Darren Emerson leaving UW was the worst thing that happened to the band!

[Disco dave]

plain and simple!

Everything Everything gave UW the exposure the deserved for being so incredibly sick when they play live!

the only bummer was that after Darren left, the shows were simply not nearly as good at they were pre 2000

enough said!

[Dirty0900]

Oooooooo thats gonna cause some debate;)

I think as a duo, it wasnt as slick and Rick counter quite intermix everything whilst having a chance to mess around with the songs structure and control the audience. With the addition of Mr Price, I think the shows are back to their best, lots of songs from the past with new ones for the casual fan alongside some cracking visuals.

Do you mean just live as well? Coz if you check the Dubno production credits, you may be in for a shock...

[dubman]

why do people write 'enough said' at the end of deliberately inflammatory posts
clearly there is a lot more to be said from people that disagree with you

but i'd say you'd be almost right up until the previous leg.
but i'll let ol' farts get all bunched up about how the recent shows were best ever and all that because they might give a damn about how this thread turns out.

[Mike]

Well, whilst the comment was quite flippent, ive always agreed that i havent enjoyed the live material as much since the 1999/2000 era..

I know that a lot of the equipment changed for the start of the 2002 festival tour, and it created a new sound. The energy remains, but the anticipation of improvised gems has gone.

I remember reading (or hearing) somewhere that rick had been really keen on recreating the original album sounds in a live format (not sure exactly what that means, but i guess trying to recreate the original recording as closley as possible... i will try to find the interview)..

Rick has the ability to do what he wants with the sound... during 2000, they played many shows where it was just rick and karl, and they sounded terrific! Roskilde 2000 anyone? Born Slippy --> Confusion - Juanita --> Spoonman - New Banstyle --> Nuxx

It sounded really creative and fresh.

I dont think the absence of Darren has influenced much, i think its just the choice of direction that the guys have decided to follow.

[viddy]

Dave comes back and starts slinging mud.....but I have to agree....

[khouri]

The immediate post-Emerson shows demonstrated a noticeable, um, downgrade, I agree, but since then the band has redefined their live sound in a way that I comfortably recognize as Underworld. I love the Emerson era but when I listen to that '90s stuff it tends to sound dated (sometimes very dated, like that Sonar show) whereas the new shows -- particularly from 2005 onward -- sound like a reenergized and retooled band with a more timeless sound.

[Dirty0900]

Recent UWlive posts are showing the bands push in the live arena to either make things easier for Rick and make shows more improved, or to make a smaller rig

[TheBang]

I remember reading (or hearing) somewhere that rick had been really keen on recreating the original album sounds in a live format (not sure exactly what that means, but i guess trying to recreate the original recording as closley as possible... i will try to find the interview)..
I'd definitely be interested in that interview if you find it, Mike. Pre-2000, a lot of the songs had different sounds and feels from the album versions. For example, just listen to Air Towel, Juanita, NUXX, and Dark Train from any of the 1996 shows. A lot of differences, sometimes radically so, from the studio versions. If you listen to 2000 or later performances of those same songs, they are much closer to the album versions. I always assumed that was Darren's doing, and Rick returned them to sounding more like the studio versions once he left.

[holden]

In 1994, 95, 96, the improvs were longer, the mixes more continuous, but also, the tracks less well-known and the band less-popular. But unless one was recording what happened behind the desk, one really can't say how much was Darren and how much was Rick.
Anything else is speculation.

[jose m]

i really don't think that the equipment the guys were using on stage was up to doing both faithful versions of the album tracks and the loopy jams they were playing at the time,there was more of a live mixing desk thing going on and there were no computers.
the "album" versions appeared with the advances in the equipment not the changes in personel.

[34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j]

In 1994, 95, 96, the improvs were longer, the mixes more continuous, but also, the tracks less well-known and the band less-popular. But unless one was recording what happened behind the desk, one really can't say how much was Darren and how much was Rick.
Anything else is speculation.

Yeah, but I think it's only natural for a band to do less of that stuff as they evolve. I mean the modern UW has like 100 different tracks to choose from. '94-'96 was before "King of Snake", "Moaner", "Jumbo", and "Push Upstairs" had to be played every show.

I think the OP has a point, I don't think that AHDO or OWB are as good as dubno, STITI, or even BF, but they've released an awful lot of good material regardless. I really did enjoy the last two Riverruns and there seems to be plenty of A-grade unreleased material sitting around based on the radio broadcasts and live shows.

[potatobroth]

I know its been mentioned but its worth pointing out more obviously that Darren Emerson is only accredited to Surfboy on the Dubno album. All the rest are Smith/Hyde.

[oceanic]

And, for me, Surfboy is by far the least original, creative and experimental track on Dubno. It took me over a decade of Underworld listening to believe that Darren wasn't a vital part of their sound, but stuff like Faxed Invitation, Moon in Water, Beautiful Burnout/Biro The Leggy, Peach Tree and the RiverRun projects have made me believe it.

[bazwint]

I love UW in any shape or form but it would be interesting to hear what Darren could add to the mix right now, if you'll excuse the pun. I don't think it would be a backward step to collaborate on a couple of tracks, and a show or two together would be awesome.

Interesting to hear Skyscaper bookending his (excellent) GU Bogota set - I've seen him three times and never heard him play any Underworld. Perhaps the time is right.

[DaddyAdv]

By mere coincidence, I stumbled across this interview with Rick from 2000 about the making of the EE DVD:

http://mixonline.com/mag/audio_underworld_live/


On a more sort of spiritual level, I had a feeling at the time that we weren't going to be performing in that way much longer. It was sort of a look in Karl's eyes that I recognized; we've been together for nearly 20 years now. And I just thought, "We're not going to keep this up like this." The way we were performing the material where the energy level had risen to a certain point and the pace of things was really fast. And I thought, "This has got a limited life span," in terms of live performance. As it turns out, with Darren leaving the band earlier this year, I was kind of right in a different way.

[Futuregrapher]

Darren Emerson leaving was the best thing happening to the band.

Why?

A Hundred Days Off
Riverrun
Oblivion With Bells
&
all these lovely, lovely broadcasts and internet activity.

Those things would never have been released / happened if Darren Emerson would have stayed in the band.

As much as I like Mr. Emerson, I love life when he's outside of Underworld.

AND we also have another Darren.

peace.

[holden]

Those things would never have been released / happened if Darren Emerson would have stayed in the band.

As much as I like Mr. Emerson, I love life when he's outside of Underworld.

AND we also have another Darren.

peace.


It IS nice to have another Darren among the ranks, isn't it? Pricey seems like a very nice guy, with a taste for doughnuts and some awesome electro track productions!

Well, who knows if the sort of post-Emerson output could still have happened if Emerson had stayed. But yeah, Rick's quote from the interview does suggest they were looking for something a little less immediate dancefloor-and-forget-it, a little more, dare i say intelligent dance music (yeah, i know, UW is hardly classified as IDM in the general sense of the genre). Anyway, OWB was described by karl as "the album that Rick wanted to make", so they've clearly got the balance right.

Before we knew that the likes of "Aquafunk" or "Shake that Higher" were actually Price's compositions, i was intrigued with the new direction that UW was presumably taking - these tracks fit in great with their originals. So, i'm all for his extra hands and tracks behind the desk. As for Emerson, he seemed to add similar elements, if perhaps in a more conventional dance direction.

[Lx_Nen]

Personally, I think the only lasting downside of Emerson leaving is that AHDO was a weak album, because UW felt the need to stop making music that came naturally and deliver huge slabs of beat in order to prove they could still make 'dance music' without their DJ.

It's true that we no longer have the seamless hour-long meandering jam gigs that we used to love so much, but I'm not sure that they would be compatible with the way UW's sound has grown up these days.

[potatobroth]

It's true that we no longer have the seamless hour-long meandering jam gigs that we used to love so much, but I'm not sure that they would be compatible with the way UW's sound has grown up these days.

Atlanta wasn't far off from a constant live mix. So Em's shows featured 10% more streaming than some of their recent shows? No biggie.

[Dirty0900]

Hmm if you don't think they can improv, watch this version of Crocodile when it all goes a bit wrong [around 2.18]. Theres something locked away in Rick's desk if an emergency happens:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMCeQjDcJJg

[34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j]

The track "Yard Beat" from the Live in Tokyo 2005 set was Price's right? That was a huge highlight for me (esp. the way it leads into "Jumbo" - just seems like a great jam track).

[//\/\/]

my fave live shows were all emerson ones - once he'd gone and the improvs went things got dull live - no flow, too close to the album versions, predictable.

pricey back, whatever it is he's doing, seems to have brought back a certain degree of playfulness again.

underworld may not be missing emerson (though ahdo sucked balls big time - put that down to coincidence if you like...), but underworldlive certainly did from what i saw...

[TheBang]

The track "Yard Beat" from the Live in Tokyo 2005 set was Price's right?
Yup, studio version available at http://www.myspace.com/infodarrenprice

[Mike]

The track "Yard Beat" from the Live in Tokyo 2005 set was Price's right?

Brucey Bonus ;)

[//\/\/]

though i far prefer 'can you feel this bass?' - was gutted that it wasn't part of the roundhouse gig i was at...

[big screen satellite]

when did Emerson leave...?

shit i missed that...

*mourns*

[//\/\/]

sorry matt - i was on holiday; got back and he was gone....

[stimpee]

not to sound like a total fanboy, but i've been to a lot of underworld gigs and though i've had my bitching session about certain tours not sounding as good as before, things have improved immensely since Pricey joined.

The 1994-96 gigs were incredible because the band could jam and explore every possibility of all the loops and melodies theyd put to disk in the studio, with the added freedom that the crowd werent there to hear "the hits".

Everything Everything which covers the live period between late 97 to mid 99 is an evolution of the earlier period while the jamming is sort of gone, it morphs from song to song and still includes the epic non-singles (e.g. juanita/cups/rowla/kittens). I think after that it was the end of the road for that setlist. When you combine new equipment, a band member leaving, and new material you have to re-think your whole live output. While I wasnt a big fan of the 2001-02-03 tours, listening back to them they sound a lot better than i remember, even if they are more stop-start.

With Price on board Rick can concentrate on things and overlap the tunes, or let Darren stick his own tunes on (which are damn good) while he sets up the next one. By the time the autumn of 2005 came along Pricey was very familiar with the setup as anyone who witnessed the two 013/Tilburg shows or the Luxembourg show the following day will confirm. Three hours each show with plenty of flow, plenty of new tunes and old ones dusted off, and a real happy feel on stage.

Right now the shows are as good as they have been since 99 for me, and I'm approaching 30 gigs since 1994. Nice post dave, but its borderline trolling and you need to come back and backup your claims.

[heavens_night]

Hmm if you don't think they can improv, watch this version of Crocodile when it all goes a bit wrong [around 2.18]. Theres something locked away in Rick's desk if an emergency happens:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMCeQjDcJJg


They turned a minor disaster into an 'a capella' .... Love it. They definitely still know how to improvise. :)

[potatobroth]

HMH '05 is an amazing stream of tracks with improvs. They are as good as with Emerson at this point.

[viddy]

Karl Hyde is all Underworld. What does Rick do? NOTHING. The singer is the one who does everything.

[Camiel]

Please! Bring Alan back!

Oops... wrong forum and thread.

[bazwint]

:D

Just been on that forum. Mad, or what? :)

[undarrenworld]

Please! Bring Alan back!

Oops... wrong forum and thread.

Yes wrong forum, but great idea!

[dubman]

Karl Hyde is all Underworld. What does Rick do? NOTHING. The singer is the one who does everything.
yeah lets turn this into a troll thread proper already

[viddy]

What do you think disco dave was trying to do?

[stimpee]

What do you think disco dave was trying to do?Nice post dave, but its borderline trolling and you need to come back and backup your claims.exactly. still, it brought out the discussion.

[King of Snake]

not to sound like a total fanboy, but i've been to a lot of underworld gigs and though i've had my bitching session about certain tours not sounding as good as before, things have improved immensely since Pricey joined.

The 1994-96 gigs were incredible because the band could jam and explore every possibility of all the loops and melodies theyd put to disk in the studio, with the added freedom that the crowd werent there to hear "the hits".

Everything Everything which covers the live period between late 97 to mid 99 is an evolution of the earlier period while the jamming is sort of gone, it morphs from song to song and still includes the epic non-singles (e.g. juanita/cups/rowla/kittens). I think after that it was the end of the road for that setlist. When you combine new equipment, a band member leaving, and new material you have to re-think your whole live output. While I wasnt a big fan of the 2001-02-03 tours, listening back to them they sound a lot better than i remember, even if they are more stop-start.

With Price on board Rick can concentrate on things and overlap the tunes, or let Darren stick his own tunes on (which are damn good) while he sets up the next one. By the time the autumn of 2005 came along Pricey was very familiar with the setup as anyone who witnessed the two 013/Tilburg shows or the Luxembourg show the following day will confirm. Three hours each show with plenty of flow, plenty of new tunes and old ones dusted off, and a real happy feel on stage.

Right now the shows are as good as they have been since 99 for me, and I'm approaching 30 gigs since 1994. Nice post dave, but its borderline trolling and you need to come back and backup your claims.

nice one.
I was just listening/watching some clips of the lowlands gig last year. They had a lot of problems with the computer and the first 15 minutes is quite interesting to hear. They're trying to play Crocodile but keep having to go back to some minimal improvisations, with bits of Karl just singing acapella cause the computers have crashed, and then a bit of Skyscraper comes in somewhere and after 10 minutes they finally go back to Crocodile again. It's not the best improvisation ever but you have to respect the way they manage to keep a good show going even when the technology fails. I was at that gig and a lot of people who didn't know underworld that well didn't even notice anything was wrong.

Darren Price certainly adds to the live show, although sometimes it sounds like they are kinda limited to just doing a dj-style crossfade mix between one computer runnig a Price song and the rest of the setup running the underworld material. They sometimes seem to have trouble beatmatching two tracks and have to revert back to an ambient interlude which is a shame. But I've still heard some great improvs and transitions in the "recent" gigs. Most notably the Borialis-Deep Arch-5 foot 5-Air Towel-Mowed Path sequence from the Rotterdam gig.

[Champiness]

nice one.
I was just listening/watching some clips of the lowlands gig last year. They had a lot of problems with the computer and the first 15 minutes is quite interesting to hear. They're trying to play Crocodile but keep having to go back to some minimal improvisations, with bits of Karl just singing acapella cause the computers have crashed, and then a bit of Skyscraper comes in somewhere and after 10 minutes they finally go back to Crocodile again.

They did all that during a mechanical breakdown? Seriously? I was about to put that on my wishlist for Album 6. It blew me away. Thankfully, it was recorded.

[In The Year Of The Snake]

...after Darren left, the shows were simply not nearly as good at they were pre 2000
I think there's truth to this, to a degree, though I'd argue that both live and in the studio, the music of Underworld has been less potent without Darren. Less "woofta-dufta" and more "nimby-pimby", as Rick might have once put it.

Back then, Darren was right young and perhaps even a bit daft, especially in contrast to the older and wiser Rick and Karl. (After all, with age comes wisdom, as they say.) So, there was some tension there, with the light-to-moderate slagging that occasionally went back and forth, particularly between Rick and Darren. For example, Darren would take the piss because of his youth and relative inexperience to actually creating electronic music (not DJing, which of course he essentially taught Rick how to do). And then Darren would fire back at the "old folk" (meaning Rick and Karl) because they were set in their ways, not hip to what was happening outside Lemonworld, or some other such, true or not.

But this tension actually worked for the band, like other bands that have come and gone since. (Dwayne Goettel-era Skinny Puppy comes to mind, particularly with the acute personality issues between Ogre and cEVIN Key.) It worked in the way that the music was more intense, more aggressive and more adventurous (to my ears, anyway), as the band's tensions were released through their collective artistic output.

So, to me, that's the downside of the current situation. Less intensity. But I think the upside would be that Rick and Karl probably find their current working situation more comfortable and more enjoyable. And Darren, on his relative own, likely feels the same way.

However . . . . .

I've got to point out that seeing Rick, Karl and Price at the Hollywood Bowl in what I believe was September 2007 was one of the best shows I've ever seen. I was seated up a ways, and I was dancing on the steps the entire time. Needless to say, it was an incredible night, very woofta-dufta, and very much pure Underworld.

Hence, I'm not at all saying the boys don't have it anymore, because they very much do, when they choose to employ it.

...And to Darren's credit, I was there for his set at Coachella 2003, where I was just as blown away with his talent as a DJ as I was when I saw him with Underworld. (And, of course, I went mental again with Underworld's performance the following evening.)

[TheBang]

When did Darren leave? I read some places that said around Christmas 1999, but it wasn't officially, widely announced until April or May-ish.

When did Darren join? I found several places that said he was with R+K for 10 years (1989-1999). Other places say it was 1991-1992-ish.

[ndrwrld]

regardless of when Darren Emerson left UW, they've been doing just fine without him.
if he was so important to the band, UW would have been putting out shite since his departure.
that clearly isn't the case.
another new Darren has taken the place, and i'm loving it.

[big screen satellite]

Emerson Leaves Underworld (Article part 1) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigscreensatellite/3388931981/in/set-72157615478946019/)
Emerson Leaves Underworld (Article part 2) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigscreensatellite/3389743852/in/set-72157615478946019/)

just to add to this post

[undarrenworld]

When did Darren join? I found several places that said he was with R+K for 10 years (1989-1999). Other places say it was 1991-1992-ish.

I always thought than in the first gig with that legendary long appearance on stage as MK II in 1992 Darren was there, and I heard somewhere that he joined in late 1991, or early 1992.

[TheBang]

The article Matt posted above is one of the ones I read that said 1989/1990 for when Darren joined. I found another one too that also said 1989, so I guess it's a little earlier than I had thought it was.

[big screen satellite]

i'll check some of the notes i have it might be listed somewhere - i still have loads more stuff to put up so it'll probably be somewhere... (bear with me)

[//\/\/]

I always thought than in the first gig with that legendary long appearance on stage as MK II in 1992 Darren was there, and I heard somewhere that he joined in late 1991, or early 1992.

experimental sound field at glastonbury - i missed it.

by a year :(

[big screen satellite]

Tony Barrett's newsletter dated January 1993, which covers the previous 12 months basically states that Underworld 'has a new member, Darren Emerson' and they he and Rick were (mainly) responsible for the Lemon Interupt releases & Steppin Razor remixes in 1992.

The previous underworld contacts dated June 1991 doesn't mention Emerson (and in fact mentions UW working on a new album with Rupert Hine, in Spain) - so its basically betwen June 1991 & January 1993 when Emerson joined, although based upon the rough release schedules of the Lemon Interupt singles / Remixes by Steppin Razor, its likely to have been later 1991 / early 1992 when Darren 'officially' joined. An ID Magazine article dated October 1992 mentions Darren. I am ploughing through all the music press articles i have to see the first mention of Mr. DE, although i'm not sure all are accurate!

will report any further info when i find it....

here's the 1993 January Underworld contacts for ref (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigscreensatellite/3389729116/sizes/l/in/set-72157615478946019/)


big screen matt

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

blaaaah, blahhhhh, blaaahhhh, bla-bla-bl-blaaaah,,,

[crazysugarboy]

At the risk of sounding terribly flippant, does anyone have Darren Em's mobly phone number, and so we can simply ask him?

[big screen satellite]

At the risk of sounding terribly flippant, does anyone have Darren Em's mobly phone number, and so we can simply ask him?


hahaha - you think he will know!!! haha i've emailed him before about specifics, he can't bloody remember - he'll be as vague as we are...

i bet he comes back and says sometime between '1990-1992ish' (if anything at all, he never seems to mention UW much these days, although does still bash out an odd tune now and a again...)

(I'd ask Steve H, but he's also a bit vague on times around the early 90's - a lot of 'things' were going on around then that have affected peoples memories)

but if anyone wants to try and ask Emerson's on facebook and myspace...

[TheBang]

Thanks for looking that stuff up, Matt. I thought it was around then, but then I saw those couple articles that were saying "10 years" and "1989", and it made me wonder.

[//\/\/]

(if anything at all, he never seems to mention UW much these days, although does still bash out an odd tune now and a again...)

indeed - his new g.u. release opens and closes with 'skyscraper'...

[big screen satellite]

indeed - his new g.u. release opens and closes with 'skyscraper'...

a full cd quality version of which is available on the unmixed promo too...

thats by the by though

[big screen satellite]

more fuel (read bottom left article) here: (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigscreensatellite/3403622373/)

[Bargo]

more fuel (read bottom left article) here: (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigscreensatellite/3403622373/)

I'm more amazed that the article on the right calls Dirt Epic (sic) a "lumbering blasphemy, the only non-event here". :eek: And then goes on to praise the "magical guitars" of frickin' Surfboy, haha.

[big screen satellite]

I'm more amazed that the article on the right calls Dirt Epic (sic) a "lumbering blasphemy, the only non-event here". :eek: And then goes on to praise the "magical guitars" of frickin' Surfboy, haha.

oh my god, some of the dodgy reviews Uw got are an entirely other thread... where do you start!!

I will be posting a lot of these reviews and articles shortly.... check back at my flickr site !!