it didn't seem to relate to original album design well).

BF - Worst music choices, poor rarities, best individual new track (Ramajama), best design and book.

Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
 

Did anyone notice there are Five Points on the booklet cover? ;)

Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
 

So were Rez, Spikee, Dark Train and Oich Oich, but they ended up on the first two sets. Not to mention that the 1992-2012 is out of print physically.

Some thoughts...

Nifter - Nice little piece.
Bruce Lee 1st Dobro - Nice energetic remix, enjoyed the bizarre jazz skronk elements, but overall it's not that different to the original. Would have preferred something that was a halfway point between this and the final Dobropet.
Orange Bed - They really liked this beat, didn't they? Nice mix of Kittens, Mama and Pens with new words. All the final versions of those are much better than this, but it's another chance to hear their fascinating working process.
Skym Nov 97 - Really don't like this version. Very undeveloped and lacking any atmosphere.
Jumbo Diff Bass - There's a lovely alternate universe where this was the a-side to CD2 of the single, and we had a new track (or drastically different version) in its place here. It's a nice version.
Push Upstairs Alt - Early version of The Large Unit. I like the synth stabs that come in halfway through and the really weird stuff in the string breakdown. It's a very rough mix though, which makes is kinda hard to listen to. "I say chaps!" - lovely.
King of Snake Garage Mix - Well this was a lot of fun. I expected it to be closer to the version that they put online years ago, but was pleasantly surprised. Great to hear how far this track came over the years. Obviously not a patch on the final version, but different enough to enjoy on that merit alone. For me, the Barking Mix is still the final, perfect incarnation of KoS.
Something Like a Mama Alt - "Ah, an extended version" I thought, until it all started going a bit mental. Enjoyed this a lot, went in a lot of very strange directions.
Please Help Me - Same as ever.
Yeah Plan - Ok this is very different. Not like anything else I've heard from the BF sessions. Would love to know where this could have gone. Those synths near the end are lovely.
Ramajama - MORE LIKE THIS PLEASE.
Remixes - meh.


Overall definitely an enjoyable set of tracks on disc 2, and it's much more interesting than the demo sets a lot of deluxe edition get saddled with. Frankly we've been spoiled with the earlier sets, particularly the Dubnobass one, so this in itself is decent. That said, given what we know is out there, and the fact it can only be got through buying the super-deluxe 4CD set (/digital equivalent), it's still a bit of an underwhelming collection.

There must be a good reason why they didn't include any more completely unheard tracks, although unless they're planning a FSOL / Aphex style archive dump, then I can't work out what it is.

Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
 

I realize that mostly I've been griping in this thread about what's missing from & disappointing about this reissue, so I thought I'd focus on what's great about it. After all, they didn't have to reissue this album & dig up the unreleased tracks so it does feel a bit entitled to turn around and complain that it's not perfect. That other UK electronic duo, Boards of Canada, are quite happy to leave all their unreleased music sealed up in a vault forever so any generosity on UW's part is appreciated.

Nifter - quite nice to hear the Please Help Me lyrics in a clearer form. I enjoy how bare and stripped down this is compared to more dense stuff like Kittens and Moaner.

King of Snake Garage Mix - this is a lot of fun, especially the bass line that comes in at 2:36 that sounds very "late 90s dance music" to me. also nice to hear the lyrics in a non-shouty way for a change.

Something Like a Mama Alt Mix - the original has always been my favorite track off Beaucoup Fish so hearing this is a bit of a revelation. Even better would be to have an ambient version with just those lovely, evocative chords.

Ramajama - as many have accurately noted, this is the best of the unreleased tracks on disc 2 for sure. It's a bit odd that this didn't end up on any of the BF singles, since after Please Help Me there weren't any further (non-remix) bonus tracks from that era. That fade-out is a little abrupt and unceremonious, though, even for a demo.

As for the remixes on the other 2 bonus discs, there's several that I'm glad to finally have in better quality, namely Dave Angel's King of Snake and Adam Beyer's Push Upstairs mix 2. Both Futureshock mixes are solid. The Roger S Push Upstairs dub mostly just makes me want to listen to the superior, vocal version. The Sugar Hit mix of Jumbo is great but a bit frustrating to listen to since it starts fading out during an especially lovely bit and you know it's supposed to go on for another minute and a half. The Bungalow mix of King of Snake would have been great here too, and there would have been plenty of room for it. I'm assuming the original master for that would have been easier to track down than, say, those Italian KoS remixes. A missed opportunity for sure. But oh - I forgot I'm not supposed to be complaining here.

The Micronauts mix of Bruce Lee has long been my favorite version of that track and I've played it out DJing many times over the years, though usually my own 6:50 long edit version. The Buffalo Daughter remix - I did spend a bit of $ getting the Japanese Bruce Lee cd single back in the day just to get this track, and I remember finding it okay but a little inconsequential and so it made me wonder if the expense had been worth it.

The remaster job on the album is fine but also a bit unnecessary since the original master was fine to begin with. I made the decision to not buy the physical box set this time around (after having bought the first two) since the somewhat perplexing choices made on the bonus discs soured my impression of the whole thing a little bit. Though I'm a big fan of the art direction from this era so maybe I'm regretting my decision a tiny bit now. The BF album and singles may be my favorite design scheme for any release campaign ever (though Depeche Mode's Violator era releases are a very close second.)

One thing that I've realized about Beaucoup Fish now that I'm revisiting it is how much I hate the ending of Kittens. It never bugged me that much before but now it just seems like such a cliche, pompous, "ta-da!" kind of ending, like something that Jean Michel Jarre would do at the end of one of his millennium Pyramid concerts or something like that.

Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
 

Yeah, it's my favourite BF track for that exact reason. The second half of the track is astonishingly beautiful and I'd love much more of that.

Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
 

Am i the only one whose super deluxe box had the paper with the track listing not actually attached to the box? it was folded round it but not glued, my dubno and stiti boxes have this paper glued on them. does at least let me see the back art in the pink colour scheme without damaging the paper for it. could try to get a picture if anyone is interested enough.

Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
 

Mine was not glued at all either, unlike the prior ones.

Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
 

Maybe they used a youtube ripper on this upload (seriously, take a listen below circa 3.10 to the surface noise and compare the pops/clicks to what you've just bought. The "double click" at 3.21 Thoughts?):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5g1jEtBgdW8

Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
 

http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/...beaucoup-fish/

Pitchfork have reviewed the album...

Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
 

Yeah, I agree. Not that YouTube specifically (it was only uploaded at the end of May, after all), but the same MP3 source for that YouTube upload, which is probably a commonly circulating MP3 of the track.

Maybe only V2 (or the original producers) has the masters of those Italian remixes, and UW don't have a copy of the Italian CD either? Several of us would've been happy to lend CD rips, though, if only they'd asked.

Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
 

Hi all, got my boxset. Is there no download code like there was for previous reissue boxsets?

Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
 

No download code. Welcome to the forums!

Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
 

I got a download code in mine!

Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
 

Hm, might just be the US version then that didn't get a download code.

Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
 

yeah i noticed that, then realized that the box design on the others is covered by the glued paper, so i removed all of them, took off the glue, and placed the paper inside the box. much better.

also in the biggest fanboy moment of 2017: i took the sticker on the plastic wrap of the BF box, and attached it to the poster i got back in 1999.

Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
 

What Sherburne touches on about Kittens is what i almost started a separate thread about (and in fact it'd be fun to have a whole thread dedicated to individual tracks in some interesting/personal perspective way), but couldn't capably condense my nebulous vibes&thoughts on it enough to justify making a whole thread.

KITTENS.

it's a bit of a awkward bastard in 2017 isn't it? it used to be a head-floating bigtime highlight for me, but in the last decade or so a bad notion started creeping up, that it might but be... extraordinarily cheeseball. and not in the "all in good fun" kind.
individually, there's nothing wrong with earnestness, big statements, escalating synths, and the hard beat, but put together in this kind of package, it's the one on beaucoup fish that feels the most dated. if it's techno, it equates to a noxious, neverending fistpump. if it's underworld, it's pretty juvenile. if it's a stadium banger, it's almost cynical? what does this track do that Cherry Pie doesn't also indulge in with better results?
maybe it just all circles back to Sherburne's off-handed diagnosis: those fucking crash cymbals.

Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
 

ok third post in a row, but ending on a positive note:

after taking the BF box in full i understand and even appreciate a little having 2 discs of remixes. something still nags at the back of my head as to why more underworld material couldn't have made it, but the remixes are a distinct part of BF as a snapshot of the band in that time. they aren't photobombing it, they're part of the ethic. if you followed them, they bring back different but related memories (i only bought the singles box set to get at "Please Help Me", but ended up listening to some of the remixes for a time).

so fine, fine.

i'm happy with the outtakes (especially nifter) and my faves from that blend nicely into my big BF playlist.

Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
 

yup, this exactly. Kittens is emblematic of what began to turn me off about Underworld during the Beaucoup Fish years. (This also applies to Moaner as well, I guess, which gave me a headache both then and now.) I'd always loved the fine-tuned craftsmanship of the previous two albums, the sumptuous layers, the intricate percussion, the balancing act of being simultaneously moody and danceable. Even the "big" tracks like Cowgirl and the aforementioned Cherry Pie were smart and elegant in their own ways, never having to sacrifice detail for large scale impact. Kittens on the other hand, even though it wasn't entirely without precedent (Rowla for example), just seemed very . . . basic. It's moves were predictable, its intentions were obvious. I could appreciate that not everything they did needed to be an ornate, elaborate masterpiece, but did they really need to dispense with all their usual nuance? As dubman mentioned, Cherry Pie is just as massive sounding while still managing to be about 100 times more interesting. And it was only a b-side!

At least Cups was there to reassure me that the old Underworld I knew and loved still existed.

Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
 

I know there's some people here who consider it indispensable so i want them to jump in too.

rowla is a good contrast because it's simple minded but (imo) sneaks up on your groove detection system and implies a lot more than it lays out. those implications get explored and overblown in endless rolls on the live version, but i digress.
if you stripped Kittens down and let those synths breathe on their own, what would that sound like? wouldnt it imply everything else that the track adds and bricks you upside the head with? if you brought a beat in, what would it be like at half time? i'm sure a lot of this was explored by R&K&D, but something feels muffed about this almost-classic in a very weird way.

Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
 

I love Kittens. But these criticisms are thoughtful. Can't really argue except to say "But i like it anyway."

Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
 

does it all just click together and work for you, or is there something you think we're missing that makes it more complex than we give it credit for?

what is kittens
why is rez
how is banstyle

Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
 

On the surface level, the rhythms and sounds and all the accents, crashes and noises are just pure catnip to me (no pun intended). But I think Kittens tells a kind of story, in an abstract art kind of way. You begin with this almost evil sounding invasion of percussion punctuated with these sinister bass notes. They build and build ominously for half the track, but then the bright keyboard pads start to rise out of the noise and ultimate beat back the cacophony of drums. When the keyboard solos, it feels like the sun's come out. Then when the drums come back you've got this programmed vs. live thing going on, where Rick is obviously playing those keys around the drums.

It feels like a narrative to me.

Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
 

what a graphic and novel perspective ;)

i kid. i did usually imagine the track in the context of whatever game or show or comic i was consuming at the time, so i see where you're coming from with that. i guess after so much of that kind of history it all peels off over time and i'm left with a great big box containing a remaster made to stand all on its own.

Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
 

Was your download code for all 4 CDs or just disc 1? What format can you download with the code?

Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
 

Lx_Nen told me the download code was all 4 discs, in 16/44 WAV.

Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
 

In relation to all the Kittens discussions going on, Darren Emerson once told me that Kittens was effectively "his track". Might go some way to explaining why it dated differently to the other tracks if it was developed more as a DJ friendly track. Just a thought.

Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
 

I enjoy Kittens, but taking a moment and comparing it to Puppies (because, y'know, titles), I know which one feels more Underworld.

Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
 

This sort of jibes with my interpretation of the track. It's Emerson vs. Smith.

Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
 

Ah, that makes sense then. I've always been more of a Rick than a Darren. More of a Barrel of a Gun Soft Mix than a Barrel of a Gun Hard Mix.

Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
 

I haven't been on here in ages. I've had a lovely time reading all of your complaints, broadly agreeing with them, and simultaneously enjoying the new boxset.

Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
 

The Kittens = Darren revelation just made me think of something...

Five Points = Darren? Could explain its absence?

Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
 

That was my point/question earlier in the thread, does anyone know whether Darren had any input with the re-issues or any say on what could or could not be included? Are the extra tracks just R&K's? Are there others Darren was involved with that won't ever be released?

I would be very surprised if Five Points was Darren's, the music sounds a bit like Headset to me and I'm sure it must be Rick's tune.

Now Rowla must be Darren's, I'm sure I remember reading there were problems with putting together STITI and which /who's versions of tracks to use: Surely Rowla was Darren's and Cherry Pie was Rick's? Sorry if this point has already been discussed!

Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
 

The live shows have tended to favor Rowla over Cherry Pie, so I've always assumed Rick had special fondness for it. According to the STITI credits in the reissue, Darren has co-writing credit on these tracks only: Juanita/Kiteless/To Dream of Love, Banstyle/Sappys Curry, Confusion the Waitress and Pearls Girl. Even Nuxx is credited to Rick and Karl alone.

After the split I remember reading interviews with Karl where he suggested that Rick was more responsible for the banging tracks than people would expect, so it's probably unwise to make assumptions.

As for Five Points, it doesn't sound too out of place next to Emerson and Sasha's Scorchio single from way back when...

Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
 

huh, never considered that 5points may have been heavliy Emerson and thus, not fit to include.

Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
 

Sorry, I had these tracks years ago, but my archive is a bit of a mess. Can someone point me in the direction of which live shows had 5 Points & Cape Ffuno?

Thanks

Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
 

Cape Ffuno was in the "Blue Mountain Jam" and it also reappeared later... I think during that tour just after Darren left (but maybe before AHDO?)

5 Points was played at "Hugo d.Nite" A-Hoy; Rotterdam, Netherlands ... and at a show in LA at the Mayan Theater

It's anybody's guess as to why "Five Points" wasn't included... I mean, if they actually do release a deluxe edition of "Everything Everything" there's a slim chance a live version might be included?

I'm still hoping that it might show up on the deluxe edition of AHDO (again - that is if they're making one - do we know if they're making special editions of every album?) ... as I think there's some of "Two Months Off"'s DNA in that track

Re: Beaucoup Fish - 4 CD Remastered Deluxe Box Set (8/25/2017)
 

I'm happy to buy as much Underworld material as they can release. If they did continue with EE and AHDO then by the time they got to Barking, that record would be over ten years old and suitable for a special edition.