Re: Hamas announces 6-month truce with Israel
 

Agreed...I was only commenting on what has actually been reported at this point. But yes, what's been reported isn't necessarily chock-full of details or clear timelines.

Re: Hamas announces 6-month truce with Israel
 

Oh please, just drop the antagonistic tone Jason. It only makes you come across as a dick - as does trying to reduce my position to a simple black and white "Israel = bad". I'm actually more than happy to have my mind changed on things, and when I do, it typically comes from constructive civil posts like Sean's rather than dickhead ones like yours. Dialogue and progess are funny things like that.

Sean, I largely agree with you, but I just think it's not the whole story. As BB says, the key challenge in any peace process is not to retaliate when militants (whether it's Islamic Jihad or the Real IRA) try to sabotage it. I understand retaliation to defend yourself, but when it's done in a tit-for-tat way, and when it undoes any progress that's been painstakingly made, the militants have won. It really is as simple as that. The fact that the militants are Palestinian (like the fact that the NI militants were Irish Republican) makes it hard for Israel, but it does not change that simple fact. BOTH parties – Israel AND Hamas – have to hold their nerve, and as BB says, not retaliate in an over-egged way. And yes, also unequivocably condemn (and take reasonable actions to stop) the actions of the militants. Had the Unionists always allowed terror attacks and assassinations by the Real IRA to derail the peace process, then we would not have the peace that we do now. Remember, we still don't have a United Ireland, but neither do we have the IRA letting off bombs in our cities. 20 years ago, that would have been unthinkable.

Re: Hamas announces 6-month truce with Israel
 

LOL

So what's the year long israeli economic blockade then? Even handed defense? So we can call suicide bombers of civilians terrorists but putting a knife to the throats of thousands of sick impoverished civilians isn't?

chalk me up as someone else who doesn't get it mate


Here's how I see it, which is exactly what Sean said, only it adds the, you know, the other fucking half of the story. That is not to say it contradicts Sean either. But it certainly seems to be contradicting you

"It is high time that the leaders of Hamas and the Palestinian Authority (PA) took effective steps to prevent and punish attacks on civilians in Israel," said Malcolm Smart, "but their failure to do so does not make it legitimate for the Israeli authorities to launch reckless air and artillery strikes which wreak such death and destruction among Palestinian civilians.

AND

"Israel has a legal obligation to protect the civilian population of Gaza,” said Malcolm Smart, director of Amnesty International's Middle East and North Africa Programme. “These attacks are disproportionate and go beyond lawful measures which Israeli forces may take in response to rocket attacks by Palestinian armed groups."

http://www.commondreams.org/news2008/0303-03.htm

Re: Hamas announces 6-month truce with Israel
 

Ah well - so much for common-sense prevailing :(

Israel closes Gaza after rockets

Still, I guess it took the spotlight off Olmert and his alleged dodgy dealings for a few days.... and seems to have saved his political ass to fight another day.

Re: Hamas announces 6-month truce with Israel
 

What the hell? :eek:

Hamas leader Khalil al-Haya said the group remained committed to the six-day-old ceasefire with Israel and it had called on all Palestinian groups to respect it.

However, he said that Hamas would not act as Israel's "police force" in confronting militants who breached the truce.

So taking responsibility for and doing what you can to stop rockets being launched from Palestinian territories into Israel is considered acting as "Israel's 'police force'", and you'll have none of it? That's just some brazenly flawed thinking. You're the ruling party, Hamas! It's your freakin' responsibility to make sure attacks aren't being launched on Israel from your territory!

I wish they'd tell us more about the Israeli raid in Gaza that supposedly sparked the rocket attacks. What were the goals that motivated it? How did the raid unfold that two people were killed? Who were the two people killed...militants or civilians?

Re: Hamas announces 6-month truce with Israel
 

Yeah - here is Al-Jazeera's take on it, which will evidently give a pro-Palestinian account. The West Bank seems to be the sticking point. Still doesn't give any details about who the two men in Nablus were that were killed.

This is the kind of bizarre political-speke that I just can't get to grips with:
So is Israel saying that, because the ceasefire doesn't apply to the West Bank, it is ok for them to take military action in the West Bank, but not ok for Al-Quds to respond, presumably from the West Bank? This whole process is set up to fail if that is their understanding of it.

Re: Hamas announces 6-month truce with Israel
 

I don't get that reading from what he said. Can you elaborate on how you extrapolated that from his comments? Just trying to follow...

Found out more about the raid that supposedly sparked this whole tense situation. This is from Ynet news, which does tend to favor Israel in it's reporting.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...559494,00.html

And just to round it out, here's a shamelessly pro-Palestinian account of it. I've gotta be honest, this account sounds like total BS propaganda to me:

http://www.imemc.org/article/55617

Re: Hamas announces 6-month truce with Israel
 

I find it hard to understand quite what was meant at all really. Which is why this business of the ceasefire not affecting the West Bank is going to be so difficult to police. I really don't know whether the Israelis think that that applies to both sides or whether they are just reserving themselves the right to operate as they see fit in the West Bank without retaliation. It is mightily screwed up imo.

As for the two links, they are both likely to be biased one way or the other imo. Difficult to say what is happening overall.

The bright side is that there don't appear to have been any incidents one way or another, or at least none that have made the mainstream news over here... so fingers crossed.

Re: Hamas announces 6-month truce with Israel
 

I'd say this commentary on today's bulldozer attack (from Seth Freedman) is pretty much spot-on.

I was going to quote some of it, but there's too much I want to quote, so I'll just recommend you go read it if you get a moment.

Re: Hamas announces 6-month truce with Israel
 

awesome read. i'd like to know Jason's reaction.