Re: Tonite's broadcast - London Part 2 Oct 18
 

Wait, are the vids for purchase or just the audio from the shows?

Re: Tonite's broadcast - London Part 2 Oct 18
 

just the audio from the shows.

while the underworld team records every show with video cameras, i don't think that it's the sort of thing that will be made public (at least not the entire show in video format).

Re: Tonite's broadcast - London Part 2 Oct 18
 

well, they post some of the videos online in the Member section, but they're usually small size (about 320x240).

Re: Tonite's broadcast - London Part 2 Oct 18
 

Well has anyone recorded the vids from the last two live webcasts? I really want to see them.

Re: Tonite's broadcast - London Part 2 Oct 18
 

Bootleg distribution and discussions take place over at RTSR. Please make your requests over there.

Re: Tonite's broadcast - London Part 2 Oct 18
 

my pictures from both gigs are up at my flickr page now.
Was right up at the front on thursday so got some great pics there.

Re: Tonite's broadcast - London Part 2 Oct 18
 

Thread Precis

Dirt 1: "Wow what a fantastic show"
Lots of Dirts: "Yeah"
Dirt 2: "Really great huh? Here are some photos"
Lots of Dirts: "Yeah wow thanks!"
Dirt 3: "Hey, I have even managed to grab a couple of chunks from the official stream!" *
Lots of Dirts: "Wow that's really great! Thanks for those, man!"
Dirt 4: "Hey these are really cool - are we able to get any more of these?"
UberModeratur: "STOP ALL DISCUSSION NOW - ZIS IS NOT DE PLACE FOR DER DISCUSSIONING"

For goodness' sake, put the jackboots away, Stimps! ;)This was streamed free to the world! How on EARTH do you expect people not to talk about, and exchange clips from, this on here?

Maybe it is time for an open discussion about what does and does not qualify as a relevant topic on the UW fo.... but my understanding (and I think the majority of the people around here would concur with it) is that we don't discuss/condone/encourage ripping off the band through distributing commercial product. Anything else can be (and ought to be) discussed here if that is what people want. Otherwise, if we are to follow this extremist logic, people could no longer post YouTubes or photos from gigs either.

RTSR exists for the free trade of fan recordings. It is complementary to Dirty/DarkTrain.org, not a substitute for it.

There is doing the right thing - and stopping people from posting about ripping and exchanging officially-recorded material is absolutely the right thing to do.

Then there is over-zealousness, and this falls into that category, imo and just causes confusion. Ultimately, it may lead to alienation of Dirts who a) don't know what the precises "rules" are because they aren't written anywhere and appear arbitrary at best; and b) get fed up of being told off (and I used that term advisedly in view of the tone taken sometimes) when effectively they are just following the logic of a thread and haven't said or done anything wrong.



*i.e. not bootleg

Re: Tonite's broadcast - London Part 2 Oct 18
 

agreed. This was officially broadcast trough underworldlive and darktrain.org is the "official" message board. I don't see how posting parts of this broadcast is any different from people posting direct links to the various bits of music being posted as streams on underworldlive.

Re: Tonite's broadcast - London Part 2 Oct 18
 

i actually agree with BB too. this was broadcast free and on their own site, i think there's every right to talk about it and share whatever clips were gotten from it.
while bootlegs that someone in the audience recorded and even these live CDs being sold absolutely fall under the RTSR umbrella, the shows being broadcast on their own site, streaming, and absolutely not in a re-saleable format, have every expectation to be recorded by fans to share with other fans

plus it was brilliant, simon taylor did an immense job of gig 2

Re: Tonite's broadcast - London Part 2 Oct 18
 

the live cds that are sold now by underworld can't in any way shape or form be shared on rtsr.

Re: Tonite's broadcast - London Part 2 Oct 18
 

How is it bootleg distribution? It was a stream that was linked on underworld live. Does this mean that links to autotrader and/or phonestrap should only be linked at rtsr as well?

The webcast is faaaaaar from being a bootleg.

Re: Tonite's broadcast - London Part 2 Oct 18
 

okay.
dont get like that, i just thought it might be a gray area for a bit, due to the curse of being so limited and also pretty expensive to get all 6.
but it makes more sense not to.

Re: Tonite's broadcast - London Part 2 Oct 18
 

Come on, you seriously don't espect links to the whole stream here on this public forum!
If Underworld wanted to make the stream available to download they would have made recording a lot easier don't you think? Instead, they used a Quicktime stream that is almost impossible to record. Just because something is streamed freely to the would doesn't mean we can do with it whatever we want! A recording of the official stream is definately a bootleg, even if this might seem contradictory. When you look at Autotrader etc., the link is freely visible in the source code and I don't think UW would have something against downloading those little bits.
It's all about the artist's intent, although we can only guess as UW never stated directly what's okay (however, they tolerate RTSR if I remember correctly).
Does dirty forum need rules? Shouldn't we just use our common sense?
IMO links to one or two songs, Youtube vids etc. are okay, but we have to draw the line somewhere.

BeautifulBurnout: aaron has asked for the whole recordings, not just clips! There is no "over-zealousness" from Stimpee when he says that that's not okay.

Re: Tonite's broadcast - London Part 2 Oct 18
 

yes, it was broadcast, most of you seem to forget that it was in a format that was *very* difficult to record. plus the sound of it is distributed officiall.

--> definitly bootleg, and also half commercial.

bottomline: no silly questions here.

Re: Tonite's broadcast - London Part 2 Oct 18
 

The line IS drawn, and quite clearly and palpably, at commercial product. Thereafter everything becomes a gray area. The Bang posts clips, and nothing is said. Ely posts clips and nothing is said. Quite naturally flowing from that, aaron5000 asks if there is any more available, and we are told we aren't even allowed to discuss it here. So where is the line overstepped? Is it asking for more of what we have already seen? Is it posting clips taken from the stream in the first place? Is it posting anything at all relating to bootlegs, including YouTubes from the gigs themselves? Is it the mere mention of anything that could be construed as a bootleg?

And you refer to Phonestrap/Autotrader etc. They were posted on UW Live as streams, not downloads, and were ripped by Dirts and posted on here for download (or at least it was so initially - I haven't checked that out recently). So following your own logic, irrespective of how easy or difficult it was to crack the code, they, too, are bootlegs. Aren't they? Otherwise they would have been supplied as free downloads in the first place. So that particular argument doesn't have legs at all, I'm afraid.

So, if we follow the "no bootleg discussion" argument that Stimpee is trying to make, effectively, in his opinion (and, again, I say that advisedly, because it is only his opinion as one of the many moderators on this board) either a) nothing should be discussed on here or posted on here that could conceivably fall into the bootleg category, which would include all of the above, or alternatively b) we have to try it out and see whether, in his opinion, it is acceptable or not. (And his opinion may not in fact reflect the opinion of other moderators or even the band itself.) The latter appears to be the status quo and is at best confusing and at worst irritating.

The "no commercial product ripping" rule is a simple one to apply and to police. Anything else falls into such a fuzzy non-definable area that people are never going to know what oversteps the mark and what doesn't. You cannot realistically police something in such an abitrary fashion.

As for aaron - he can always ask, and someone can always say no, we don't think this is correct if that is the policy. But to say "no, it is something you cannot talk about here but you can talk about it elsewhere" is kinda dumb in the context.

What is the message you are trying to send out? That we don't share bootlegs? That we do share bootlegs but shhh!... don't let the band know we do? Come on. Get real, chaps.

What bootleg. There is no bootleg. We are bootleg-less. :rolleyes:

Re: Tonite's broadcast - London Part 2 Oct 18
 

no, these were posted as files, not streams.
So, following general logic, your hole argument does not only have no legs, but also no foot and hands ;)



why do we have to have the bootleg-discussion for the umpteeth time?

Re: Tonite's broadcast - London Part 2 Oct 18
 

it was a streamed file.
you'd have to go into the source code, make the mov a link, download, and convert to mp3.

lots of people wouldnt bother.

and if this broadcast were so damn hard to rip then how did one out of the few who would be motivated enough to do it figure it out.

again, this broadcast is not ever going to be for sale, it was transmitted in streaming quality, it in no way could be sold for money, so it's not ripping off of anything

Re: Tonite's broadcast - London Part 2 Oct 18
 

because it's getting a little draconian at this point

Re: Tonite's broadcast - London Part 2 Oct 18
 

OMG I agree with Dubman!

/me takes her temperature and pulse....;)


Any road up - the point I am trying to make boils down to this, logically:

Discussing ripping/sharing of the Tokyo CDs or current CDs on here was obviously bad.
Discussing ripping Tokyo when it was played at 96kbps on Dirty Radio was not bad.
Discussing ripping/seizing the stream of Cocoon was not considered bad except by Sanakan it appears ;).
Ergo, discussing ripping/sharing of clips from the recent streams at a miserable quality/bitrate is not bad.

Consistency, people, consistency! This is no way to run a whorehouse otherwise!
I rest my case.

Re: Tonite's broadcast - London Part 2 Oct 18
 

Well considering I asked if it was posted anywhere also meant is there a place it has been placed on underworldlive that I had missed. So before anyone starts with the bootleg talk that should be taken into consideration.

Why are some clips permitted and others not? This is absurd. It would seem to me that it would fall into place of past streams that have been linked on this forum many times. One of these times it was a live vid/audio cast from lemonworld, and it was posted with a .cue to be able to split the files into individual tracks. Is it really hard to believe that some other stream that has gone through underworldlive has been asked for?


Agreed.

Re: Tonite's broadcast - London Part 2 Oct 18
 

Sometimes things gets posted and are tolerated by the moderators. If one wants more, then Stimpee refers to RTSR. I agree that this is confusing. And then, things get posted because this is confusing. Stimpee refers to RTSR... and so on.

So the 'rules' are: Some 'teasers' are allowed. For more, visit RTSR. To resolve the confusion I suggest the moderators make a sticky.

I know the situation from when I was a new member. Why was talking about bootlegs not allowed on dirty.org? Instead there was RTSR which was strange and ambiguous because no one really talked about it. And then look at http://rtsr.rowla.com/, it's like 5 years old, lists "snail-mail" with CD-R's as the method to share bootlegs, and no links work anymore. And I hate mailing lists. They are so inconvenient and not-forum-like. I also hate yahoo. I had to make a yahoo account just for RTSR. That sucked.
Once in RTSR the real confusion started: What is the FTP? Where is that tracker everyone talked about? And why does no one use "snail mail" to share bootlegs anymore?
I suggest rebuilding RTSR from scratch as a proper forum and with more up-to-date information for newbies. Or why not make it a non-public dirty subforum 'RTSR' which only members with like 10+ posts have access to? I hope that those points are taken as constructive critisism and not as whining/nagging. :)

The lemonworld broadcast you are talking about was probably this one. It was posted on underworldlive.com as a direct link.

Maybe the mods can split the bootleg discussion from the rest of the thread and make a new one.

Re: Tonite's broadcast - London Part 2 Oct 18
 

Agreed. It would be nice.

Re: Tonite's broadcast - London Part 2 Oct 18
 

From my point of view the files like Phonestrap, Autotrader are offered for download. They are links, and that is probably Underworld's intention even if the packaging as *.mov file is like a stream. They probably have nothing against it if we load them on our DAPs.

On the other side look at the Crocodile videos. They are not the same format. They are pure streams which are harder to rip and thus are probably not intended to download. UW could have made them similar files to the files above but they chose to offer them only as streams. That makes sense, considering the Crocodile vid is on the DVD and the Alligator version is an "underworldlive.com" exclusive.

The concert web-streams (Cocoon, London) where the hardest to rip. I didn't manage to rip them, the only possibility I found were screenrecorders. In this case, I assume that Underworld don't want us to download them, because they probably want us to have a one-time "concert-like" multimedia experience.

Of course all those points are assumptions. You may have a different opinion, or my opinion may not be the same than that of the band.

There is nothing truly unrippable. You can circumvent copy protections on CDs, DVD, HDDVDs, Bluray, DRM-protected music downloads, video downloads... etc. There is always somebody who will get around that crap and then use the stuff he paid for like he wants. (which is a good thing IMO)
I don't know how TheBang did this. Maybe screencapturing. If he got the real stream then kudos to him.

If this is gonna be released somewhere, here or on RTSR, the audio has to be stripped as this is, because it was commercially released, "ripping off" and "stepping beyond the line".
Then you'll get just the video stream and must mux it with the audio from your legitimate CD copy bought from liveherenow. Sounds fun.

And I really hope they will release this as an official download or something. I would buy this thing as soon as they released it. A DVD would be nice, too. The demand is there.

Re: Tonite's broadcast - London Part 2 Oct 18
 

For these London QuickTime broadcasts? No, thank you for playing, try again.

My personal feelings on this issue are similar to Jan's. Small clips, YouTubes, etc, are fine for here. When you start talking about whole shows, take it to RTSR. And yeah, RTSR would be easier to use with a forum rather than a mailing list.

Re: Tonite's broadcast - London Part 2 Oct 18
 

so, did anyone record Fridays set ?
:o
oops...wednesday or thursdays ?
please PM me, anyone, if there is a recording of thursdays gig, as i hear they played KITTENS, and i must have.
i will pay for cd / shipping.

Re: Tonite's broadcast - London Part 2 Oct 18
 

well, you can buy it from here:

http://www.liveherenow.co.uk/artist/underworld/

:)

Re: Tonite's broadcast - London Part 2 Oct 18
 

[COLOR=Indigo]that is just so sick... [/COLOR]

Re: Tonite's broadcast - London Part 2 Oct 18
 

i didnt mean the audio...i meant the video broadcast.
come on now...
im all over the purchasing of the audio cd, but sadly as i was en route to the UK, i didnt get a chance to hear thursdays gig, nor see it, nor dream i was able to leave a day earlier to experience it.

youre right...very sick.

Re: Tonite's broadcast - London Part 2 Oct 18
 

soz - thought you meant audio :)
if i'd recorded it i'd deffo sort you out to make up for some of ya disappointment :( unfortunately i was at the gig ;)

get well soon underworld people (we should have an official get well soon thread) and to all the dirts that are disappointed - hope we can hook up for a gig in 2008. i really hope we can all fly to toronto mate :)

Re: Tonite's broadcast - London Part 2 Oct 18
 

Look, I didnt want to open a can of worms with this but these forums, official or not have never been the place to distribute any gig recordings and it doesnt start now. I'm talking about complete gigs here. I'm not complaining at all about clips. What I was trying to say wasnt intended to stop you; more to say that a place more suited to these discussions is RTSR. Its always been that way. What Todd says, and what Jan touched on I wholeheartedly agree with.

Sorry for the confusion. :o

Jan: I agree that RTSR needs an overhaul, and the page at rtsr.rowla.com is old. However, the overview there is still pretty valid, and the yahoo group is still very active. You don't need a yahoo address anymore though, and there is a torrent tracker for large FLACs as well as an FTP for the smaller mp3 files.

Re: Tonite's broadcast - London Part 2 Oct 18
 

how's the membership activation speed of RTSR these days stimp? I remember hearing that sometimes people had to wait for weeks before being accepted into RTSR. I can imagine this might turn people off who are looking for shows.

Re: Tonite's broadcast - London Part 2 Oct 18
 

i'm not quite sure what you mean by 'forum'..

the web interface for yahoogroups, is almost easier
to use that the dirtyforums. you just have to access
it through 'groups.yahoo.com', instead of just subscribing
to it, and looking at the emails..

later
-1

Re: Tonite's broadcast - London Part 2 Oct 18
 

I activate people almost everyday. But there might have slipped a few of course.

Re: Tonite's broadcast - London Part 2 Oct 18
 

I disagree. The Yahoo message archive is decidedly inferior to a forum like this one. If RTSR had a fo.... the discussion could be categorized. Like, for example, a forum for discussion of the 1995-1996 STITI tour, and a forum for the current tour disucssion. You could search on topic titles alone, instead of entire message content, like Yahoo. Informational threads, like download information, could be stickied for easy reference. How many e-mails have we had on the list that say "I'm sorry, I can't find it, where is the FTP information, and how do I log in?"

Re: Tonite's broadcast - London Part 2 Oct 18
 

Well i did say that it needs an overhaul. The archive isnt as good as this and neither is the forum. But its free, and the hosting is free and its been that way for years. And as lloyd says, approval is daily. Add to that the non-yahoo requirement and the new tracker and I think you can say that improvements have been made. Its far from perfect but it works. However, its still the place for bootlegs discussion. If you dont like it, dont use it. Now can we talk about something else?

Re: Tonite's broadcast - London Part 2 Oct 18
 

the search feature is especially usefull for that, by date, etc.
i use it all the time..you just have to be more specific in
your queries...but yes, it could be improved.
-1

Re: Tonite's broadcast - London Part 2 Oct 18
 

IT Was Masterpiece!!!!!! :)
Pis&Everything With All of U Dirtys and Ofcourse U Mark(aka m.g)
Unfortunatelly the third olndon gig.....Rick..well u oll know
Pis