Re: my thoughts on the releases
 

insult retracted, handshake offered! :)

Re: my thoughts on the releases
 

I think all of us here given the choice would like to buy a physical CD/DVD/vinyl product. I like the fact that we get the photos with comments from Karl which is good stuff and we get some sort of artwork to go with it but its not the same.

I too like my Underworld to come on a shiny disc with an inlay in a box. There are ways in which this distribution method can be seen as a positive step forward:

1) it gets the music to the fans quickly (sidestepping middlemen/shops)
2) it allows for things such as photos to be bundled (admittedly you could do that with CD/DVD but not with vinyl)
3) its a far cheaper method as there is no physical storage medium cost, only bandwidth cost (which the £5 more than covers)
4) youre not limited to the lengths of vinyl/cd (i.e. 80mins per CD, much less for vinyl)

However, I see negative points about this as apart from the first one, in which the time thing is negligable anyway, the other points seem to benefit the distributors and not the consumers. The negative points I'm seeing from this (some are fixable) are:

1) fans want holdable product
2) they want separate tracks they can shuffle around/skip to
3) they want the highest possible quality
4) they want artwork and tracklistings

Apart from the holdable product thing, and to a certain extent the artwork thing, these can be solved in the future, even with downloads. For the separate tracks I've had to make my own CUE files and chop the files up without losing quality which brings me to the third point. 192kbps mp3's are good quality and the average user can't tell the difference but no matter what, the fact does stand that it is of poorer quality than CD and that can't be denied so it is a step backwards. UW do offer artwork but its not really complete. Its not full cover/inlay CD size ready to print with full tracklisting and timings. I've had to modify it and extract it from the PDF myself and make my own. Not an ideal solution.

So, what is the solution? Well, we all know that this is an ongoing experiment and maybe in the future they will listen to us and offer some alternatives or (in our eyes) improvements. You can't sidestep the holdable product thing unless you burn your own cd, but if you do you could also offer CUE files for people who want to burn to cd, you could offer fuller printable artwork for front and back covers (and cd?) and also offer the audio in a lossless format. Would that make people feel better? quite possibly. It wouldnt be the same as getting it in a shop but you would have your own CD that you made (of course, requiring cd burner and printer).

I think the band have to find a way to make digital product feel more personal. A difficult task but maybe the above solutions in the long run are the answer. For now, having Underworld product that I have modified and printed the artwork, split the tracks and burned to CD is OK for me but it does take up a lot of my time to do this.

As an additional note about people wanting to split the tracks up (me included), why didnt we want to split up Juanita/Kiteless/To Dream Of Love, Banstyle/Sappys Curry or Shudder/King Of Snake? After all, Juanita, Banstyle and King Of Snake were split off when they were released/remixed on singles.

Until then //\/\/, why not get a dog? ;)

Re: my thoughts on the releases
 

That pretty much sums it up!

Re: my thoughts on the releases
 

because Banstyle/Sappys feels like one track, with a similar feel throughout. If you were in the mood for one, you were in the mood for both. for all intents, Sappys, IS one track. and shudder (the most fast-forwarded 45secs of any underworld CD i own) is too short to give a damn about. i hated that Shudder was attached to KoS and made a few posts about that back in the day.

when i listen to RRP, i 1) dont always wanna listen to 25min and 2) am not always in the mood to hear Peggy Sussed when i want to listen to Lenny Penne.

Re: my thoughts on the releases
 

Yes I agree with Stimpee.
I can add, that vinyl release is still something special.
Im sure that you know what Im talking about...

Save the vinyl;)

Re: my thoughts on the releases
 

i feel exactly the same way. having a 'file' doesn't feel like you've bought a new record. it's just not the same.

Re: my thoughts on the releases
 

i'm with ian on this (and also stimpee)...

especially, being the superfan i am, holding product is what its all about....so what if you own 5000 mp3 tracks of underworld, thats bollocks...(it didn't take me long to acquire the entire KLF back cat on mp3, including super rare tracks, but it kinda feels 'hollow' owning these on my computer, to actually owning the physical product...if i had the actual vinyl i'd feel sorta more complete inside....

...i know its about the music, in the end and i'm all for people getting to hear the music in any format, but actually owning the stuff sorta makes it feel right...just look at the growth in the sales of 7" vinyl in 2005... a fan based medium that you can hold...indie kids are leading the way again, but they are also creating the buzz with downloads...look at the artic monkeys for example....so its a double edged sword...

sadly the rise in vinyl sales (up 87%) pales into significance against sales of 'legal' downloads...up 743% over the past year (also makes you wonder how much illegal downloads have increased)

anyway...we know for sure that with Underworld there will be physical product coming this year (2006), as Karl has already hinted at, and Steve at JBO has confirmed to me that he is working on several vinyl releases of remixes of the 'pizza' and 'lovely' tracks (which, i expect also to appear on cd...being as i already own a couple of promos of new stuff....)

anyhow ian don't fret, i'm with you, these 'improvs' are a bit 'strange' but you'll be able to buy something this year for sure...start queing at HMV soon....

lets hope we are notified by someone official rather than having to read it on Channel 4 text....

Re: my thoughts on the releases
 

Bah! Luddites! ;)

Re: my thoughts on the releases
 

I thought that the boys released this stuff on download only basically because they wouldn't be able to release it any other way. There are a lot of restrictions, qualatative and quantatative, when releasing something traditionally, and quite frankly I don't think that these releases would sell all that well on CD or vinyl (and I'm sure that there's be loads of complaints up on the boards: not long enough, too self indulgent etc etc). The Riverrun project is an experiment, not a normal release. Rick and Karl have always created masses and masses of music between albums and releases, far more than any of us have heard, and the Riverrun project is a chance for us to see some of this, a chance we have basically never been given before.

In other words, I don't think that there was ever an option between CD or MP3 release, the option was between MP3 or no release at all. Personally, I am more than happy to pay money for this extra insight, money that goes directly to my favourite artist rather than their record company, and I think that it's fairly unnapreciative to complain when you don't like the format.

Seriously, Underworld do more than their fans than any other band I've ever heard of: CDs, vinyl, books, remixes, DVDs, downlaods, concerts, concert recordings and broadcasts, web-broadcasts, radio DJing, tolleration of online trading of live bootlegs, web-books, shoes, posters, dog-tags, iron on T-shirts, a website that is updated daily, the list really does go on and on. Riverrun is yet another example of their diversity, a magical insight into the everyday jamming of Rick and Karl that we simply would not have if it weren't for MP3 release. Can we really complain?

And incase you're still wondering, Karl and Rick pretty much say the same thing in their press release to lovely broken thing:

Re: my thoughts on the releases
 

(if you look at the title of the thread, it's called "thoughts" not "complaints")

is riverrun a way of supporting the boys financially between trad-format releases? that's another thought...