Abortion, the Church, and Obama

[Sean]

So in recent days, the Catholic Church has been taking a hard-line stance against Obama (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20081112/D94D7AHG0.html) because of his views on abortion. It appears that they're trying to throw down the gauntlet in some places by saying that anyone who voted for Obama should be excluded from receiving communion (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D94EB4BO0&show_article=1) because their support of him "constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil".

Is it just me, or is this more of a line in the sand in how the Church is dealing with the government than we've seen drawn on this subject in the past?

[gambit]

I'll start listening to the Church when they stop fondling little boys.

Ba dum dum ching! Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all weekend. Be sure to tip your waitresses. :D

In seriousness, I agree, Sean. I don't recall the Church drawing a line in the sand in years past, but maybe I've missed something.

But this line from the first article is just plain stupid: "In an impassioned discussion on Catholics in public life, several bishops said they would accept no compromise on abortion policy. Many condemned Catholics who had argued it was morally acceptable to back President-elect Obama because he pledged to reduce abortion rates."

Just because you outlaw abortion doesn't mean women aren't still going to have them or be put into situations where they even consider it. They're basically saying abortion is wrong and so is preventing it. This is one of the things I like about Obama; he recognizes that both sides of the debate don't want women to be put in that situation, and if we could do more to prevent it, then we should do it because that would mean fewer abortions.

[holden]

Wowsers - that's a serious stance, indeed!

i don't want to get too into this, as abortion is still probably one of the most heated and divisive issues. But i will give a little food for thought.

As a Catholic myself, i do believe in the sanctity of life, and i do consider a politician's stance of being Pro-Choice or Pro-Life when voting. Whether or not one's conscious factors in on voting day is up to them. But there are LOTS of Other issues to also consider for the country as a whole.

And then there's this dilemma:
Both John McCain and George Bush before him claim to be Pro-Life. Yet they continue to uphold an unjust war where thousands have been killed. Some sactification of life, huh?
So do i have to vote for McCain because he's "pro-life" when so many of his other policies and agendas are harmful?
That's where this bishop loses me...

[cacophony]

it's an odd thing, this, because catholics backed obama during the election.

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

Remember the marine last year who fled to Mexico?

Trust me, you don't want to know.

[Troy McClure]

Wowsers - that's a serious stance, indeed!

i don't want to get too into this, as abortion is still probably one of the most heated and divisive issues. But i will give a little food for thought.

As a Catholic myself, i do believe in the sanctity of life, and i do consider a politician's stance of being Pro-Choice or Pro-Life when voting. Whether or not one's conscious factors in on voting day is up to them. But there are LOTS of Other issues to also consider for the country as a whole.

And then there's this dilemma:
Both John McCain and George Bush before him claim to be Pro-Life. Yet they continue to uphold an unjust war where thousands have been killed. Some sactification of life, huh?
So do i have to vote for McCain because he's "pro-life" when so many of his other policies and agendas are harmful?
That's where this bishop loses me...

Well said Holden. I think you and I share the same opinion on this matter.

I'm Catholic too...luckily I attended a church where the priests aren't simpletons like that asshat in South Carolina. My priests talk about the sanctity of life also applying to the poor, the terminally ill, the death penalty, war, immigrants and the environment.

I'll add that priests did the same when John Kerry ran in 2004. Like they are so certain that God and Jesus are Republicans. I usually counter against those that tell me I can't vote for a pro-choice person with this: The GOP isn't pro-life, they are pro-birth.

Just my two cents, Jason

[myrrh]

Well, I used to be Catholic....

In any sense, I really don't have an opinion on this because it follows no rational idea that people should not receive communion because they voted for Obama.

I will say though that I think the idea that is perpetuated that the Church should not be listened too until the priests stop molesting boys etc, is not logical either. This is because the Church has it's position, and whether or not priests are following that doesn't mean that the Church should change it's position.

Now, if you want to suggest that the reason why the priests molest little boys is because of the Church's position on not getting married, then this I will agree with you on. I feel that the reason the boys get molested is because the Church demands that Priests not marry, which goes against the natural order in which God created humans. Meaning that He mades us with sexual urges and to institute a law saying that you need to suppress such an urge for your whole life is insane. To say that it is following Jesus, to me is even more insane, because the Church believes that Jesus is God, and we are not. So it is illogical for our example of how to live our lives is the example of God.

Furthermore, this practice wasn't actually part of the original Church teachings and wasn't started until the 12th century. Prior to that, priests, bishops and even popes had wives.

Anyway, sorry for the rant that went way off topic...

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

Well, I used to be Catholic....

In any sense, I really don't have an opinion on this because it follows no rational idea that people should not receive communion because they voted for Obama.

I will say though that I think the idea that is perpetuated that the Church should not be listened too until the priests stop molesting boys etc, is not logical either. This is because the Church has it's position, and whether or not priests are following that doesn't mean that the Church should change it's position.

Now, if you want to suggest that the reason why the priests molest little boys is because of the Church's position on not getting married, then this I will agree with you on. I feel that the reason the boys get molested is because the Church demands that Priests not marry, which goes against the natural order in which God created humans. Meaning that He mades us with sexual urges and to institute a law saying that you need to suppress such an urge for your whole life is insane. To say that it is following Jesus, to me is even more insane, because the Church believes that Jesus is God, and we are not. So it is illogical for our example of how to live our lives is the example of God.

Furthermore, this practice wasn't actually part of the original Church teachings and wasn't started until the 12th century. Prior to that, priests, bishops and even popes had wives.

Anyway, sorry for the rant that went way off topic...


There's always the possiblity that many of the offending priests were never Catholic to begin with.

[myrrh]

There's always the possiblity that many of the offending priests were never Catholic to begin with.


Holy Shit!!!!!

Is that an actual coherent statement that you just uttered?

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

I just made it up off the top of my head.

Sometimes, I'm just like a genius. But I don't spell very well. Mostly, Mostly.

[Deckard]

It must be infinite monkey theorem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem). :p

(j/k, jR ;) )

On the original topic, yes it's the first time I've heard this line-in-the-sand being drawn by the Catholic Church, though from what I can tell it's only this South Carolina priest who's going as far as to suggest that parishioners shouldn't receive Holy Communion if they voted for Obama. It only takes one to make a headline. Not that I'm defending the stupidity.

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

It must be infinite monkey theorem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem). :p

(j/k, jR ;) )

On the original topic, yes it's the first time I've heard this line-in-the-sand being drawn by the Catholic Church, though from what I can tell it's only this South Carolina priest who's going as far as to suggest that parishioners shouldn't receive Holy Communion if they voted for Obama. It only takes one to make a headline. Not that I'm defending the stupidity.

Oh come on, it's not the first time.

And no, I'm researching that for you after calling me a test monkey.

And don't wink at me, you're in a committed domestic relationship thing.