a thread to discuss the 9/26 debate

[cacophony]

opening statements/first question:

obama's got to get better at his delivery. he hesitates and says "uh" too much.

mccain, on the other hand, sounded a little like he was meandering and he didn't pinpoint issues.

in the followup mccain almost sounded apologetic.

so far i've got a weird vibe from both candidates. :confused:

[Deckard]

Yeah I agree. It's a strange start.

McCain is sounding surprisingly nervous and shaky.

So far, Obama is doing a good job of getting his message out but it's not necessarily answering the question!

[Deckard]

OK, Obama's waffling now on the pork barrel issue....

[Deckard]

"my friends"

*glug*

[gambit]

Ireland has 11% tax on businesses, so businesses are going to relocate to Ireland?

[chuck]

live stream details please - cranial synapses still reeling from couric-palin interview.
higher brain fucnitions impeded.

help needed.

[Jan]

http://www.myspace.com/mydebates

[Deckard]

or here
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/video_and_audio/default.stm

McCain is sounding good on Afghanistan, particularly promising not to repeat the mistake of the past.

[chuck]

mccain's babbling now though.... stories of little old ladies.

"I've got a bracelet too".... now Obama's doing it.

it's not midday yet - I can't start drinking

[kagenaki koe]

with McCain namedropping Petreus so much, i'm surprised Obama hasn't brought up Petreus' recent comments that, this war isnt a war that you can claim victory on.

[gambit]

I can't tell who's winning. Is someone winning?

[chuck]

um. methinks Mccain got pwned on that point about Iran.

and is it just me - or does Obama just sound more measured, deliberate and uh... Presidential.

McCain "the average south korean is 3 inches taller.... " wtf?

he's grasping.

[Deckard]

Obama just brought up that McCain won't meet with the leader of Spain.

[kagenaki koe]

I can't tell who's winning. Is someone winning?

Obama has been more specific, McCain is resorting to telling stories of who he's met etc. they're both fairly even (not counting some of McCain lying)

[Deckard]

Oh FFS McCain, stop bringing up Reagan... :rolleyes:

[gambit]

Obama just brought up that McCain won't meet with the leader of Spain.And McCain said he doesn't have a seal yet.

[Deckard]

I can't tell who's winning. Is someone winning?
Tricky - I would say Obama, but I think it depends who's judging. Obama could be coming across as too waffly. I mean... "deductibles"?

[kagenaki koe]

McCain is just going through his list of talking points......and talking about who he's met and what places he's gone to...again.

man, Johnny Mac is coming across very grampa-ish with his "let me tell you about a story, kids..."

[Deckard]

Yeah I get that impression too.

[chuck]

jesus - I'm half expecting McCain to start showing his holiday pictures.

"This is me near standing on the pipeline"

He keeps using big words - like it means he's smarter.

[Deckard]

They're talking aboutu Russia.

Someone get Governor Palin, quick....

[kagenaki koe]

McCain is spending a lot of time reminiscing, Obama is staying on point.

[chuck]

I like how Obama is almost directing the debate - he works well with the host.

And he's not letting McCain get away with much.

Mac is just waffling along the talking points.

[kagenaki koe]

McCain can't seem to get his nuts off Iraq.

[chuck]

wtf is mccain on.

totally ignores Obama's critique - and goes back to Iraq.

Obama is killing him here.

[cacophony]

Ireland has 11% tax on businesses, so businesses are going to relocate to Ireland?

yeah i was humming along, following the debate and suddenly it was like a needle scratching on a record. "ireland? did he just bring up ireland?" it was a really weird place to go with his point.

[chuck]

jesus. mccain loves them now - he's totally lost it.

he sounds like he's running for student council president.

[cacophony]

i don't agree that obama is winning or owning anything here. i think he's stammering and saying "um" a lot and mccain's misrepresentations are being lobbed out in nicely packaged talking points. i think overall mccain is putting on a very good performance and obama is doing moderately well.

overall i anticipate that mccain will get the most bounce in the post-debate polls.

[Deckard]

McCain clearly had that closing point well-rehearsed.

Now Obama's addressing the camera....

[kagenaki koe]

Johnny Mac, instead of addressing the various points Obama brought up, went into his "I can do it, i have that record" shpiel.:rolleyes:

[Deckard]

That 'love' remark sounded weird but I suspect will have gone down well. McCain is sounding cuddly. :eek:

[kagenaki koe]

considering this was supposed to be mainly about foreign policy, McCain's strong suit, McCain didn't hit any homeruns.

[chuck]

Yeah - but McCain didn't say anything. It was just the same old shit. And he ignored the points that Obama made.

Obama to me - came across as having a broader vision, more strategic, more statesmanlike.

which is what a president is meant to be.

[Deckard]

BBC News ticker...

John McCain - a nuclear armed Iran would threaten a 'second Holocaust' against Israel.

Barack Obama: a resurgent Russia is a threat to its region but we cannot return to a Cold War scenario.

McCain wins on that particular soundbite.

[gambit]

i don't agree that obama is winning or owning anything here. i think he's stammering and saying "um" a lot and mccain's misrepresentations are being lobbed out in nicely packaged talking points. i think overall mccain is putting on a very good performance and obama is doing moderately well.

overall i anticipate that mccain will get the most bounce in the post-debate polls.I'll have to agree for the most part. Chris Matthews was just talking about McCain's body language and how he never really looked at Obama. Don't know how this will be seen.

[chuck]

And we should do this in an irc channel or something next time.

just not twitter - coz tweets are rubbish.

[Deckard]

Obama was clearly superior in terms of argument, but that's not to say he will have won the debate. One thing I would say is that the debate as a whole was of a noticeably higher standard than any of the Bush/Kerry encounters, so that was encouraging.

Anyway - not staying up to hear who the talking heads feel won it - way past my bedtime now....

[Deckard]

And we should do this in an irc channel or something next time.
We should.

[chuck]

Just watching the part 2 of the Couric - Palin interview - where she talks foreign policy - or attempts to talk about it.

She says much the same as McCain - "second holocaust", the exact same argument about diplomatic talks with Iran - Couric even calls her on the Kissinger detail - and she repeats the line that Obama is naive to want talks without pre-conditions.

Same argument - but still pointless.

[dubman]

i think neither f them came out for better or for worse. obama stammered a lot but trout-slapped mcfudd on occasion, mccain brought up some grasping points and was generally the classic GOP antagonist, but no one made any gaffes that would ring crazy outside of the supersensitive crowd, it just comes down to policy and global outlook for whoever watching, and who mirrors their attitude best.

in short, it wont (or shouldnt) change anything.

[kagenaki koe]

a plus for Obama: on post-debate news Biden is available for his points, Palin is not.

ha!

[Troy McClure]

Might as well post my opinion for history. Neither one did so well / so bad that they'll gain / lose support in the polls. McCain stuck to his script. Obama seemed to adjust better. But Obama didn't go after McCain about his poor voting record on recent veteran's funding and not support the new GI Bill. Obama should have gone for the jugular then. McCain not looking at Obama when Obama was engaging him was a clear dick move by McCain, but I doubt most people noticed.

Jason

[kagenaki koe]

Obama could've scored big if he had attacked McCain when Johnny dipped into the Petreaus/Victory In Iraq puppetline by talking about Petreaus' more recent comments that there is no "victory" in Iraq:

This is not the sort of struggle where you take a hill, plant the flag and go home to a victory parade... it's not war with a simple slogan."

[gambit]

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/09/26/politics/horserace/entry4482028.shtml

CBS News and Knowledge Networks conducted a nationally representative poll of approximately 500 uncommitted voters reacting to the debate in the minutes after it happened.

These figures are still preliminary and could change as more respondents complete the survey. But here's what we have so far:

Forty percent of uncommitted voters who watched the debate tonight thought Barack Obama was the winner. Twenty-two percent thought John McCain won. Thirty-eight percent saw it as a draw.

Forty-six percent of uncommitted voters said their opinion of Obama got better tonight.

Sixty-eight percent of uncommitted voters think Obama would make the right decisions about the economy. Forty-one percent think McCain would.

Forty-nine percent of these voters think Obama would make the right decisions about Iraq. Fifty-five percent think McCain would.

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

Just the first of three guys.

[Sean]

CNN gives it to Obama (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/26/poll-both-men-beat-expectations-but-obama-had-the-edge/) too. Overall:

Fifty-one percent of those polled in a CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey of Americans who viewed the debate say that Obama won. Thirty-eight percent of those polled say that John McCain did the best job.

Tonight supposedly being McCain's strongest subject, I'd say this is a damaging loss for him.

A Drudge Report poll (http://www.drudgereport.com/) has McCain winning right now though. Although I think Drudge Report pulls in more conservatives than liberals.

[Troy McClure]

Here's a detailed CBS poll showing numbers pre- and post- debate among undecideds. Some areas of improvement that Senator Obama made with the group are astonishing just after the first debate.

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/2008Debate1.pdf

Per CBS:
Nearly half of those uncommitted voters who watched the debate said that their image of Obama changed for the better as a result. Just 8% say their opinion of Obama got worse, and 46% reported no change in their opinions.

THE DEBATE’S EFFECT ON OPINIONS OF THE CANDIDATES
(Among uncommitted voters who watched debate)


McCain saw less improvement in his image. 32% have improved their image of McCain as a result of the debate, but 21% said their views of him are now worse than before.

Obama McCain
Better 46% 32%

Worse 8% 21%

No change 46% 47%


Jason

[Deckard]

This can only mean one thing...




http://i38.tinypic.com/spkc1s.gif

[rayray]

did mccain make eye contact once with obama - it was weird, came off as so angry that he couldn't even look at him. what a bizarre dynamic from a presidential candidate.

[Deckard]

There was hardly any eye contact from McCain - it was like he didn't want to be seen to be acknowledging Obama as an equal. I suspect he'll be briefed on that between now and the next debate - along with that creepy smirk and that occasional Bush-like snickering that he did.

Gotta say, I'm surprised CNN etc are reporting that Obama 'won' the debate. Pleased but surprised.

[gambit]

Yeah, that's what a lot of pundits were discussing. McCain didn't look like he wanted to acknowledge Obama. But to be fair, one of Obama's big mistake(s) was saying "I agree with John" too much. I'm guessing some GOP ads in the coming days will have that spliced next to whatever McCain said.

[Sean]

did mccain make eye contact once with obama - it was weird, came off as so angry that he couldn't even look at him. what a bizarre dynamic from a presidential candidate. Yeah, I thought that seemed a little low-class. Obama would be speaking directly to McCain, and McCain would just stare off into the crowd refusing to return the eye contact, almost like he was pulling a fingers-in-the-ears "la la la la! I'm not listening!" type of thing.
Gotta say, I'm surprised CNN etc are reporting that Obama 'won' the debate. Pleased but surprised.It seemed like a toss-up at first, with the pundits calling it a draw overall....until the external poll numbers started coming in. That's when they started calling it for Obama. I feel so relieved for the moment.

[kagenaki koe]

did mccain make eye contact once with obama - it was weird, came off as so angry that he couldn't even look at him. what a bizarre dynamic from a presidential candidate.

he's that high school chick that sent invites to her party, and then bears an ubergrudge to those who didnt come to her party. re: the tone of his campaign is snarky because Obama refused his townhall meetings (and he repeats this when he said that the debate wouldnt have been important if only obama came to my party)

[bryantm3]

i tend to side with McCain on the town hall meetings. i think that would've been interesting— but we'll see how they do in the next debate, which is a town hall meeting.

personally, i thought it was a draw. McCain made some good points, and Obama made some good points. it was nothing like the first debate 4 years ago when Bush made a complete ass of himself; McCain and Obama are a better match.

[kagenaki koe]

i want you to go to my town meeting

i want you to suspend your campaign as i'm suspending mine

i want a meeting with the president and you need to be there

i want the debates posponed, and you shoud pospone it also.

i did this, i know how to do this.


with that kind of attitude, i don't think McCain would've been acting any differently whether it was a standard debate or a townhall meeting.

[Troy McClure]

Leave it to Chris Rock to uniquely analyze the debate on HBO's 'Real Time with Bill Maher':

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BStLF-jaIK8


Jason

[holden]

Good comments, i agree with y'all!

The debate was pretty entertaining, in that comincally, neither candidate actually answered any questions specifically, but rather gave their canned talking-point responses. Especially brilliant was the final question, which turned into their closing remarks instead of sticking to the issue.

That said, Obama seemed much more confident and willing to engage McCain and called him out on various "facts". Granted, he got some mixed up, too.
McCain did seem a little whiny with his "Sen. Obama just doesn't understand" repetition. Sadly, some folks will fall for that. Age and experience doesn't always equal good judgement. Then again, a strong debaterdoesn't automaticaly equate witha good next president.

[myrrh]

I thought that this debate was pretty poor. They didn't even really debate, they just spoke on different points.

I feel like neither person actually 'won'.

One thing I noticed that I didn't like about Obama was that he couldn't even get McCains first name right! He called him the wrong name 3 times that I heard!

I think that while Obama has some good speeches, and is an excellent orator, his choice of language is too heavy at times for the general American audience. While, McCain, on the other hand, may not have the vocabulary, but when he speaks he does so in simply common language, which more people can quickly pick up on and relate too.

The VP debate should be much more entertaining and sporting event like.

[Sean]

I thought that this debate was pretty poor. They didn't even really debate, they just spoke on different points.

I feel like neither person actually 'won'. CNN's "poll of polls" just came out showing that the debate changed nothing (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/30/cnn-poll-of-polls-debate-changed-nothing/). The conclusion based on this was that while Obama didn't "win" the debate, the draw plays into his favor as the front-runner, and leaves McCain still hoping for some way to break out.

One thing I noticed that I didn't like about Obama was that he couldn't even get McCains first name right! He called him the wrong name 3 times that I heard!Yeah, I remember wincing a little when that happened. It scared me given how the campaigns and media today are so ready to pounce on any tiny detail and immediately exploit it.