Final results thread

[gambit]

I know we got some other threads here that could service this topic, but I figured for tonight, starting a new thread for final results would be good. Not just the final results for the Presidential race, but final results for any other races that might be interesting.

The ones I'm watching:

Dole (R) v. Hagan (D) in North Carolina
Coleman (R) v. Franken (D) v. Barkley (I) in Minnesota
Stevens (R) v. Begich (D) in Alaska
Bachmann (R) v. Tinklenberg (D) in Minnesota
Prop 8 in California

[bryantm3]

Chambliss vs. Martin in Georgia is definitely one to keep your eye on.

[Troy McClure]

Lunsford vs McConnell senate race in Kentucky could be close, too.

Jason

[cured]

I'm watching Prop 11 in California (an attempt to take politics out of redistricting...this is one that even NY Mayor Bloomberg showed up to fight for). I don't think 8 will pass.

[gambit]

Kentucky to McCain, Vermont to Obama. No surprises so far. Indiana is looking close.

[gambit]

South Carolina to McCain. Indiana still very close. Obama winning in Florida.

[gambit]

CNN has Obama ahead 77 to 34; NBC 104 to 34. They called Pennsylvania for Obama, but CNN hasn't yet.

[gambit]

Kay Hagan appears to have beat Elizabeth Dole (YES!).

[cured]

CNN has called PA for Obama. World, I think we got it right this time. I don't see a way for McCain to win this, especially with Obama ahead in Ohio.

[dubman]

GOODNESS

either this is obscene or cnn is reaching but obama is at 174 and mccain at 64.

we still have bible country to slog through but uh... not bad?

florida/ohio/north carolina looking pretty sweet

[chuck]

If Obama takes Florida and PA - it's as good as done.

[chuck]

The Democrats picking up 4 in the Senate is pretty important too. Sununu and Dole both gone.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/

still has the race pretty close.

[gambit]

Minnesota, Michigan, Wisconsin, New York, Rhode Island, and

OHIO

went to Obama.

[dubman]

where are you reading this

[gambit]

NBC/MSNBC

[dubman]

goodness they're even more prone to hyperventilation than cnn....

i cant help but feel that this is getting inflated way too fast. or am i just being defensive

[gambit]

Obama has 200 electoral votes, only 70 away. He'll win California, so that's 255, and he should win Washington, 11, and Hawaii, 4, so that's 270. Nevermind Oregon, Colorado, Nevada, Iowa, Indiana, Florida, North Carolina, Virginia, Missouri, and Montana.

I think he just won this.

[gambit]

Well, I think Keith Olbermann will orgasm any minute now. :D

[Troy McClure]

Fox News, CBS and CNN are saying the same about Ohio.

It's bizness time.

From the widget I'm following, there's still a good chance of Obama flipping Indiana, and as of 10:00 ET, Obama is ahead in Virgina by 10,000 votes with 82% reporting.

Jason

[kagenaki koe]

this battle aint over, McCain will FIGHT!!!!!!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/03/john-mccain-cant-stop-say_n_140618.html

[Mort]

Nate's calling it !!

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/11/obama-to-become-next-president.html

[gambit]

Did anyone see Will.I.Am talk to Wolf Blitzer on CNN via HOLOGRAM???

[chuck]

Yeah - just saw that.

I demand all holograms wear white robes and bagels!

CNN calls Virginia for Obama.

[chuck]

whoa!

Fox has just called the whole show for Obama.

As has CNN

[gambit]

Everyone has called it, and some states aren't even decided yet.

Man, I wish I was in Chicago now.

[chuck]

Change baby.

True.

can't help smiling.

from over here. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

[cured]

I'm gonna be in DC on Jan. 20.

This is a real landslide...there is nothing to fight. Obama is going to get over 350 EVs tonight.

[den]

Not in Grant Park, but I opened my window to take in the fireworks (or gunshots) and the cheering in the streets.

[dubman]

oh man
let the healing begin.
GUYS.
CAN WE BE OKAY NOW

[potatobroth]

big win for the right candidate.

[gambit]

Watching the McCain concession speech, and his supporters need to shut up and let the man speak. He's giving a pretty good concession speech.

[gambit]

Damn, there are tons of people chanting (I think) OBAMA outside the White House.

[Mort]

It was very very solid .. Hats off to him is all you can say.

Huge Congratulations to you Americans !

[cured]

McCain's campaign speech was pure class. It sucks we couldn't see this side of him during the campaign.

[chuck]

Indeed. Classy speech by McCain.

He should have told the redneck fucks in the crowd to shut the fuck up already.

I liked how his leaving music was the theme music from Crimson Tide - where the submarine sinks beneath the water. Apt.

[chuck]

Oh yeah baby! :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/deimoserato/Polls_closed.jpg

[cacophony]

i will admit to you fine folks that these results have me a little teary-eyed. it feels like we've managed to bring to a close 8 years of pure malevolence and finally we have some hope for the future. and the fact that obama won by such a large margin is so far beyond my expectations. i can only imagine what an incredible moment this is for the african american population, young and old. did anyone see the shot of jessie jackson on CNN? the man is outright sobbing. regardless of what his recent reputation has been like, that's a man who has been fighting for civil rights since black people were getting firehosed in the streets. it has to be an incredible moment for him, as well as everyone else of course.

and of course we can't overlook the fact that the election of the first black president could not have happened without the support of white and latino america, too. it's a huge statement about unity where the conversation usually revolves around division.

ahhhh i'm not saying anything new. i'm just rambling because i'm still reeling from the tremendous relief.

McCain's campaign speech was pure class. It sucks we couldn't see this side of him during the campaign.

agreed. also, i found myself irrationally angry at sarah palin's visible red teary eyes. she was barely keeping that smile on her face throughout the speech. mccain lost a hell of a lot more than she did and he kept it together and was sincere and gracious about his concession.

[Troy McClure]

Senator McCain was very good in his concession speech. I hope those who voted for him follow suit. It's going to be tough to talk some of those loonies back off their ledge.

Although, might I add President Barack Obama sure does have a great ring to it.

Jason

[gambit]

Damn, there's a possibility Obama could get 375 EVs.

I like what Keith Olbermann said, and I'm poorly paraphrasing here. Every civil rights moment was basically pushing equality onto whites, forcing them to give blacks a chance in society, and now, this was a choice by the nation to elect a black president.

[Troy McClure]

'Cacophony' you are right about Gov. Palin.

Also, I was watching Congressman Lewis and Tavis Smiley on NBC. Both looked like they were bawling off screen, and for good reason, too.

Personally, for me being half-Caucasian / half-latino, I can't believe this has happened. I was crying too.

Jason

[gambit]

Oprah was crying. I don't think I've seen a black face that wasn't crying.

[cured]

What a speech by Obama. Pure inspiration at a time when we could surely use it.

[gambit]

Okay, not to take away from Obama's big win, but how about some other races.

Currently, Prop 8 in California is winning, but not by much, and not every vote has been counted there.

Coleman and crazy lady Bachmann are winning in Minnesota.

Hagan beat Dole in North Carolina.

Still waiting on Stevens in Alaska.

Currently, 56 Democrats in the Senate, 40 Republicans.

[gambit]

http://www.indecision2008.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=189985

If anyone wants to know what Montana is like, here ya go! ;) :D

[nosajmunson]

I don't care how cheesy this sounds or if this is the wrong thread of whatever:

I am so happy about what we have done as a country. We have elected a man that I think is the closest canidate to perfect in this day and age for this country.
I am proud to say I volunteered for his campaign for the past 16 months.

The sheer numbers show a wave has swept across this country.
A 3+ million popular vote lead and possibly before the night is over 350(!?) Electoral votes. That is more than a "squeaker". That shows how many people in this country are ready to change our country's course.
I am not a sappy person, but Obama's speech moved me to tears.

All of the craziness of this election season is behind us. We only have the future in front of us and this is a future we get to shape.

-Jason

[cured]

Looks like Obama won North Carolina AND Indiana, as well. That should leave the total tally at 364 electoral votes, which is an absolute demolition.

[gambit]

Some other ballot measures across the country.

Arizona: Ban on gay marriage wins.
Arkansas: Ban on gay couples adopting children wins.
California: Prop 4 on abortion limits is losing.
Colorado: Human Life Begins at Conception is losing horribly.
Florida: Ban on gay marriage winning.
Michigan: Allow stem cell research wins.
South Dakota: Abortion limits loses.
Washington: Allow doctor-assisted suicide wins.

[Troy McClure]

Some other ballot measures across the country.

Arizona: Ban on gay marriage wins.
Arkansas: Ban on gay couples adopting children wins.
California: Prop 4 on abortion limits is losing.
Colorado: Human Life Begins at Conception is losing horribly.
Florida: Ban on gay marriage winning.
Michigan: Allow stem cell research wins.
South Dakota: Abortion limits loses.
Washington: Allow doctor-assisted suicide wins.

I'm not happy with AZ's Prop 102 - Define marriage amendment winning. In Arizona, same-sex marriage was already not allowed / recognized. Two years ago, we defeated a similar ballot measure. This time around, the Prop 102 supporters are making a state Constitution law defining what marriage is. Basically our state constitution is now a dictionary.

Jason

[gambit]

The same happened to Montana in 04.

[gambit]

Indiana finally went blue.

[Troy McClure]

So far more people in Arizona voted 'yes' on our marriage proposition than Senator McCain for POTUS.

Jason

[//\/\/]

http://michellemalkin.com/2008/11/04/election-night-counting-the-votes/#comments

some incredibly insane comments by the latest page - this is the start of the end times according to some - totally loopy!

[BeautifulBurnout]

THANK YOU AMERICA!

I never thought I would see this day in my lifetime, and every time I think about it my eyes fill with tears. Watching Jesse Jackson as he cried has to be one of the most moving, poignant things I have seen, when you think of all he has lived through, when you think that he was shoulder to shoulder with Martin Luther King all those years ago. All those years ago, yet still in my lifetime and almost yesterday in historical terms, an African-American was not allowed a seat on a bus! A truly momentous day.

It is going to be tough because so much is on this man's shoulders, and he has a huge, huge task in front of him. Two wars. Economic meltdown. Global Warming. So many things that he needs to address. Some have spoken of it as a poison chalice, but I think he is up to the task.

An enormous tectonic shift has taken place and people around the world are in love with your country again. :)

[Deckard]

I just want to say to every American on this board, thank you. :) And congratulations. The bulk of the world just fell back in love with America tonight.

Flicking across various channels, I watched it through to 6am our time (yup, I'm shattered right now) to see Obama's speech. I think all around the world, millions of us were doing the same, everyone on the edge of our seats. Virtually everyone elated at the outcome. And he (and you) didn't disappoint.

McCain's concession was also great. In time I think he will recover his reputation, and be seen as someone who had an almost impossible task, made some mistakes along the way and was just generally poorly advised. Beamed out across the world, the booing at Obama's and Biden's names was disgraceful and brought into sharp focus the distinction between old and new America - but McCain came across as someone firmly in the new camp. I don't believe the culture wars will end overnight - of course not - judging by some of the moronic comments, they're currently more pronounced than ever. But this was a watershed moment, and Jesse Jackson's face said it all.

Best of all, my boyfriend turned to me at the end of Obama's speech and said he could even see himself moving to the States now, or at least supporting the US in any action it took. Now that is incredible. No matter what I've said to him in the past, he's always had trouble seeing beyond a disproportionate image of ignorance, greed, rednecks, bigotry and bullies. Tonight, that view was challenged beyond doubt with the entire world watching - not just the race issue, but the symbolism of an end to the politics of the last 8 or so years. The different side of America was impossible to dispute. You people spoke, and the world heard.

Whatever mistakes Obama makes, or ways in which he disappoints, the gains to America from tonight are unmistakeable.

Have to just agree with Chuck - what a classic moment when the Crimson Tide music started playing as McCain and crew walked off stage! I'm surprised they all didn't slow-mo through some artificial rain. :D

Once again, thank you guys for everything you did. It's people like you that make America great.

[Future Proof]

THANK YOU AMERICA!

I never thought I would see this day in my lifetime, and every time I think about it my eyes fill with tears. Watching Jesse Jackson as he cried has to be one of the most moving, poignant things I have seen, when you think of all he has lived through, when you think that he was shoulder to shoulder with Martin Luther King all those years ago. All those years ago, yet still in my lifetime and almost yesterday in historical terms, an African-American was not allowed a seat on a bus! A truly momentous day.

It is going to be tough because so much is on this man's shoulders, and he has a huge, huge task in front of him. Two wars. Economic meltdown. Global Warming. So many things that he needs to address. Some have spoken of it as a poison chalice, but I think he is up to the task.

An enormous tectonic shift has taken place and people around the world are in love with your country again. :)

You know, as a conservative at heart, there will be a few things during President Obama's tenure that might rub me wrong. But I'll tell you, I still can't help but feel like the right thing has happened here. It is nice to feel that a steward has been elected and not a powermonger. A lot of people got upset a couple of months ago when Michelle Obama said that it'd been a while since she felt good about America, but dammit isn't that why you should try to become president? To right all of the wrongs? Because you have faith that you have what it takes to make the country a better place?

I am looking forward to hearing the words Neo-con and grassroots movement uttered in the same sentence. I'm looking forward to reform and partisanship. And I'm looking forward to seeing Dubya do an occasional photo-op here and there, and enjoying his retirement. We've gone through 8 years of hell, but now we have a true public servant. And whether there's a little change or a lot, there will be change. And it will be good.

I'm proud of America as well, and it feels good.

P.S. -- I voted for Obama, just to be clear.

[Rog]

............i'm just bored stupid with the whole thing here in the UK. I bet the British elections don't get saturateion coverage in the USA.

......and he's not even black, he's mixed race.:confused:

[Deckard]

......and he's not even black, he's mixed race.:confused:
The point, Rog, is that, by and large, rightly or wrongly, many people typically describe anyone of mixed race (at least those with some African-American ethnicity) as being 'black'. If he was seen on the street, he would be viewed as black. Not mixed race. And it's that perception that's important when it comes to the race issue. People voted for someone like that. Even as a mixed race man, the historical significance is not diminished, because America will have it's first non-white President. Does that honestly not make you feel a bit hopeful?

[Dirty0900]

............i'm just bored stupid with the whole thing here in the UK. I bet the British elections don't get saturateion coverage in the USA.



Not really as glam really...

[Rog]

Even as a mixed race man, the historical significance is not diminished, because America will have it's first non-white President. Does that honestly not make you feel a bit hopeful?

Not yet mate.......

[BrotherLovesDub]

I don't think I've seen a black face that wasn't crying.

i was in seattle, surrounded by white faces and i didn't see a white face that wasn't crying.

[viddy]

Epicness in Chicago last night. I wish I still lived there!

Good speech.:o

[Rog]

Not really as glam really...
glam?:confused:

[Sean]

What a gorgeous night and morning. After almost two years af arguing for this man to be our next President, it was an unbelievable feeling to see the race called for him the second polls closed here on the west coast.

And what struck me most as events unfolded throughout the night was how much things immediately changed - and I don't just mean my feelings of stress about it all finally disappearing. Obama's victory speech was, especially on the second viewing of it, incredibly forward-looking. Nothing about the flaws of the other party or the divisions we've seen being so clearly highlighted throughout these campaigns - it was all about where we need to go now. It reflected everything he's been saying for the past 2 years, and even before when you really look at it.

And one of the first things I heard this morning was his full name, Barack Hussein Obama, being invoked as something to be viewed with pride and excitement instead of being used as a weapon against him.

It feels like we're heading into a positive new era.

[Dirty0900]

glam?:confused:

Cameron or Brown arent characters with mental stand out personality features. I dont think multi millions of pounds will be spent on whoring their policies to us - unless its through a dodgy deal with Russia or something.

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

glam?:confused:

That 0900 boy always brings a smile to my face.

[Rog]

Cameron or Brown arent characters with mental stand out personality features. I dont think multi millions of pounds will be spent on whoring their policies to us - unless its through a dodgy deal with Russia or something.

true!, you're right:D

[Rog]

What a gorgeous night and morning. After almost two years af arguing for this man to be our next President, it was an unbelievable feeling to see the race called for him the second polls closed here on the west coast.

And what struck me most as events unfolded throughout the night was how much things immediately changed - and I don't just mean my feelings of stress about it all finally disappearing. Obama's victory speech was, especially on the second viewing of it, incredibly forward-looking. Nothing about the flaws of the other party or the divisions we've seen being so clearly highlighted throughout these campaigns - it was all about where we need to go now. It reflected everything he's been saying for the past 2 years, and even before when you really look at it.

And one of the first things I heard this morning was his full name, Barack Hussein Obama, being invoked as something to be viewed with pride and excitement instead of being used as a weapon against him.

It feels like we're heading into a positive new era.


i wonder if the streets will be running rivers of gold tomorrow.........:p:D

only joking Sean! I hope your optimism is well placed and that he will make a difference to the USA and the world;)

[gambit]

Well, shit, Prop 8 was passed.

[Sean]

i wonder if the streets will be running rivers of gold tomorrow.........:p:D

only joking Sean! I hope your optimism is well placed and that he will make a difference to the USA and the world;):D

I guess what I was really trying to say was that Obama's victory speech went a long way, in my opinion, to changing the country's tone. We seemed to go immediately from angry, divisive scare-mongering and focusing on all that's been wrong with the country, to squarely focusing on what we can do to make it right. After almost two years of daily battling, I find that incredibly refreshing.

So say whatever you like about it, I am in a good mood today, and will be for quite some time. :)

[Deckard]

Well, shit, Prop 8 was passed.
I just tell myself these are no more than the death throes of anti-gay attitudes*, not a long-term trend.

The day will come eventually. Women, blacks, gays..... progress ultimately moves in a decidedly liberal direction. Those who hate eventually find themselves on the wrong side of history. The important thing is not to give up hope.

(*EDIT: with a footnote that a few of those opposing gay marriage would not necessarily see themselves as anti-gay)

[BrotherLovesDub]

I'm looking forward to seeing Dubya do an occasional photo-op here and there, and enjoying his retirement.

i look forward to History books ripping him a new asshole and his name being associated with the words Worst President Ever.

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

I just tell myself these are no more than the death throes of anti-gay attitudes*, not a long-term trend.

The day will come eventually. Women, blacks, gays..... progress ultimately moves in a decidedly liberal direction. Those who hate eventually find themselves on the wrong side of history. The important thing is not to give up hope.

(*EDIT: with a footnote that a few of those opposing gay marriage would not necessarily see themselves as anti-gay)


STFU Deckard.

I do have a problem when the same anti-gay do not even let an individual marry their hands down. But I'm a rebel like that.

[dubman]

i think people should quote you on things that dont make sense instead of letting it slide because yr supposed to be the kooky one.

like this

the same anti-gay do not even let an individual marry their hands down

what the fuck are you talking about

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

i think people should quote you on things that dont make sense instead of letting it slide because yr supposed to be the kooky one.

like this



what the fuck are you talking about

AAin't no denyin'. At least not with me.

Run along now dubman, nothing to see here. Run along now, go, go, run along.

[Deckard]

Another lost in translation moment.

Side-splitting.

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

Another lost in translation moment.

Side-splitting.

Love making ya giggle.

[Sean]

I just tell myself these are no more than the death throes of anti-gay attitudes*, not a long-term trend.

The day will come eventually. Women, blacks, gays..... progress ultimately moves in a decidedly liberal direction. Those who hate eventually find themselves on the wrong side of history. The important thing is not to give up hope.I do hope you're right. But even if you are, I hate the fact that those who have recently been married are stuck in limbo now. They don't know what this means for them - will their marriages stand, or be nullified? The last I heard this morning is that no one knows for sure. It's incredibly narrow-minded and disappointing to me that a majority of people who voted actually feel it's right to have language in our state constitution that literally strips a group of rights. The amendment specifically says that it "Changes California Constitution to eliminate right of same-sex couples to marry." Shouldn't we be past the era where we constitutionally strip people of their rights? I mean, I realize that many laws technically strip people of rights. Like I don't have the right in California to drive without wearing my seat belt, or while I'm pounding back a beer, but that's a far cry from telling people that they don't have the right to publicly affirm their loving relationship by celebrating it through the commitment of marriage.

(*EDIT: with a footnote that a few of those opposing gay marriage would not necessarily see themselves as anti-gay)This is true, and yet their support of prop 8 still hurts people by stripping them of their rights just as equally as the prop 8 support coming from people who are motivated by bigotry.

It's just another all-around disappointing display of where we are (or, more appropriately, aren't) as a society in my view.

[cured]

AP just called North Carolina for Obama. That should leave the final tally at 364.

[gambit]

North Carolina has now gone to Obama. Obama 364, McCain 173.

In the Oregon Senate race, it appears Democrat Merkley won, putting the current Senate total (minus the results of three seats) at Democrats 57, Republicans 40 (according to NBC/MSNBC).

[Deckard]

You guys are too quick, I was just coming to do that!

[dubman]

is it just me or am i not particularly enthused to have a filibuster proof democratic majority? i actually do believe in checks and balances, not just when it doesnt swing my way, and there needs to be healthy debates and opposition to make sure that whatever gets through has had a bit of a gauntlet run first instead of shouting down opposing views with an overwhelming majority.

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

is it just me or am i not particularly enthused to have a filibuster proof democratic majority? i actually do believe in checks and balances, not just when it doesnt swing my way, and there needs to be healthy debates and opposition to make sure that whatever gets through has had a bit of a gauntlet run first instead of shouting down opposing views with an overwhelming majority.

First things first. How's the beard?

[Sean]

is it just me or am i not particularly enthused to have a filibuster proof democratic majority? i actually do believe in checks and balances, not just when it doesnt swing my way, and there needs to be healthy debates and opposition to make sure that whatever gets through has had a bit of a gauntlet run first instead of shouting down opposing views with an overwhelming majority.I'd have to double check and I'm just heading out the door, but I think they would've needed a few more seats to be filibuster-proof. Wasn't it like 60 that they would need for that?

[gambit]

Technically, two of those "Democrats" are Independents, and one of them is Lieberman, and I'd be surprised if he has any legs to stand on in a year. But I don't disagree with dubman about the checks and balances. That being said, even if they don't get the 60 seats, the Democrats should be able to persuade some moderate Republicans on some issues even if they lose the last three seats.

[dubman]

First things first. How's the beard?

gone actually. i needed it for a bernard black costume so out it went

the democrats do need a 60 seat senate to impose their merciless will, and it's doubtful they'll get it. i dont understand the mournful tone of that news though. having that sort of majority is a double edged sword. even if things arent your fault, you could have done anything you wanted to to stop it.

[Strangelet]

is it just me or am i not particularly enthused to have a filibuster proof democratic majority? i actually do believe in checks and balances, not just when it doesnt swing my way, and there needs to be healthy debates and opposition to make sure that whatever gets through has had a bit of a gauntlet run first instead of shouting down opposing views with an overwhelming majority.

maybe its the campaign I just witnessed, but it seems like it doesn't matter how many strong you are if all you've got to say is obama hangs with terrorists and brain washes people into being *socialists*

But even before the campaign so much of the republican agenda descended into rovian subterfuge and propaganda to stem off the consequences of really bad policy.

To such a level that I don't know if it would even matter if it ends up being 39 christiano-fascists in power or 41.

the number one strategy of winning an argument is being right. everything else tends to work itself out. the sooner the gop starts to rediscover what they are right about, that's the sooner our country benefits from any meaningful checks and balance. who knows when that will happen, with bible spice being poised and groomed for 2012

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

maybe its the campaign I just witnessed, but it seems like it doesn't matter how many strong you are if all you've got to say is obama hangs with terrorists and brain washes people into being *socialists*

But even before the campaign so much of the republican agenda descended into rovian subterfuge and propaganda to stem off the consequences of really bad policy.

To such a level that I don't know if it would even matter if it ends up being 39 christiano-fascists in power or 41.

the number one strategy of winning an argument is being right. everything else tends to work itself out. the sooner the gop starts to rediscover what they are right about, that's the sooner our country benefits from any meaningful checks and balance. who knows when that will happen, with bible spice being poised and groomed for 2012


Unless, like, a porn tape gets out.

It's a JOKE!!!!

[Sean]

gone actually. i needed it for a bernard black costume so out it went

the democrats do need a 60 seat senate to impose their merciless will, and it's doubtful they'll get it. i dont understand the mournful tone of that news though. having that sort of majority is a double edged sword. even if things arent your fault, you could have done anything you wanted to to stop it.I'm with you. While I'm glad we have a new governmental direction heading our way, I was worried about the Dems getting the 60 seats they'd have needed to have the super-majority. I think having things where they are now with a simple majority will allow for sweeping progress to be made, but hopefully not to the point of spiraling wildly in one direction or the other.

[Strangelet]

I'm with you. While I'm glad we have a new governmental direction heading our way, I was worried about the Dems getting the 60 seats they'd have needed to have the super-majority. I think having things where they are now with a simple majority will allow for sweeping progress to be made, but hopefully not to the point of spiraling wildly in one direction or the other.

Obviously by the math on paper you guys are right. I'm just arguing that you have to have a justifiable platform from which to assert dissent, otherwise your dissent, in terms of mollifying our fears of runaway democratic ideology, is pretty much worthless. How do you dissent effectively if you simply refuse to see the problem any other way besides the current platform, summarized by dave berry fairly well...


Barack Obama is our next president, which is very bad because he is a naive untested wealth-spreading terrorist-befriending ultraliberal socialist communist who will suddenly reveal his secret Muslim identity by riding to his inauguration on a camel shouting ''Death to Israel!'' (I mean Obama will be shouting this, not the camel) after which he will wreck the economy by sending Joe the Plumber to Guantánamo and taxing away all the income of anybody who makes over $137.50 per year and giving it to bloated government agencies that will deliberately set it on fire.
your dissent is going to be "WE GOT TO STOP THESE CAMEL JOCKEY LIBRULS FROM MAKING SOSYALISM" meanwhile the democrats are passing dud after dud of a bill because the real type of checks and balances, common sense, we're waiting to land back to earth from its current orbit. the republican party is broken. and I don't say that out of any glee.