Re: California overturns ban on same-sex marriage
 

The California Supreme Court is set to review prop 8 next March.

Opponents of the proposition are saying that "the measure was actually a constitutional revision, instead of a more limited amendment. A revision of the state Constitution can be placed before the voters only by a two-thirds vote of the Legislature or a constitutional convention".

Supporters are saying that "it merely amended the constitution by restoring a traditional definition of marriage", and that they'll "mount a recall of any justice who votes to overturn the measure".

Glad to see the threats have already begun. :rolleyes: Guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

Re: California overturns ban on same-sex marriage
 

Well, Californians are nothing if not reasonable.

No wait, did I say reasonable? I meant unreasonable. Unreasonable.

Re: California overturns ban on same-sex marriage
 

i'd ask if this wasnt almost transparently childish but these are the same voters who passed prop 11

whats with california getting extraordinarily stupid these days? usually we're just fumbly and entitled but this is actively egging on some sort of suburban crusade of the ignorant. jeez.

oh and is john finally coherent enough to look like a complete bullshitter to someone other than myself? top ho!

Re: California overturns ban on same-sex marriage
 

People here keep complaining that Californians have "taken over" Montana. So maybe we've stolen some of your liberals.

Re: California overturns ban on same-sex marriage
 

Story. End. Of.

http://graphjam.files.wordpress.com/...aymarriage.gif

Re: California overturns ban on same-sex marriage
 

And the prize goes to Chuck for my first LOL moment of the day! Excellent. :D

Re: California overturns ban on same-sex marriage
 

That is class Chuck!

Re: California overturns ban on same-sex marriage
 

you do have the appropriate landscape for the faux-meditative, guilt-ridden, desperate-for-'spirituality' kind that think the wilderness invokes some sort of innocent purity.

good luck with those.

Re: California overturns ban on same-sex marriage
 

O.K. yeah, but are you still thinking about me?

Re: California overturns ban on same-sex marriage
 

Maybe we gave you some of our God-fearing, gun-toting conservatives in the exchange?

Re: California overturns ban on same-sex marriage
 

They're probably all in Bakersfield and Orange County.

Re: California overturns ban on same-sex marriage
 

my dad sent me this hilarious postcard from bakersfield that was nothing but old oil rigs and desert

it is the worst place ever.

Re: California overturns ban on same-sex marriage
 

They also have cows.

One of my best friends is originally from there, so I've gotten to see some of the better side of Bakersfield too, like some great Basque restaurants, Buck Owen's Crystal Palace, and....um....I think that's it. But they certainly have no shortage of "God-fearing, gun-toting conservatives".

Re: California overturns ban on same-sex marriage
 

And I'm sure they're all so sexy thin.

Re: California overturns ban on same-sex marriage
 

Is Gordon Brown the first world leader to speak out against Prop 8?

Speaking at a reception held inside Downing Street last Thursday:

"What I saw in America tells me what we have got to do... This Proposition 8 in California, this attempt to undo good that has been done, this attempt to create divorces for 18,000 people who were perfectly legally brought together in partnerships... this is unacceptable and this shows why we have always got to be vigilant, always got to fight homophobic behaviour and any form of discrimination. I want to say to you all, you have broken new ground, you have shown what can be done, you have shown how you can change opinion in our country, you have shown how the legislative process, by your pressure, can respond."

It's all delivered in Brown's usual cack-handed way of course, but the sentiment (from someone who we're to believe is quite religious) should boost the morale of anyone seeking change in this area.

Re: California overturns ban on same-sex marriage
 

Well done Gordon Brown! It'll be interesting to see what the California Supreme Court's ruling on prop 8 is in the coming weeks. I have a feeling they won't overturn it, but who knows?

Re: California overturns ban on same-sex marriage
 

Well, California should be ashamed of itself, letting Iowa beat it to making same-sex marriage legal. The ruling stated that:

"We are firmly convinced the exclusion of gay and lesbian people from the institution of civil marriage does not substantially further any important governmental objective. The legislature has excluded a historically disfavored class of persons from a supremely important civil institution without a constitutionally sufficient justification."

Big surprise that there were no constitutional grounds for the ban, right? And again with the people I simply don't understand:

Diane Thacker’s eyes filled with tears as the ruling was read to a crowd opposed to gay marriage that had gathered on the north side of the judicial building.

“Sadness,” she whispered. “But I’m prayerful and hopeful that God’s word will stand.”

Thacker said she joined to group “because I believe in the marriage vow. I can’t see it any other way.”

And why doesn't she feel that the "marriage vow" would carry the same meaning for a same-sex couple as it would for an opposite-sex couple? "God's word", I guess. :rolleyes:

Re: California overturns ban on same-sex marriage
 

iowa has the advantage of not being in such close proximity to utah...

Re: California overturns ban on same-sex marriage
 

j: [italicks]crying profusely[end italicks] "I don't wanna get married, I don't wanna get married, no, no, no"

Re: California overturns ban on same-sex marriage
 

Very true.

And now Vermont's State House and Senate have both voted to allow same-sex marriage as well. Cheers, Vermont!

Re: California overturns ban on same-sex marriage
 

(WASHINGTON) — Mike Huckabee, a possible Republican presidential candidate in 2012, says the effort to allow gays and lesbians to marry is comparable to legalizing incest, polygamy and drug use.
Huckabee also told college journalists last week that gay couples should not be permitted to adopt. "Children are not puppies," he said.
Huckabee visited The College of New Jersey in Ewing, N.J., last Wednesday to speak to the Student Government Association. He also was interviewed by a campus news magazine, The Perspective, which published an article on Friday. (See a TIME photo essay on Mike Huckabee)
Huckabee told the interviewer that not every group's interests deserve to be accommodated, if their lifestyle is outside of what he called "the ideal."
"That would be like saying, well there's there are a lot of people who like to use drugs so let's go ahead and accommodate those who want to use drugs. There are some people who believe in incest, so we should accommodate them. There are people who believe in polygamy, should we accommodate them?" he said, according to a transcript of the interview. See "Portraits of the Tea Party Movement."

The 2008 presidential hopeful and former Arkansas governor also said that deciding which lifestyles should be accommodated and which ones should not creates a slippery slope. "Why do you get to choose that two men are OK but one man and three women aren't OK?" he asked.
Huckabee added that his goal isn't to tell others how to live, but that the burden of proving that a gay marriage can be successful rests with the activists in favor of changing the law. "I don't have to prove that marriage is a man and a woman in a relationship for life," he said. "They have to prove that two men can have an equally definable relationship called marriage, and somehow that that can mean the same thing."
Since the magazine published the interview, Huckabee's remarks have attracted considerable attention on the Web.
In a statement Tuesday, Huckabee said that while he believes what people do in their private lives is their business, "I do not believe we should change the traditional definition of marriage." He also said he thought the college magazine was sensationalizing his "well-known and hardly unusual views of same-sex marriage."

***

First things first, do share your weight loss secrets with us...

Re: California overturns ban on same-sex marriage
 

Wow. Huckabee just lost some of my respect. I mean, I already disagree with much of his ideology, but I always found him to be a pretty respectable guy in the way he spoke about virtually any subject. But this stuff is pretty low-brow.

Incidentally, I looked up more on this, and found an article that starts exactly as the one you copied here does, jOHN, but it also then goes on to include:

"In response to a 1992 questionnaire from The Associated Press, Huckabee, then a Senate candidate in Arkansas, spelled out his opposition to homosexuality, saying it was crucial that the country not 'legitimize immorality.'

'I feel homosexuality is an aberrant, unnatural, and sinful lifestyle,' he wrote, in response to a question about gays in the military.

He also advocated isolating AIDS patients from the general public, saying it was necessary to confine 'carriers of this plague.'

As governor, Huckabee supported an Arkansas policy that prevented same-sex couples from serving as foster parents. On gay marriage, he said in an interview, 'Marriage has historically never meant anything other than a man and a woman. It has never meant two men, two women, a man and his pet, or a man and a whole herd of pets.'"

Re: California overturns ban on same-sex marriage
 

What lifestyle is he talking about?
And what precisely is it that he fears from this lifestyle?
And does it pose a greater danger to society than a lifestyle of total celibacy?

(Excuse the language, but a nice big FUCK YOU goes out to Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone on that one.)

Re: California overturns ban on same-sex marriage
 

Yeah, I'm just waiting for the environmentalists to blame us for global warming next. Damn flamers. And then Paris Hilton's gonna say, 'yeah, they're hot.' & it will be official.

I'm, like, all depressed. Can someone get me some weed for my medical condition?


Party on guys, WE CAN ALWAYS BLAME THE GAYS!:

Re: California overturns ban on same-sex marriage
 

I was just coming here to post the same quote from Bertone. Unbelievable. For those who haven't read it yet, here's the quote from the Pope's right hand man:

"Many psychologists, many psychiatrists have demonstrated that there is no relationship between celibacy and pedophilia but many others have demonstrated, I was told recently, that there is a relationship between homosexuality and pedophilia."

Re: California overturns ban on same-sex marriage
 

One problem with this is that saying "there's a relationship" between homosexuality and paedophilia tells us nothing about the nature of the (supposed) relationship. Does one make the other more likely? Which one? Or are both made more likely by a third factor? And a fourth? It seems to me he's falling into that classic trap of seeing an apparent "correlation" but refusing to analyse it further because it's enough as it is to confirm his prejudices.

Of course that's assuming we can trust the source/methodology of this research in the first place. I have no problem with acknowledging genuine data, but right now I have my doubts about it.

In terms of the cases specifically involving the Catholic church, I've already read several odious posts remarking on why so many of the victims are boys rather than girls, how this reveals the truth about the 'connection' between paedophilia and homosexuality, and how the "PC brigade" won't let anyone admit it (ignoring the fact that their pathetic little comments have been published by the national newspapers). But the point is, surely it's relevant here that male priests are usually in charge of boys rather than girls, and that male priests (men) are more likely to sexually abuse than nuns (women)? Surely it's no surprise that child sexual abuse in the Catholic church will involve more boys than girls? Are people deliberately ignoring these factors?

Finally - pulling figures completely out my ass to make another point here - but if, for the sake of argument, 1% of heterosexuals were found to be inclined to paedophilia, compared with 4% of homosexuals, then yes we could bleat on about how homosexuals are "more inclined" to paedophilia than heterosexuals. But does that 3% difference make a strong moral case against homosexuality? Really?

And finally (again) - remind me again, why should anyone take moral guidance on homosexuality from celibate frocked men in an institution possibly swarming with sexual abuse? What a friggin joke.

Publicity stunt or not, Dawkins and Hitchens have my support in their plans to arrest the Pontiff when he steps foot in Britain. Just a shame no-one else was willing to step in and do it.

Re: California overturns ban on same-sex marriage
 

Oh come on.

You can't be hating on the Cardinal.

He's only telling you what he was told - he's a busy man - he doesn't have time to actually understand these things.

;)

Re: California overturns ban on same-sex marriage
 

It really is much more simple than this. And it has nothing to do with homosexuality nor heterosexuality, but sexuality in general biological functioning of the male human form. As always, I'm just waiting for the right moment...

Re: California overturns ban on same-sex marriage
 

I'm really hoping this actually happens. I doubt it will, but this molestation problem has been going on for a very, very long time, and with far too few consequences for the people who have perpetrated the actual crimes and been complicit in it all. I can't think of a clearer way to convey the message that no one will be excused for this kind of disgusting behavior - even the Pope.

It's just a shame that the effort is being led by high-profile atheists. I can already hear people defending the church and the Pope saying that it's all just motivated by atheist animosity towards religion, and not by wanting legitimate justice for sexual crimes perpetrated against children by the Catholic Church.

Re: California overturns ban on same-sex marriage
 

Yes, and I really don't understand the media inertia around this. People should be furious.

I thought Dawkins made a good point when he drew this analogy:

And what did I read this morning? A piece on why the Vatican media strategy is failing. :rolleyes:

Imagine a similar puff piece had any other individual or organisation been caught doing such things.

Re: California overturns ban on same-sex marriage
 

Too big to fail applies to many.

Re: California overturns ban on same-sex marriage
 

Well they've blamed it on the gays and blamed it on the jews.

Now a Mexican Bishop is blaming it on TV.

Excuse me?

"Not easy to respect children"?

A curious thing to say.

Not that I want to bash the Bishop (that's what he should be doing more of) but has he just revealed more about himself in a state of celibacy than he realised?

Re: California overturns ban on same-sex marriage
 

Oh Decks, you're always just so negative. LOOK ON THE BRIGHT SIDE OF THINGS, dammit.

I mean, at least now we will be allowed to watch our loved ones be sick in bed!!!


YYYYY......YYYa, YAY!!!!!

Re: California overturns ban on same-sex marriage
 

This is really just one step away from "the children deserved it...just look at them"

Re: California overturns ban on same-sex marriage
 

TIME's QUOTE OF THE DAY:


"If we put male hormones in a chicken and we make a homosexual eat it, he will transform into a heterosexual."

EVO MORALES, President of Bolivia, suggesting that eating hormone-injected chicken could turn gay men straight and straight men gay



". . . & cocaine makes people feel like they're the KING OF THE WORLD!!!"

John Rodriguez




***edit***

AAAAH, O.K.:


When Bolivian President Evo Morales took the stage to inaugurate the World People's Summit on Climate Change and the Rights of Mother Earth on Tuesday in Cochabamba, he gave his thousands of politically correct attendees a surprise. Somewhere between appealing for an international climate change court and questioning why the United Nations still uses plastic cups, Morales went after genetically modified foods — by making a comment that some think meant that hormones cause homosexuality.

"When we talk about chicken, it's pumped full of female hormones," Morales said, "and so when men eat this chicken they stray from being men" (tienen desviaciones en su ser como hombres in Spanish, literally). The comment went over non-Spanish speakers' heads and so wasn't until sundown that it had rippled its way through the 35,000-participant gathering. By the next morning, the international press had gotten wind of it, Bolivian newspapers plastered it on their front page and Spain's national LGBT federation had issued a statement calling the comment "homophobic."
(See the world's worst dressed leaders.)

The Morales government swears he meant no harm. "He made no mention of sexuality," the Foreign Relation's Ministry said on Thursday in response. "Rather, he said that eating chicken that has hormones changes our own bodies. This point of view has been confirmed by scientists and even the European Union has prohibited the use of some hormones in food," the government asserts, citing studies that have shown that sexual hormones in food can cause genital abnormalities in boys. The document has not assuaged all critics — especially since the Latin left, which Morales represents, has historically been considered less than sympathetic to homosexuals — but has taken some of the heat off Morales.
(See a history of gay rights in the U.S.)

Bolivia's president also called Coca-Cola the poor man's Drano. "If the plumber comes to your house and can't get the job done with all his tools," Morales quipped, "have him pour Coca-Cola down the clogged toilet and problem solved." This jab, however, was better received since Bolivians think that the beverage company unfairly benefits from the country's traditional coca leaf. The leaf, an integral part of indigenous culture here as well as the base ingredient for cocaine, is banned outside the Andes. Bolivia therefore can't export its popular tea, for example. However the U.N. Convention on Narcotics offers an exception when the leaf is used as a "flavoring agent." The Coca-Cola company refuses to disclose any part of their secret formula, but reporting suggests the coca leaf is still in the recipe. Morales' may have timed this one on purpose: Just last week, a small company in Bolivia introduced "Coca-Colla" into the local market (Colla refering to the native Andean highland people), a new soda/energy drink that proudly uses coca as a main ingredient.

Though the off-color remarks took center stage in the press, summit participants chalked it up to quirky humor and kept focus on what few consider a laughing matter — the growing climate crisis. Morales called for this "people's" summit back in January after what he and many in the global south saw as an unwillingness by developed world leaders to set out a sustainable path in Copenhagen. Workshops and panels in Cochabamba echoed with harsh criticism of the Copenhagen Accord's back-door birth and complaints that it falls short of what's needed to curb the problem.

"There is a cruel irony to climate change," Naomi Klein, author of the international bestsellers No Logo and The Shock Doctrine and who participated in the People's Summit, told TIME. "The poorest nations that did not create the problem are the ones who are feeling its effects most," she said, explaining that experts are predicting that the developing world is going to suffer 75% of the effects of climate change.

Bolivia is an example of this irony. The Andean nation's millennia-old glaciers are melting down to bare rock because of global warming that the country's nine million residents did little to create. Scientists here say that Bolivia's ice masses have lost 50% of their volume in the last 40 years alone. Yet this goes beyond mourning the slow death of great natural beauty. These glaciers provide 20% of drinking water for two of Bolivia's largest cities, La Paz and El Alto, as well the surrounding countryside, which combined make up almost a quarter of the country's population.

Moreover, this may be a warning for everyone, says Dirk Hoffman, head of the Climate Change program at Bolivia's largest university, Universidad Mayor de San Andres. He considers the glaciers a kind of environmental miner's canary: "They are extremely sensitive and so when they show their distress by melting, they are telling us that the rest of the planet is in great danger."

Since Bolivia is suffering the consequences of a sequence of conditions it did not cause, there's a debt to be paid, say some activists. For this nation, that could mean funding for projects like the construction of reservoirs. But, the idea goes, climate reparations is about more than just aid. It's about industrialized countries accepting responsibility by taking actions within their own borders to curb the problem: for example, 40% emissions reductions from 1990 levels by 2020, rather than the 13%-to-19% promised in Copenhagen. This debt idea has been met with harsh resistance. Todd Stern, the top U.S. climate negotiator in Copenhagen says that reparations on the scale the activists advocate — a cool $400 billion — is "wildly unrealistic."

Back on Tuesday's inaugural stage, speakers understood their uphill battle. As the smoke from the ceremonial coca leaf offering floated into the late morning air, representatives from Brazil, Nigeria and India said that it is time the world chooses between survival and destruction. But the vast gathering shows tenacity, despite the challenges. As Alaska Inter-Tribal Council member Faith Gemmil noted in her welcoming address: "Our people have faced destructive policies for centuries. And we are still here."



Read more: http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...#ixzz0lwN3jzwi

Re: California overturns ban on same-sex marriage
 

So the Pope has now come out saying that same sex marriage is one of the most "insidious and dangerous" threats to the world today. Now for some context, keep in mind that his strongest language regarding the many priests who have forced themselves sexually on defenseless children has been to call them "sins within the church". I just can't seem to view him as a moral authority for some strange reason...

Re: California overturns ban on same-sex marriage
 

You should have seen our Prime Ministerial candidates on TV recently, all three falling over themselves to express their utmost respect for the Pope. Just pathetic how religious leaders get this undeserved respect.

Re: California overturns ban on same-sex marriage
 

Anyone hear Laura Bush telling Larry King how she backs gay marriage?

That - along with the results of this snapshot of American attitudes towards gay marriage (PDF here) is encouraging.

http://i39.tinypic.com/288xs9x.png

Re: California overturns ban on same-sex marriage
 

I've never seen the generational gap on this issue so clearly portrayed. Really drives home the fact that it's only a matter of time...

Re: California overturns ban on same-sex marriage
 

ugh, just look at the bottom 10 states on the Y axis.

if you divided up georgia and polled atlanta vs the rest of this godforsaken state you'd see a very divided picture. rednecks are ruining it for everyone.