The scariest thing I've ever seen

[gambit]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPg0VCg4AEQ

Holy fuck.

[BeautifulBurnout]

Pretty dumb for sure. They really are just spouting rubbish and in a very aggressive way. Reminds me of the old National Front vs Anti-Nazi League days.

I think part of the problem is that in the States candidates have something like 5 or 6 months of solid campaigning (if not more) before the elections, whereas here in the UK they campaign for 5 weeks and that's that.

IMO that means that there is less time for resentments to build, badmouthing to be done and mud to be slung at each other through tv ads and the like. Also I don't believe organisations other than the parties themselves are allowed to fund advertising either, which makes a big difference. Each party has a certain amount of airtime allocated to make their point.

[gambit]

People would love 5 week elections here. Everyone keeps moaning and wishing the election is over already, and bear in mind, this actually started 20 months ago before the primaries.

Personally, I'm worried for Obama and his family's safety. I just want to tell him to not wander random neighborhoods anymore for fear of another RFK-type shooting.

[//\/\/]

the bongo who runs www.thebluesite.com couldn't see how the guy with the monkey was being racist!!!

[gambit]

Oh god, I got an email a few months ago comparing Michelle Obama to an ape, and the person who sent it thought it was just a silly joke, and another person got angry when I pointed out it was racist.

[kagenaki koe]

i'll feel really sad if these are those folks that will give McCain the win.

on a lighter note:
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/assets_c/2008/10/ObamaPalinDancing33.php

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

It's been removed from YouTube.

Any other links?

[gambit]

i'll feel really sad if these are those folks that will give McCain the win.

on a lighter note:
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/assets_c/2008/10/ObamaPalinDancing33.phpHeh, that's a very good photoshop.

jOHN, the link for YouTube still worked for me.

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

Oh, GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!!

All you can really do is laugh.

[//\/\/]

not exactly a great advertisment for democracy, is it?

[Sean]

I wish McCain was right when he said that it's only a fringe element at his and Palin's rallies that were this extremist and bigotted, but I don't think he is. It seems to be a clearly notable portion of the crowd.

Thankfully, I've seen nothing comparable from Obama rallies.

[cacophony]

you could argue that rally attendees represent a small portion of the total republican voter base. and if the bigoted attendees make up only a portion of that portion, you do end up with a "fringe element" responsible for the offensiveness.

we have to be careful not to do the same thing that happened when hillary didn't get the nomination. it was easy to look at the hillary rallies and say, "wow a lot of women are angry and will vote for mccain if she doesn't get the nod." but in reality that very visible, very vocal group turned out to be an itty bitty minority and most of her supporters won't defect after all.

just because these people are visible and vocal, we can't automatically decide they represent the whole.

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

just because these people are visible and vocal, we can't automatically decide they represent the whole.

I agree.

Yet, when so many are being so vocal in a non-cohesive fashion, those who turn a blind eye and say nothing in regards to what is so blatantly wrong are just a guilty as the perpetrators.

[cacophony]

Yet, when so many are being so vocal in a non-cohesive fashion, those who turn a blind eye and say nothing in regards to what is so blatantly wrong are just a guilty as the perpetrators.

absolutely.

"all that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

[Deckard]

you could argue that rally attendees represent a small portion of the total republican voter base. and if the bigoted attendees make up only a portion of that portion, you do end up with a "fringe element" responsible for the offensiveness.

we have to be careful not to do the same thing that happened when hillary didn't get the nomination. it was easy to look at the hillary rallies and say, "wow a lot of women are angry and will vote for mccain if she doesn't get the nod." but in reality that very visible, very vocal group turned out to be an itty bitty minority and most of her supporters won't defect after all.

just because these people are visible and vocal, we can't automatically decide they represent the whole.
You're quite right. Looking back at that Hillary stage of the campaign, I think I was guilty of having lapsed into that way of thinking to some extent - I think more out of cynicism/pessimism/over-caution (delete as appropriate!) than anything else, but your point absolutely stands. One of those things we all need reminding of at some point!

Yet, when so many are being so vocal in a non-cohesive fashion, those who turn a blind eye and say nothing in regards to what is so blatantly wrong are just a guilty as the perpetrators.
Well said jOHN. And remaining silent can contribute to that 'small vocal minority' slowly but surely turning into a majority - undoubtedly how some of the worse atrocities in the world have been allowed to occur.

[Troy McClure]

A video of the vile in Ohio speaking to Al Jazeera English TV no less. In Ohio after a Gov. Palin rally. Notice how calm the people are explaining Obama.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRqcfqiXCX0

The line to get into a McCain rally in Pennsylvania on October 8th:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itEucdhf4Us

Palin rally a few weeks ago in Ohio:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjxzmaXAg9E

part2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJghQMq49dw


I had my own experience last night at a restaurant. My mom and I each wore an Obama pin to dinner and saw a friend there. He called me a socialist and defended the man who owned the bank we both used to work at, First National Bank of Arizona. The owner Ray Lamb is profiled here in the Wall Street Journal: http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB122298993937000343-lMyQjAxMDI4MjAyMzkwODM5Wj.html I told my friend how he ruined the bank, and he wouldn't believe me. Then some guy overheard me and said if I liked socialism so much, my mom and I should move to Venezuela. But that douchebag couldn't say it to my face. He said it as he walked away from me. Both of them said that the rich people work harder than anyone else in America. I said even teachers, fire fighters, military and nurses? They said yes! Stupidity FTW!

Jason

[Deckard]

As a Brit, it really is hilarious - and bizarre - hearing Obama's policies described as socialist.

How our politics differ...!

Also people calling him an 'extreme leftist'

LOLZ! W....T....F.....?!!!

[gambit]

You're an "extreme leftist" in this country when you're not an extreme rightist. You mention universal healthcare, and suddenly, you're a socialist. It makes no sense whatsoever.

[cacophony]

Both of them said that the rich people work harder than anyone else in America.

i've found the opposite is true. i make pretty good scratch these days and i'm willing to go on record as saying i worked far far harder when i was making $11/hr as an assistant audio engineer.

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

YEAH! I BELONG.

[Sean]

you could argue that rally attendees represent a small portion of the total republican voter base. and if the bigoted attendees make up only a portion of that portion, you do end up with a "fringe element" responsible for the offensiveness.

we have to be careful not to do the same thing that happened when hillary didn't get the nomination. it was easy to look at the hillary rallies and say, "wow a lot of women are angry and will vote for mccain if she doesn't get the nod." but in reality that very visible, very vocal group turned out to be an itty bitty minority and most of her supporters won't defect after all.

just because these people are visible and vocal, we can't automatically decide they represent the whole.Well said. I guess the point that I'm concerned about though is that something seems amiss here, and it's probably one of two things. Either the "fringe" group is actually larger than what we anticipated and larger than McCain would have us believe, or the "fringe" group is being whipped into a greater frenzy than we anticipated thanks to the harsh tone of rallies being held by Palin, and to a lesser extent, McCain himself. Or it could even be some of both.

But either way, my concerns were summed up well by my brother when I was talking to him on the phone yesterday. He said that it seems like the VP picks this year are probably more meaningful than they've been in a loooong time, or possibly ever. In McCain's case, it's an important consideration due to his age and repeated brushes with one of the deadliest forms of cancer out there. In Obama's case, it's because the groups getting most fired up right now seem like the kind of folks who might own a bunch of guns and be willing to take a shot at him if he wins.

So while I agree that it may indeed be no more than a "fringe" group, I'm afraid it's an extremely dangerous fringe group. As King of Snake said in another thread, the growing sentiment being seeded by McCain's campaign about Obama is that "he's black, he's a muslim, a terrorist lover AND a communist all at the same time! 'KILL HIM!'". Only it's worse than that. It seems that some are even starting to believe Obama himself is a terrorist (http://www.gazetteonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081019/NEWS/710199982/1001/NEWS), and that he's an actual socialist (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081018/ap_on_el_pr/mccain)...which I assume will probably be viewed by the "fringe" element as just one tiny step from being a pinko commie that needs to be stopped.

[cacophony]

...or the "fringe" group is being whipped into a greater frenzy than we anticipated thanks to the harsh tone of rallies being held by Palin, and to a lesser extent, McCain himself.

^ this gets my vote. palin in particular is using the dark side of the force to influence the worst elements in america and whip them into a frenzy that she hopes will sweep her into office.

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

^ this gets my vote. palin in particular is using the dark side of the force to influence the worst elements in america and whip them into a frenzy that she hopes will sweep her into office.


So, like, are we fucked whether this mentality loses or wins?

[Sean]

So, like, are we fucked whether this mentality loses or wins?Let's hope not.

[King of Snake]

well the fact that MacCain/Palin are still in the race and actually still tied pretty close to Obama tells me that this "fringe element" must be pretty big. It's amazing how easily words like "socialist" and "terrorist" do their job in the USA.

[kagenaki koe]

there's sorta hope:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/20/muslim-mccain-fans-confro_n_136203.html

[Strangelet]

I think part of the problem is that in the States candidates have something like 5 or 6 months of solid campaigning (if not more) before the elections, whereas here in the UK they campaign for 5 weeks and that's that.

IMO that means that there is less time for resentments to build, badmouthing to be done and mud to be slung at each other through tv ads and the like.


while the advantages of this are clear, a candidate like obama would have have a much tougher time winning, in fact he would have pretty much lost the primary against hillary if the campaign time was compressed. I guess you could argue that a grass roots movement against status quo takes a lot longer to gel than a more incremental approach to policy change.

[Strangelet]

So while I agree that it may indeed be no more than a "fringe" group, I'm afraid it's an extremely dangerous fringe group. As King of Snake said in another thread, the growing sentiment being seeded by McCain's campaign about Obama is that "he's black, he's a muslim, a terrorist lover AND a communist all at the same time! 'KILL HIM!'". Only it's worse than that. It seems that some are even starting to believe Obama himself is a terrorist (http://www.gazetteonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081019/NEWS/710199982/1001/NEWS), and that he's an actual socialist (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081018/ap_on_el_pr/mccain)...which I assume will probably be viewed by the "fringe" element as just one tiny step from being a pinko commie that needs to be stopped.


Agreeing with you here. I can't possibly dismiss any of this vitriol with an assurance that those responsible are a fringe. fascists in Italy and germany were a fringe. bolsheviks in russia were a fringe, well out numbered, brutish, and high on their own piety.

[King of Snake]

there's sorta hope:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/20/muslim-mccain-fans-confro_n_136203.html

thanks for that. Glad to see not everyone in the McCain camp wants to be associated with the racists and the ignorant.

[Camiel]

Meh, I dunno, that looked mighty staged to me.

[BeautifulBurnout]

I think the "Vote for Terriost Obama" is up there with him being a Muslin, don't you?

Seriously. Just shows the level of education we are dealing with here - makes me think of the trailer park family in Mars Attacks!

These people need to at least learn to write if they want to be proper professional bigots.

[Troy McClure]

thanks for that. Glad to see not everyone in the McCain camp wants to be associated with the racists and the ignorant.

That man from the McCain campaign was supposed to be on CNN but at the last second the Senator's campaign pulled him back.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/21/cnn-host-mystified-by-mcc_n_136479.html

That makes no sense...a perfect chance to diffuse the growing sentiment about McCain's campaign and they blow it....again.

Jason

[kagenaki koe]

McCain camp doesnt want to scare away the millions of ignorant voters with a middle east looking dude. they want more of those hate flyer distributors getting "the word" out.

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

Look at this shit: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27321165/

And I just want to listen to some music in my cell.

[//\/\/]

literally asking for a miracle now (http://embeds.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/10/22/palin-the-election-is-all-in-gods-hands/)

:D amazing how desperate they're becoming!

[Sean]

Meh, I dunno, that looked mighty staged to me.Staged or not, it's good to see a more positive message from some McCain supporters. I know there are good people who support him, and I'm sure they hate being lumped in with morons like the man and woman distributing those idiotic bumper stickers.