Re: Holy fucked up healthcare reform Batman!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

State officials are concerned the burden of providing healthcare will fall to them without enough federal support.
Eleven of the attorneys general plan to band together in a collective lawsuit on behalf of Alabama, Florida, Michigan, Nebraska, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Texas, Utah and Washington.
"Congress' attempt to force Michigan families to buy health insurance -- or else -- raises serious constitutional concerns," said Michigan Attorney General Mike Cox. "We will fight to defend the individual rights and freedoms of Michigan citizens against this radical overreach by the federal government."
The state attorneys general say the reforms infringe on state powers under the Constitution's Bill of Rights.
Virginia Attorney General Kenneth Cuccinelli, who plans to file a lawsuit in federal court in Richmond, Virginia, said Congress lacks authority under its constitutional power to regulate interstate commerce to force people to buy insurance. The bill also conflicts with a state law that says Virginians cannot be required to buy insurance, he added.
"If a person decides not to buy health insurance, that person by definition is not engaging in commerce," Cuccinelli said in recorded comments. "If you are not engaging in commerce, how can the federal government regulate you?"
Forrest McDonald, a retired University of Alabama history professor who has written a book on states' rights, said Congress has no power to make someone buy something.
"You can stretch it all to hell and you're going to find a lot of power, but you can't find the power to make me buy a car or anything," he said.
But Mark Rosen, a Constitution scholar at Chicago-Kent College of Law, said the states do not really have a constitutional leg to stand on.
"Congress has clear authority to pass this type of legislation and under the supremacy clause that makes federal law supreme," he said.
Pennsylvania Governor Ed Rendell, a Democrat, blasted the lawsuit, saying: "It's a waster of taxpayer money and it's nothing more than political grandstanding," he told reporters.
Several Democratic governors released statements in support of the healthcare reform bill.
States have also cited the 10th Amendment of the Constitution, which states that "powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states," as proof that the U.S. government cannot set their healthcare laws.
In addition to the pending lawsuits, bills and resolutions have been introduced in at least 36 state legislatures seeking to limit or oppose various aspects of the reform plan through laws or state constitutional amendments, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.
So far, only two states -- Idaho and Virginia -- have enacted laws, while an Arizona constitutional amendment is seeking voter approval on the November ballot. But the actual enactment of the bill by President Barack Obama could spur more movement on the measures by state lawmakers.
Tea Party groups in Ohio planned to unveil a proposed constitutional amendment later on Monday aimed at shielding the state's residents from "financial burdens and individual mandates" related to the federal healthcare changes.
As is the case on the Congressional level, partisan politics is in play on the state level, where no anti-healthcare reform legislation has emerged in Democrat-dominated states like Illinois and New York, according to the NCSL.
Florida Attorney General Bill McCollum, a Republican candidate running for governor, said the mandate would cost Florida at least $1.6 billion in Medicaid alone.
All states would receive extra funding to cover Medicaid costs, which are expected to rise under the reform, including 100 percent federal coverage for new enrollees under the plan through 2016.
Medicaid is the healthcare program for the poor jointly administered by the states and federal government.

Re: Holy fucked up healthcare reform Batman!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

The health care reform bill to be signed Tuesday by President Obama would give the IRS a new mandate to enforce some of the initiative's key provisions -- but apparently not the means to do so.
Under the Senate bill approved Sunday by the House, the Internal Revenue Service would be called on to ensure Americans are obtaining health care insurance and businesses are offering it, or else they could face fines. Many would receive subsidies to help pay for insurance.
The emphasis is on incentives for healthy people to buy insurance, thereby spreading the risk of older, less healthy people over a broader pool of customers. For those earning between $22,050 and $88,200, there are tax credits for health insurance premiums. In addition, individuals initially face fines of up to $750 for not buying in; businesses would face fines of up to $3,000.
It will cost the IRS $5 billion to $10 billion over 10 years to handle the new workload, according to a March 11 estimate by the Congressional Budget Office. But the Senate bill doesn’t provide any funding for the expansion of the IRS, and it virtually ties the hands of the IRS to collect fees on individuals and businesses who don’t buy health insurance.
“The use of liens and seizures otherwise authorized for collection of taxes does not apply to the collection of this penalty," according to the non-partisan Joint Committee on Taxation. "Non-compliance with the personal responsibility requirement to have health coverage is not subject to criminal or civil penalties under the code and interest does not accrue for failure to pay such assessments in a timely manner."

That means there’s virtually nothing the IRS can do to enforce the fines in the legislation, forcing the tax man to rely on the consciences of taxpayers or to skim off any federal benefits, tax credits or refunds they have coming to them.
"In other words, if you're due a refund or some other federal benefit, and you didn't obtain qualified insurance, your refund or benefit will be tapped for your fee,” said Bill Ahearn, director of policy and communications for the Tax Foundation.
“People who aren't due any refunds or federal benefits will apparently face no collection action, as the IRS's hands will be effectively tied and it will be a truly voluntary tax."
Supporters of the bill, however, believe that while the IRS needs to be able to enforce the fines, it’s unlikely that the agency's inability to do so will give people a reason not to buy into health care.
“Surveys routinely show that people don't pay for health care because they can't afford it,” said Timothy Jost, a professor at Washington & Lee University Law School. “This bill gives them a way they can afford it.”

Re: Holy fucked up healthcare reform Batman!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Re: Holy fucked up healthcare reform Batman!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Mongoose - do you ever have an opinion of your own?

Eikman - LOL, god bless America!

Re: Holy fucked up healthcare reform Batman!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

i'm beyond thrilled that the health care reform measure passed. is it perfect upon first draft? nope. but no government program has ever been perfect upon first draft. we pass the initial measure to prove that it's our desire to fix what's broken. we then work to tweak, tweak, tweak until it's right.

we rank at the bottom of the list for life span in the developed world. we rank at the top of the list for infant mortality in the developed world. right wing pundits and their parrot followers are happy to inform you that the US has the best medical system in the world. but we're dying younger and saving fewer newborns than any other developed nation.

people want to polarize this issue, we either have the best system of care or the worst. we either want all free market or a communist *gasp!* public option. but the truth, as with everything, lies inbetween. we have a great medical system for those who are fortunate enough to satisfy the right requirements to have care subsidized by private group insurance. we have a terrible medical system for anyone who suffers a catastrophic medical event. go home and look at your insurance policy and look for the "lifetime limit" provision. what is it, a million bucks? do you have any idea how quickly you can eat through a million bucks on a single catastrophic accident or illness? and what if that event happens when you're 35? you've now got a pre-existing condition and a lifetime cap on the only policy that would cover you so you're up shit creek without a paddle.

we have a fantastic medical system with lots opportunities for technologically cutting edge treatment options and lots of choices of care providers. none of that will change. and if you think it will change please quantify exactly what will change. preferably in your own words, without cutting/pasting from another pundit's rant.

what will change is that the people who have struggled financially to stay within the restraints of the current system will have to struggle less. those of us with children with preexisting conditions won't have to worry daily that our policies will kick them out. we won't have to worry about raising half a million in cash to afford a lung transplant because insurance imposed a cap mid-treatment or kicked us off of our policies.

everyone is so het up about this whole dichotomy of "good vs evil," "right vs left," "commusocialifascism vs GOD BLESS AMERICA LAND 'O THE FREE DONT TREAD ON ME" that we've totally lost the ability to look at the actual practical implications of this reform package and see what's really there.

i'm just glad it passed.

and i'll tell you what, let's pick this discussion up in 6 months when it goes into effect and we'll reminisce about the good old days, before america collapsed and zombie stalin rose from the grave and the minions of radical commusocialifascism swept the nation injecting old people with cancer.

Re: Holy fucked up healthcare reform Batman!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

p.s. i always have to laugh at the people who are convinced funding for every government program comes directly out of their income taxes. taxation comprehension fail.

here's a pro tip: the government derives funding from many sources. taxes are one, and individual income taxes are just one portion.

Re: Holy fucked up healthcare reform Batman!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

but rush told me it was true http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/dai...107.guest.html so you must be wrong :confused::confused::confused:

Re: Holy fucked up healthcare reform Batman!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Well said on all counts. And your final point is what I'm personally most curious to see. When all the impending lawsuits challenging the constitutionality of this bill have been lost, when no "death panels" show up at anyone's door to kill anyone's grandmother, when we don't become a communist nation, when the practical benefits of the bill have been experienced by a significant portion of the population, when our taxes don't skyrocket, and when our country doesn't spiral into bankruptcy, how will those who have been spouting all this politically motivated rhetoric react? I'm sure they'll just come up with a whole new set of lies....

Re: Holy fucked up healthcare reform Batman!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Wow. He's already laying the foundation for how this will be a failure:

"Ladies and gentlemen, now that we have health care reform, we should expect Obama's approval numbers to skyrocket, right? Not just get a bump. Everybody's talking about a "bump" that he might get 'cause he got it done. We should expect them to skyrocket because of health care reform. This is what we were told. We should expect the budget deficit to immediately start going down. This is what we were told. And employment should shoot straight up, right? These were all the promised benefits that we are breathlessly sitting around and waiting for."

So despite the fact that none of these things were ever "promised", or even claimed by anyone actually working for this reform, Limbaugh will be able to shout "failure!" if Obama's approval numbers don't "skyrocket", if the defecit doesn't "immediately" start going down, and if employment doesn't "shoot straight up". How many devoted listeners does this guy have? Frightening.


And just for laughs, check out this photo gallery from the final tea party protest leading up to Sunday's vote. I always get a kick out of how blatantly white the entire crowd is. Although picture #20 shows a surprising amount of diversity, staring you right in the face...

Re: Holy fucked up healthcare reform Batman!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

yeah; palin suddenly says you should take notice of protesters in washington - in fact demands it. of course, when the protests were against the war....

but if it's white outrage you want, look no further than good ol' michelle malkin's site to be stirring up the folks http://michellemalkin.com/2010/03/23...-in-obamacare/