irony!

[cacophony]

as the author of the "GWB hates women" thread and the most outspoken "feminist" member here about the way in which hillary clinton has been discussed in past threads, i'm sure you good folks will appreciate this:

i have now been accused on 3 separate occasions of being "catty" and a "self-hating sexist" because i dislike sarah palin. it doesn't matter if my criticism takes the shape of actual policy dispute or a one-off comment about her demeanor (similar to the "omg GWB can't pronounce words" silliness), it is now impossible for me to express my dislike of this candidate to republicans without being "sexist." it doesn't matter that i've defended her, even on this very board, against what i feel are actual unfair comments that betray a gender-bias. the republican logic still prevails.

i just thought it was an interesting example of how powerful PR is. the republican party invented this discrimination and the party followers have eaten it up. and when someone like me, who i'm sure folks here view as something of a knee-jerk feminist, is accused of sexism by republican dittoheads, you know that's a powerful bit of political marketing.

so be afraid, everyone. it may look like a slam-dunk for obama but i think we're only just seeing the tip of the iceberg. the republicans have struck gold with a subversively divisive issue that will keep all of us from really caring about issues. we'll be lucky to hear another word about health care before this is through.

total political pandemonium this way lies.

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

Suck yo Blooood!

[Deckard]

Cacophony, perhaps you're sexist but don't realise it?

:p

I was reading on CNN somewhere that the Obama camp plan on keeping the focus away from Palin and on McCain. Probably wise.

I have a fear that Biden, no matter how hard he tries not to, will come across as patronising (and hence, in some people's eyes, sexist) when he's on TV debating her. Not through any particular fault of his. As someone so much older and more established than she is, and particularly if she struggles against him, it will be very hard for him to avoid unintentionally making her appear like the victim of, if not outright sexism, then certainly male-dominated Washington. He's going to have to be conscious of that, and handle it very carefully.

[gambit]

"How dare you question her and her policies that directly relate to what's going on with her daughter as if they in anyway had something to do with one another?! They would never ask this of a MAN!"

In all fairness, there has been some stupid talk regarding her and her 4 month-old child (or however old he is). But I agree; the GOP are masters of PR and working the refs. They've been in power for the past eight years and have screwed up this country so much, yet they've found a way to place the blame on everyone but them. Now they have a woman as VP candidate, and they can spin everything against her as being sexist. (Never mind, they were criticizing Hillary Clinton and her campaign whenever they mentioned sexism, but they're Democrats and, therefore, anti-American.)

Palin's going to be interviewed by ABC later this week, so I hope they ask her some tough questions. There are a whole host of questions I'd like to see her answer/dance around.

[Sarcasmo]

I love the way politics in this country inevitably devolves in the losing side just screaming at the top of their lungs until everything we care about discussing is drowned out in schoolyard bullshit. And by love, I mean to say, "I feel like blowing my fucking head off."

We can't discuss Sarah Palin's glaring deficiencies in experience or her questionable ethical behavior. God forbid we'd actually dig into her character to determine if she's qualified for just about the most powerful position on the planet. Noooooo, if we do that, we're obviously giving her shit because she's got a vagina instead of a penis.

And, as I've said before, if tactics like this get McCain and Palin into the White House, and the country keeps spiraling into the shitter, I'm going to grab every Republican I can find by the ears and scream, "You're the reason we can't have nice things, you idiotic fuck!"

We can't possibly be the only island on the internet that sees through this. How is it that this kind of bullshit isn't just dragged into the street so that everyone can see it for what it is?

[gambit]

We can't possibly be the only island on the internet that sees through this. How is it that this kind of bullshit isn't just dragged into the street so that everyone can see it for what it is?Because that would be sexist.

Buh dum dum ching!

[cacophony]

Cacophony, perhaps you're sexist but don't realise it?

:p

you might be onto something! maybe i'm a feminist because i secretly hate women! :eek:

[cacophony]

We can't possibly be the only island on the internet that sees through this. How is it that this kind of bullshit isn't just dragged into the street so that everyone can see it for what it is?

no, i feel the majority (being the population at large) does see this. the problem is, we've got a terrible record of actually getting the vote out. oh we love complaining and pointing out injustice and irony during the election season and between elections. but come election day we're really so very terrible at actually going out and casting a vote.

this has been a fundamental problem with the democrats. young voters in particular are great at forwarding outraged emails to everyone they know, but it all tends to fall apart when it comes time to actually cast a ballot.

the democrats have the numbers to win by a much wider margin than GWB won in either election. the question is, will anyone actually do anything about it?

[gambit]

you might be onto something! maybe i'm a feminist because i secretly hate women! :eek:Yeah, just like all those conservatives who try to outlaw gay marriage yet secretly have tons of gay sex!

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

We can't possibly be the only island on the internet that sees through this. How is it that this kind of bullshit isn't just dragged into the street so that everyone can see it for what it is?

Yeah, I mean, at least they get paid for this kind of shit.

And Sarcasmo, if we can't do schoolyard bullshit, what do I do now? Not who.

[dubman]

oh im waiting for the day someone tries this nonsense on me.
the shaming... will be very public.

[Strangelet]

it is now impossible for me to express my dislike of this candidate .... without being "sexist." it doesn't matter that i've defended her, even on this very board, against what i feel are actual unfair comments that betray a gender-bias.


yyyyyyyyyyeahhhhhhhhh.........



and when someone like me, who i'm sure folks here view as something of a knee-jerk feminist, is accused of sexism by republican dittoheads


fwiw, I never thought you were irrational in the slightest. I just think its easier to attack critics of their own irrationality than defend on point. And even easier when there is the posibility people are actually irrational, like on these forums. Its just in my case, I have absolutely no misogynist bone in my body, thank you very much.


so be afraid, everyone. it may look like a slam-dunk for obama but i think we're only just seeing the tip of the iceberg. the republicans have struck gold with a subversively divisive issue that will keep all of us from really caring about issues. we'll be lucky to hear another word about health care before this is through.

total political pandemonium this way lies.

I was so sure of the inevitability of lessons learned that I convinced my wife content were she was to come back with me to the states. Who was it that said no one ever went broke underestimating the american people? I wonder how many people have gone broke over estimating them.

[cacophony]

I wonder how many people have gone broke over estimating them.

looking at the federal budget deficit, i'd say all of us. ;)

[Sean]

i have now been accused on 3 separate occasions of being "catty" and a "self-hating sexist" because i dislike sarah palin.Wow....not just "sexist", but "self-hating sexist"! Clearly these people have an incredible ability to see deep into your psyche and recognize that not only are you a sexist, you're actually so sexist that you even hate yourself....:rolleyes:

it doesn't matter if my criticism takes the shape of actual policy dispute or a one-off comment about her demeanor (similar to the "omg GWB can't pronounce words" silliness), it is now impossible for me to express my dislike of this candidate to republicans without being "sexist." it doesn't matter that i've defended her, even on this very board, against what i feel are actual unfair comments that betray a gender-bias. the republican logic still prevails.It seems that you and I come at the issue of sexism from slightly different directions ;), so the fact that we're on the same page with this issue tells me that yes, the cries of "sexism" in regards to Sarah Palin are way off base, and to my mind, are even offensive in their blatant opportunism and hypocrisy. And the fact that so many people 1 - are so thrilled with her, and 2 - have adopted this "sexism" plea in regards to her, once again lowers my opinion of human intelligence, honesty, and decency. It amazes me that every time I think I have some loosely realistic idea of where we are as a species, I discover something else that surprises me in a negative way.

i just thought it was an interesting example of how powerful PR is. the republican party invented this discrimination and the party followers have eaten it up. and when someone like me, who i'm sure folks here view as something of a knee-jerk feminist, is accused of sexism by republican dittoheads, you know that's a powerful bit of political marketing.The question that keeps popping into my mind is, while the Republicans are clearly gaining some traction with this lame tact, are there really many people who actually believe it? It's so hard for me to accept that some random, objective viewer could be watching an exchange like this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rj2dMb6fecY) or this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oxZYoVdV7A), and decide that the person who's really making sense on the issue of sexism is Michelle Bachmann. Especially when you consider what an ardent supporter of Hillary's James Carville was. It just seems more likely to me that the conservative base has strategically latched onto this argument despite realizing that it's utter b.s., and the left simply recognizes it as the b.s. it is. So that really only leaves the middle, and are they actually sitting around scratching their heads and wondering "hm...is what James Carville just said demeaning to women? I just don't know..." But again, I've been surprised and disappointed by people before.

so be afraid, everyone. it may look like a slam-dunk for obama but i think we're only just seeing the tip of the iceberg. the republicans have struck gold with a subversively divisive issue that will keep all of us from really caring about issues. we'll be lucky to hear another word about health care before this is through.

total political pandemonium this way lies. Well, as much as I'm not a fan of hers, I personally think that this is a job for Hillary Clinton. She set herself up as such a voice for American women that she's probably the only one who would be able to go after Palin outright while remaining immune to the crap claims of sexism. I know she's just been sent to Florida to do some campaigning for Obama, so hopefully this is included as part of her strategy.

EDIT - Looks like my question about Clinton has been answered (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080908/D932RNEO0.html). She, like the overall Obama campaign, is focusing less on Palin and more on the overall election and McCain:

At least one Clinton supporter tried instigating that fight (between Clinton and Palin) during a Tampa rally later Monday, interrupting her speech with a shout of "Tell us about Palin!"

Clinton didn't take the bait.

"You know what? I don't think that's what this election is about. This election is about the differences between us and the Republican Party," she said to cheers from the crowd of more than 1,000. "Anybody who believes that the Republicans, whoever they are, can fix the mess they created probably believes that the iceberg could have saved the Titanic."

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

Wow....not just "sexist", but "self-hating sexist"! Clearly these people have an incredible ability to see deep into your psyche and recognize that not only are you a sexist, you're actually so sexist that you even hate yourself....:rolleyes:

It seems that you and I come at the issue of sexism from slightly different directions ;), so the fact that we're on the same page with this issue tells me that yes, the cries of "sexism" in regards to Sarah Palin are way off base, and to my mind, are even offensive in their blatant opportunism and hypocrisy. And the fact that so many people 1 - are so thrilled with her, and 2 - have adopted this "sexism" plea in regards to her, once again lowers my opinion of human intelligence, honesty, and decency. It amazes me that every time I think I have some loosely realistic idea of where we are as a species, I discover something else that surprises me in a negative way.

The question that keeps popping into my mind is, while the Republicans are clearly gaining some traction with this lame tact, are there really many people who actually believe it? It's so hard for me to accept that some random, objective viewer could be watching an exchange like this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rj2dMb6fecY) or this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oxZYoVdV7A), and decide that the person who's really making sense on the issue of sexism is Michelle Bachmann. Especially when you consider what an ardent supporter of Hillary's James Carville was. It just seems more likely to me that the conservative base has strategically latched onto this argument despite realizing that it's utter b.s., and the left simply recognizes it as the b.s. it is. So that really only leaves the middle, and are they actually sitting around scratching their heads and wondering "hm...is what James Carville just said demeaning to women? I just don't know..." But again, I've been surprised and disappointed by people before.

Well, as much as I'm not a fan of hers, I personally think that this is a job for Hillary Clinton. She set herself up as such a voice for American women that she's probably the only one who would be able to go after Palin outright while remaining immune to the crap claims of sexism. I know she's just been sent to Florida to do some campaigning for Obama, so hopefully this is included as part of her strategy.

iokdn sijmk si silmd?