PDA

View Full Version : Spanish Olympic basketball team racist photos


Sean
08-12-2008, 11:19 AM
Well, this is extremely disappointing to see (http://olympics.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/12/spanish-ad-spurs-charges-of-racism/). An advertisement in the Spanish sport publication "Marca" in which the entire men's and women's basketball teams are pictured stretching their eyes to make them look slanted, and apparently, "no one involved in the advert appears to have considered it inappropriate nor contemplated the manner in which it could be interpreted in China and elsewhere."

Dumb-asses.

IsiliRunite
08-12-2008, 11:33 PM
I want to know who the jackass on the team who was like "Yeah this'll get the fans hype!"

dubman
08-13-2008, 12:24 AM
i think ive watched a total of 15 minutes out of these olympic games so far but i'm really liking this one mostly based on how everybody seems to be doing something ridiculously awkward

LOL

Rog
08-13-2008, 02:22 AM
Well, this is extremely disappointing to see (http://olympics.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/12/spanish-ad-spurs-charges-of-racism/). An advertisement in the Spanish sport publication "Marca" in which the entire men's and women's basketball teams are pictured stretching their eyes to make them look slanted, and apparently, "no one involved in the advert appears to have considered it inappropriate nor contemplated the manner in which it could be interpreted in China and elsewhere."

Dumb-asses.

if you add this to the Lewis Hamilton thing and the monkey chants aimed at black footballers in spain then you could sumise that they're a bunch of racist bastards..............

//\/\/
08-13-2008, 05:34 AM
...along with the thierry henry episode...

Rog
08-13-2008, 08:45 AM
and this............

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2333098/Spain's-racism-shame.html

cured
08-13-2008, 09:48 AM
Gasol, Calderon question fuss over photo

By Martin Rogers, Yahoo! Sports 3 hours, 4 minutes ago

Yahoo! Sports

BEIJING – Pau Gasol sat courtside with his feet dunked in a bucket of ice as the irony of ironies unfolded around him.

The Los Angeles Lakers center had just finished training Wednesday at the Beijing Language and Culture University, where students from around the world gather to learn Mandarin and promote international understanding.

Four days into the most global of events, and surrounded by buildings which foster social harmony across all colors and creeds, Gasol had to apologize for the actions of a Spanish men’s basketball team that made Asian “slant eyes” at the camera for a sponsor’s advertisement and thinks it’s OK.

Around him, his teammates and coaches reacted to the criticism homing in on them from around the world with a mixture of embarrassment, confusion and some mild defiance. The ad in question was for a Spanish courier company, Seur, but the Spanish team also counts the athletic shoe and apparel company owned by Li Ning – the former Chinese Olympian who lit the torch at this summer’s Games – among its sponsors.
ADVERTISEMENT

Jose Calderon of the Toronto Raptors has spent the last three years in North America, but he didn’t get it. He could still not understand how an action with such deep racial undertones had generated so much attention. In his mind a non-story became a story only when it was blown out of proportion by journalists with a mind for mischief.

“We did it because we thought it was going to be something nice, something with no problem,” Calderon told Yahoo! Sports. “But somebody wants to talk about it. It is too much of a big deal with you guys (the media) and everybody talking about that.”

Head coach AÃ*to GarcÃ*a Reneses didn’t get it, either. Reneses comes from an older generation of Spanish society, one which has little time for the politically correct niceties of the modern world.

“If I go to play with a taller team and I put here (raising up on the tips of his toes) it is not an offense,” Reneses said. “I can’t understand anything more.”

But Gasol got it. He didn’t get it when the Spanish courier company persuaded the players to pose with their index fingers stretching their eyes to a thin slit at a team media day, but he sure as heck gets it now.

“Some of us didn’t feel comfortable doing it just because to me it was a little clownish for our part to be doing that,” Gasol said. “But the sponsors insisted and insisted. I think it is just a bad idea I guess to do that, but it was never intended to be offensive or racist against anybody.

“I didn’t find it very funny. I didn’t find it offensive, either. I guess some guys didn’t mind. To me I don’t want to be that way, I guess, to be doing that stuff.

“If anybody feels offended by it we totally apologize for it. We never meant anything offensive by it.”

The advertisement has regularly run as a full page in Spanish sports daily Marca soon after the picture was taken on July 1. However, it only came to prominence after it reached the attention of the Guardian newspaper in London this week.

Spanish sports is no stranger to racial controversy.

Luis Aragones, the head coach of Spain’s men’s soccer team, was overheard telling his player Jose Antonio Reyes to “tell that black (expletive) you are better than him” at a training session in 2004. Aragones was referring to Thierry Henry, a black player from France who was then a teammate of Reyes at English Premier League club Arsenal.

Aragones also struggled to understand what all the fuss was about, even as anti-racism groups seethed and soccer’s power brokers held their heads.

At a Formula One motor racing testing session this year, a group of Spanish fans believed to be supporting home driver Fernando Alonso were pictured with their faces covered with black paint. They wore T-shirts with the slogan “Hamilton’s Family,” a reference to Alonso’s world title rival Lewis Hamilton, a black Englishman.

Moreover, at an exhibition match in Madrid in 2004, several black members of the England men’s soccer team were subjected to monkey chants and whistles whenever they touched the ball.

Back in Spain, there has been no criticism of the advertisement, just support for a group of players who shoulders the hopes of a nation. Members of the Spanish media who spoke to Yahoo! Sports on Wednesday could not grasp why the issue had garnered so much publicity.

And while Gasol, in many ways the public face of Spain’s basketball team, sensed the photo was not a great idea, he refused to back down from his assertion that no harm was intended.

“If you put it in the wrong context and put it with the wrong people or a different kind of people, you could take it that way,” he said. “But not with our group and not with our people. I would find that a wrong read.”

------------------------------------------

I'm kind of curious what Miguel's take on this situation is. Are spaniards really racially insensitive by some manner of ignorance to how its perceived or do they think it's really a small, almost schoolyard taunt meant to poke fun, or where in between does it lie?

Sean
08-13-2008, 10:23 AM
I'm kind of curious what Miguel's take on this situation is. Are spaniards really racially insensitive by some manner of ignorance to how its perceived or do they think it's really a small, almost schoolyard taunt meant to poke fun, or where in between does it lie?That's where my greatest curiosity lies too. They keep saying it wasn't meant to be racist or offensive, yet they haven't explained exactly what the supposed reasoning behind doing it was. That's why it's hard to understand how they don't recognize the offensiveness - the only real application of the "slanted eye" gesture is to taunt someone who's Asian. It's designed to be offensive. But they supposedly had some other goal in mind when doing it? :confused:

chuck
08-14-2008, 01:57 AM
From NZ Herald report (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/event/story.cfm?c_id=502&objectid=10527014):

"The Spanish basketball federation declined to comment Wednesday. "The players explained what happened," Villanueva said. "We think that's enough."

bahahaha - nice palm off - it's the players fault.

"We have great respect for the far East and its people, some of my best friends in Toronto are originally Chinese, including one of our sponsors, the brand Li Ning," Calderon wrote. "Whoever wants to interpret it differently is completely confusing it."

Frank Zhang, Li Ning's director of government and public affairs, played down the incident.

"We don't think this is an insulting gesture to the Chinese," Zhang said. "In fact, the gesture shows that the Spanish team is so humorous, relaxing and cute. They sat around a dragon pattern, which we think showed respect to the Chinese.

"Li Ning Ltd. will not change any business plans with the Spanish team because of this," Zhang added. "People should focus on great Olympic Games instead of something else."

------

That's original - the old "some of my friends are...." - but with a twist. He's specific "in Toronto" - and he's not even sure if they were Chinese - "originally Chinese".

hahahaha

Possibly they could have been of Korean extraction - or maybe Hong Kong-ese?? :rolleyes:

Money talks baby.

This is the Olympic$ - it's all about the deal. Doing it - and keeping it.

Deckard
08-14-2008, 04:50 AM
Even besides the racism, it's the sheer irony-free juvenile attitude underpinning it that confuses me. Not so much "what were they thinking?" as "were they even bothering to think?"

I wonder if they'd have taken a similar approach had the Games been held in India or Israel or Ghana, however unlikely?

BeautifulBurnout
08-14-2008, 06:50 AM
I just see this as totally dumbass rather than overtly racist. They clearly have all their brains in their basketball boots. Although as Deckard says, it leaves one wondering what they would have done if the games had been hosted by an African nation, for example. Eejits.

Sean
08-14-2008, 08:34 AM
I just see this as totally dumbass rather than overtly racist. They clearly have all their brains in their basketball boots. Although as Deckard says, it leaves one wondering what they would have done if the games had been hosted by an African nation, for example. Eejits.I'm actually with you on this. That's why I called the photos racist, but the players dumb-asses. It seems that this was all rooted in extreme ignorance rather than intentional maliciousness, but their inability to understand the reactions they're getting make me think that 1- they're even dumber than I thought, or 2- they're now hiding their maliciousness behind a weak veil of ignorance. Given past incidents that we've seen in Spanish sports, I lean towards option 2.

jOHN rODRIGUEZ
08-14-2008, 01:07 PM
Simply disgusting.

A slap in the face to the human race.

I'd tell The People of China to eat a pot of beans and then fart on their heads, but I know they're above that.

I'm not!!!!!

Sean
08-15-2008, 11:38 PM
And now pictures of the Spanish Olympic women's tennis team doing the same thing have come out.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/olympics/2559578/Beijing-Olympics-Second-Spanish-team-photographed-making-slit-eyed-gesture.html

Absolutely unbelievable.

dubman
08-16-2008, 01:26 AM
"fuck yeah crass mistakes partyyyyyyyy..."

damn i almost love it.

jOHN rODRIGUEZ
08-16-2008, 12:04 PM
I'm working on the bomb(Onions & Bacon added for an exxtra kick).

I'll do a sound recording in the next few days and post it hear!!!!!!

Deckard
08-16-2008, 01:54 PM
And now pictures of the Spanish Olympic women's tennis team doing the same thing have come out.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/olympics/2559578/Beijing-Olympics-Second-Spanish-team-photographed-making-slit-eyed-gesture.html

Absolutely unbelievable.
Just bizarre. Be interested to know if anyone has interviewed any of these people about it. Do they really see it as harmless as, say, portraying the French with small moustaches, berets, and onions round their neck?

I'm working on the bomb(Onions & Bacon added for an exxtra kick).

I'll do a sound recording in the next few days and post it hear!!!!!!
:confused:
(as usual)

dubman
08-16-2008, 02:10 PM
Just bizarre. Be interested to know if anyone has interviewed any of these people about it. Do they really see it as harmless as, say, portraying the French with small moustaches, berets, and onions round their neck?

onions?
i understood it to be the baguette and wine combo. with the berets and striped shirts.
which i, as a frenchman, always thought was a little funny.

chuck
08-16-2008, 03:20 PM
I think the difference between the frenchman 'spoof' (for lack of a better term) and the slanty eyes act - is subtle and blatant.

The French one is showing things that are iconically French - whilst the Chinese gesture is aimed at specifically ethnically physical features. It's not mocking ironically - it's targetting and pointing out specific elements of a people group.

Does that makes sense - I don't mean to sound like a wanky sociologist - but I think the Chinese one is very different. It's subtly different, but if you make a gesture like that you are not laughing 'with' the Chinese or other Asian cultures - you're laughing 'at' them.

In the same vein - you wouldn't say the elements of Spanish football crowds that make monkey noises at black-skinned players are being mockingly ironic or amusingly shallow.

To my mind anyway.

I think the mitigating circumstances - as pointed out by Ian and Rog above, show a very bizarre lack of understanding/empathy about the world in general. I don't think these actions represent every Spaniard - but I find it interesting that instead of refuting or even claiming responsibility - the powers that be in this case seem mainly to be attacking the critics.

It's not like Pau Gasol is going to be making slanty eye gestures in the next game he plays against Yao Ming is he? You know - in the warm up shoot around.

Deckard
08-16-2008, 03:38 PM
I think the difference between the frenchman 'spoof' (for lack of a better term) and the slanty eyes act - is subtle and blatant........
Just to clarify: I get the difference, completely. I was merely wondering whether, in Spain, that difference isn't appreciated, and whether there's a different somewhat more naive lack of sensitivity.

jOHN rODRIGUEZ
08-16-2008, 11:43 PM
:confused:
(as usual)


I really do make the beat pot of beans around. My Papa & I argue over whether lard or bacon fat works best for the refrying portion.

sanblaster
08-17-2008, 01:51 PM
Oh my fucking god.



I just came back from Alicante. In 48 hours or so, when my ears are clean of sand I will try to write a proper reply.

Sean
08-19-2008, 09:28 AM
And now the Argentinian women's soccer team has been found to have been photographed making the same, ignorant, stretched eye gesture. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/olympics/2581173/Beijing-Olympics-Now-Argentinas-footballers-photographed-making-slit-eyed-gesture.html)

And an article about the overall issue of apparent acceptability of racial slurs in Latin countries here (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/spain/2584631/Olympic-team-photos-put-spotlight-on-Latin-sporting-racism.html).

This has been quite an eye opening display for me. No pun intended.

IsiliRunite
08-21-2008, 05:16 AM
I don't think this classifies as racism to a lot of people who live in countries that lack ethnic diversity, just to mention that point. Most of us interact with people on a daily basis of a different ethnicity and value their character over their outside appearance, so we are most offended when there seems to be a judgement made on meaningless-to-us physical appearance. Chinese people are foreign, different, and obscure to the Spanish; nobody brought up the racist overtones and being offensive to Chinese because the half-way around the world Chinese are not quite 'real' people to these athletes. I believe the picture was a result of certain Spanish people subconsciously finding security and comfort in ignorance and 'purity' from a very early age, consequently reflecting that in their comedy (especially during a time of nervousness and anticipation). The merits of the picture weren't questioned because of that same ignorance; same cause, two observed actions.

This incident is related to, but clearly distinct, from the football race-based heckling which is moreso the average bloke rationalizing his dislike of an opponent with racism because he can't think of anything more creative and consequently expressing his racist views because his own racism tells him that its acceptable. Those hooligans probably don't hate black people but they certainly don't mind adding their own negative judgements, based on club loyalty and whatnot, to an already-lurking racial prejudice .

I guess I don't feel as angry as I did when I saw this, like there is something we can do in the world to get rid of this; now I'm just sad this all roots in cognitive and humanistic failures and wont' stop any time soon...

You all should remember that nobody ever thinks quite like you do, when approaching situations like these. Become another person for a moment...

Sean
08-21-2008, 11:33 AM
I don't think this classifies as racism to a lot of people who live in countries that lack ethnic diversity, just to mention that point. Most of us interact with people on a daily basis of a different ethnicity and value their character over their outside appearance, so we are most offended when there seems to be a judgement made on meaningless-to-us physical appearance. Chinese people are foreign, different, and obscure to the Spanish; nobody brought up the racist overtones and being offensive to Chinese because the half-way around the world Chinese are not quite 'real' people to these athletes. I believe the picture was a result of certain Spanish people subconsciously finding security and comfort in ignorance and 'purity' from a very early age, consequently reflecting that in their comedy (especially during a time of nervousness and anticipation). The merits of the picture weren't questioned because of that same ignorance; same cause, two observed actions.I agree that the underlying cause here is most likely ignorance, and that the photos don't necessarily mean that the people in them are racists. But I also think that the photos themselves can be accurately labeled as racist in that they portray an action that's sole purpose is meant to disparage a group of people based only on their physical appearance. A good analogy would be like a 3 year old unexpectedly using the "n" word - they're just parroting the word without any understanding of the connotations it raises, so the kid's not racist, but the word still is.

But where the problem really lies for me is that it's very hard to understand how the Spanish (and Argentinians) can be so glaringly ignorant in our ever-shrinking world. Or think of it this way - my analogy, by necessity, needed to use a 3 year old in order to convey the level of ignorance that's on display here, despite the fact that we're talking about young adults. I mean for example, when I read the news online as many younger people do, I'm reading articles from around the world, with varying perspectives and concepts that just a couple decades ago, would've been beyond my reach and/or understanding. And the people on these teams are of course part of the younger generation, and have even been competing internationally for a while. Don't they have internet access, or any communications with people outside of their own culture that might clue them in to the fact that painting themselves up in black-face, or making monkey sounds at black players, or stretching their eyes like this is hurtful to the people on the receiving end? Are Spain and Argentina really in that much of an isolated bubble?

So if it's purely ignorance that's behind this, then it's absolutely stunning, almost willful ignorance of the highest order.

This incident is related to, but clearly distinct, from the football race-based heckling which is moreso the average bloke rationalizing his dislike of an opponent with racism because he can't think of anything more creative and consequently expressing his racist views because his own racism tells him that its acceptable. Those hooligans probably don't hate black people but they certainly don't mind adding their own negative judgements, based on club loyalty and whatnot, to an already-lurking racial prejudice.I have no confidence that I understand the full reasons behind these photos, so I don't know how to compare past instances of racist behavior from Latin countries to what's happening right now.

You all should remember that nobody ever thinks quite like you do, when approaching situations like these. Become another person for a moment...I am. I'm thinking of Asian people, like my wife who's of Korean descent, who have had to be on the receiving end of stretched-eye gestures and taunts of "ching chong ching" all her life, up to and including now. As I said earlier, the photos may be born of ignorance, but does that in any way justify or excuse them? I'm not so sure it does in today's world.

IsiliRunite
08-21-2008, 01:08 PM
What I'm trying to say is...

They don't change or don't strive toward being more aware because it doesn't hurt them not to be; that is why most of the athletes didn't think anything of the pictures. American racists at least know they are racist. Like I said, this is an innate cultural tradition of ignorance through purity and has no reason to be shaken up. Its just there, and there's no reason to change it because it doesn't rear its ugly head to negatively affect the nation seriously or often enough. Not very many people within Spain can relate to being on the receiving end of racism, and ethnic Spaniards from Spain are consequently more likely to present something we deem as "racist" without the intent to offend. If they had a t-shirt that said "Chinos son maricon" that would be racism by our most common definition. Deliberate, offensive and most of all self-aware.

Its not ignorance like michael jackson would say, its ignorance as in "cluelessness". If racism/cluelessness was tearing the country apart or negatively affecting the country in any obvious way, they'd work towards getting rid of it. Most Spaniards don't walk around convincing each other about how superior they are in the way a lot of "racists" that we know tend to do, although I'm sure SOME are total fucking bigots, but it just happens because they are human beings who have not been been made aware of a more civilized approach to ensuring that all human beings are held in a high regard at all time. I'm sure Spaniards are racist from day to day in various amounts on a individual by individual basis. Racism is based on cognitive laziness and a bias of familiarity on the individual level. But on the Spanish societal level; This offensive photo is an attempted joke, and not an insult. Sometimes when we make jokes, we have to restrain ourselves because we know that what we are going to say is offensive; that filter does not exist in these people's minds with respect to ethnicity. There is no sensitivity because there is no awareness of how respect for all ethnicities is or is not demonstrated and the negative things that arise when that respect is absent. This photo is not racist in the most common use of the term because the Spaniards do NOT understand that this image represents making a joke out of the physical appearance of an ethnicity, which is itself disrespectful. Literally. Its THAT bad. This is an offensive, but not deliberate or intentional jab towards ethnicities. If you're gonna call it racism, at least add an adjective on it for the sake of humanity....

This is more of an expression of ethnic anti-harmony than expressing the illusion of racial superiority etc. I only decided to post because I was annoyed at the unprecise language that was just being repeated over and over again without much contextual thinking going on. I will agree; it is absolutely stunning and thoroughly disappointing. If there is anything I try to do as a human being, it is being aware of that which I do to violate or not facilitate the feelings, thoughts, and emotions of other people. Apparently that's not a priority to a lot of people.

What I mean by become another person is to put yourselves in the shoes of spaniards, and how it is so easy to do such things and not feel guilty for it. You know, detectives put themselves in the mind of criminals all the time.

I am really confident about all that...SO STEP TO ME AND GET WRECKED MOTHERFUCKERS. Just kidding, I was just trying to clarify because I don't think you got all of it the first time. :)

Want another example of this SAME clueslessness? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hInLo10I72w

That is more offensive to me, personally.

dubman
08-21-2008, 07:19 PM
wait are we talking about spain or the internet.

just kidding, though i do agree with isili to a startling extent. everything about this is hilariously awkward because it's just so damn clueless. and the fall-out is complete confusion on their end. it's like they're not sure if they're being picked on by the media for some reason they dont know so they just pout about it, convinced it's not what people say it is.

Sean
08-22-2008, 11:39 AM
What I'm trying to say is...I do understand what you're saying and agree overall. I'm basically just adding my own personal opinion that I find this level of ignorance to be inexcusable in today's global society.

I think the only idea I would slightly challenge in what you wrote is that, multiple times, I've seen Spanish people get extremely offended here in the States if someone mistook them for Mexican, and they've done it in an alarmingly superior way ("alarming" because one of them is a friend of mine, and I didn't expect it :(). So I'm not certain that it's quite as motivated by innocent ignorance as you were saying, but it is clearly rooted in ignorance.

Honestly, I'm still hoping Sanblaster will follow up with his thoughts so that I can get a little more understanding from someone who might have more direct knowledge about the attitudes behind this.

dubman
08-22-2008, 11:50 AM
yeah san wtf get back in here

Troy McClure
08-23-2008, 02:03 AM
Cluelessness and doing something without thinking isn't only a Spaniard thing right now. The picture below is ESPN.com's front page headline for USA beating Argentina in the semi-finals. The headline was there until Friday, 4PM EDT. A bad choice of words to say the least. -Jason

http://deadspin.com/assets/images/deadspin/2008/08/ChinkESPN.jpg

The picture came from a poster via my favorite sports-blogging website, Deadspin. www.deadspin.com (http://www.deadspin.com/)

IsiliRunite
08-23-2008, 03:08 AM
Cluelessness and doing something without thinking isn't only a Spaniard thing right now. The picture below is ESPN.com's front page headline for USA beating Argentina in the semi-finals. The headline was there until Friday, 4PM EDT. A bad choice of words to say the least. -Jason

Rofl I JUST thought of someone adding a picture of Yao Ming and to that and posting that picture as a joke. Poor choice of words, lol

I wasn't trying to rip on you Sean, by any means, I just reread what I had said and realized it was too general for me to put my name on it and thought your post had just possibly been made in reference to that generality.

Sean
08-23-2008, 09:42 AM
I wasn't trying to rip on you Sean, by any means, I just reread what I had said and realized it was too general for me to put my name on it and thought your post had just possibly been made in reference to that generality.No worries...I didn't take it as you ripping on me. :)

Rog
08-26-2008, 03:06 AM
I think the mitigating circumstances - as pointed out by Ian and Rog above, show a very bizarre lack of understanding/empathy about the world in general. I don't think these actions represent every Spaniard - but I find it interesting that instead of refuting or even claiming responsibility - the powers that be in this case seem mainly to be attacking the critics..

the spanish authorities response is typical of how they deal with these issues.......as i said before they could be construed by some as a bunch of racist bastards.....which in fact a lot of them are........;)