just the little clowny boy singing live, so what are the other two guys doing really?

[stimpee]

(discovered by lloyd) from: http://www.mercuryserver.com/forums/showthread.php?p=527986

Re: Underworld in NYC 09-14-2007 report
Thansk for the review mate, but I have a question intriguining me , I ve seen underworld two years ago in Zurich and the show was unbelivable , BUT why the hype about their shows, they dont mix songs in tooo each other , its just the little clowny boy singing live, so what are the other two guys doing really?

---

he's a waste of time that clowny boy. and those other two guys were just plain lazy in central park. they didnt do anything. i dont get the hype. very intriguining.

[potatobroth]

I can't be sure of this, but I have my suspicions that during Rowla both Rick and Darren pressed one button each, then headed over to the Beer Ticket line. I heard they got back on stage just in time as the lines were long and the song was about to end. Little Clowny Boy was holding their spots on the actual Beer line. Talk about a close one!

[big screen satellite]

its just press and play isn't it?

i suspect clown boy mimes as well....

turn up mime for two hours take cash and count it in the 5* suite afterwards...

next stop - Eurovision...

[BrotherLovesDub]

the second night in SF, Rick used his left ring finger to trigger all the beats and clown boy just lipsynced all the words!

are the rumors of Britney opening the UK dates true??????

[Abo@DJB]

..... are the rumors of Britney opening the UK dates true??????
Well ... not complete true ...

She's also going to perform a strip-act on "Cowgirl"

[potatobroth]

I don't see why Underworld bothers to use that big screen. The images are moving so fast that I can't even tell whats on them. Like on Pearl's Girl, it was going so fast I couldn't even read it.

[dubman]

all those boards they pretend to play is really just a clever disguise for ricks hidden and shameful secret: he loves macaroni and cheese.

it's actually really elaborate. they hire a whole panel of set designers to intricately mimic the knobs and things of Nord Leads, 909s, Korgs and the rest of their vast array of "instruments", and they painstakingly construct a paper mache facsimile so that rick can secretly duck his hands underneath and let his long alien fingers muck around in mac and cheese for 2 hours.

it's gotten so bad that poor darren price was hired purely because rick, getting old and cranky, wanted to stop pushing the single play button altogether, and even briefly considered setting up a mic so that the audience could hear him "jam" with the stickly wet sounds of his fingers swimming in mac and cheese. "what?" he asked, "i love it, and they're fans right? it's only honest, and i'll enjoy myself a lot more instead of hearing this silly thumpity-bump stuffs." fellow bandmate karl almost relented, until the tour crew flatly refused to accept that a bulk of their load would come from the weight of ceramic bowls and boxes of dried noodles.
darren doesnt even know what he's doing up there, just random shuffling about while trying to hide his embarassment at ricks obviously fetishistic enjoyment of his many bowls of cheesy noodles.
those thumbs up at the end of each show? look closely. i have. even though he tricked to lick it all off, those spaces on each end of the fingernails are packed with gooey cheese. i told fellow concert-goer dc_04 to get some video of THAT but he called me a faggot and tried to sic security on me for telling him i was 21 so he could buy me a drink.

[stimpee]

This is by the way on the John Digweed forums it seems, a man who makes a living by playing other people's records whilst bearing the weight of a large helmet of hair. Sometimes people die of boredom.

[Jason Roth]

She's also going to perform a strip-act on "Cowgirl"

NICE!!!!!!

[TomTom]

(discovered by lloyd) from: http://www.mercuryserver.com/forums/showthread.php?p=527986

Re: Underworld in NYC 09-14-2007 report
Thansk for the review mate, but I have a question intriguining me , I ve seen underworld two years ago in Zurich and the show was unbelivable , BUT why the hype about their shows, they dont mix songs in tooo each other , its just the little clowny boy singing live, so what are the other two guys doing really?

---

he's a waste of time that clowny boy. and those other two guys were just plain lazy in central park. they didnt do anything. i dont get the hype. very intriguining.

The quoted message board is run and owned from my mate Kamal and myself. I hope it is not on the hate list here now. :D I saw this post as well today and thought it is disrespectful but so are many hasty written careless posts. If your heart does not beat for something and you have no clue what acts like Underworld or other bands do when they play live you ask such questions I guess. But ignorance is everywhere and thinking a DJ makes it to the top because he can push a few buttons is as clueless as asking why Underworld are not mixing the tracks into each other during a live show at least.

[gillenium]

Well ... not complete through ...

She's also going to perform a strip-act on "Cowgirl"

Yeah, she's a cow alright.

[Jason Roth]

Yeah, she's a cow alright.

So she's a little big. I have no problem with that.

[stimpee]

The quoted message board is run and owned from my mate Kamal and myself. I hope it is not on the hate list here now. :D I saw this post as well today and thought it is disrespectful but so are many hasty written careless posts. If your heart does not beat for something and you have no clue what acts like Underworld or other bands do when they play live you ask such questions I guess. But ignorance is everywhere and thinking a DJ makes it to the top because he can push a few buttons is as clueless as asking why Underworld are not mixing the tracks into each other during a live show at least.nice one TomTom. We dont take this seriously as you can probably guess. We know Underworld are just great live and it would take more detailed baiting than this to get us going :) Otherwise we would actually be arguing the point rather than taking the piss! Underworld dont need to "mix" their songs. They actually often do segue songs into each other or use bridging tracks, but as each track is using "live" sequencing its quite complex. Certainly more complex than mixing two records together. As for clownyboy Karl, well he provides us with some stream of words and does his thing. We wouldnt have it any other way.

As for Digweed I saw him right after Underworld on Friday night. He played all night and to be honest was boring for the first 3 hours before really kicking off and melting the place. Why he waited so long I dont know...

[Butcher of Bakersfield]

Well ... not complete true ...

She's also going to perform a strip-act on "Cowgirl"

immediately afterward at which point she gained back all her street cred.

i actually dug the "I'm board with this whole thing, cause its shit, and this song is trash" attitude. thanks Brit for showing us that you're not as dumb as we've been lead to believe.

[TheBang]

just the little clowny boy singing live
As others have pointed out this weekend, he really looked more like a muppet.

[TomTom]

nice one TomTom. We dont take this seriously as you can probably guess. We know Underworld are just great live and it would take more detailed baiting than this to get us going :) Otherwise we would actually be arguing the point rather than taking the piss! Underworld dont need to "mix" their songs.

Thanks, stimpee. Good to know..I was already worried because opinions are made fast in the Internet without knowing people for real. I know die hard fans can be easily pissed off if somebody acts disrespectful about their most favourite artists and I am glad to see that this board is almost drama free and most things are handled with a good sense of humor..not a given these days and that's why I also like it here though I have to admit that I am more reading than posting.

[big screen satellite]

this board is almost drama free and most things are handled with a good sense of humor..

oh how we wish that were true... lol

check the current OWB t-shirt thread!!!

as for the post it was funny, considering the guy had seen them live too...

why the hype about any band live... what does Keith Richrads do for example... and he's been doing the same shit with that Jagger Clown boy for like 40 years....

its horses for courses and that post, although not scathing, was funnier for its 'clowny' boy reference than anything else...

[dubman]

oh matt
dont be so butthurt about the OWB thread.
you were just wrong ;)

[Liam]

I dunno, I think the guy's got a point. Why don't they mix their tracks? They certainly used to. Recordings from before 1998 are straight out seamless jams beginning to end; layer upon layer or rhythm, melody, bass and improvisation. Now they just play their tracks and it basically does sound as if they were taken off the the album. I know that they do sequence it live, but they don't do nearly as much with it as they used to. Underworld are still a great live band, but they used to be so much more.

[BrotherLovesDub]

the tracks were mostly mixed together in SF and Denver. i'd say they only stopped and started for about 4 songs.

i completely disagree that the versions sound like LP versions. that was certainly true in 2002 but not so anymore.

compared to assbandits the Chemical Brothers, who basically press play on their CD then mug and ham it up for the crowd, UW created quite diff. versions each night. i saw 3 shows and each show was different. each song that i heard 3 times was different enough each night for me to pick out some unique moments.

[mmm skyscraper]

I wish the album version of Twist was like the live version.

[kagenaki koe]

i completely disagree that the versions sound like LP versions. that was certainly true in 2002 but not so anymore.

i especially like the updated version of Dirty Epic:D

[BrotherLovesDub]

for example Dirty Epic in Denver had a 2-3 minute jam on the end of it that wasn't played in SF.

[big screen satellite]

I dunno, I think the guy's got a point. Why don't they mix their tracks? They certainly used to. Recordings from before 1998 are straight out seamless jams beginning to end; layer upon layer or rhythm, melody, bass and improvisation. Now they just play their tracks and it basically does sound as if they were taken off the the album. I know that they do sequence it live, but they don't do nearly as much with it as they used to. Underworld are still a great live band, but they used to be so much more.

ahh that'll be emerson.... :p

shame i miss him

[joethelion]

god...

you know... you're right, when I saw UW back in '02... and they played "Mo Move" with 'mmm skyscraper' lyrics, extended the intro, and added a lot more percussion -> that sounded just like the album version

and then, at that same gig, when they added more acid tweaks to Moaner or when I saw them at the Ultra Music Festical and they played "Twist" but without the piano coming in until halfway through the track... exactly the same as on the album

and the way that they added significant dubby effects and oomph to the bass at the Ultra Fest that year... made it sound just like on the album

oh and then this year - when I saw UW at the Hollywood Bowl and we couldn't tell if we were hearing a new track, an improv, or an older song... it was totally like just seeing a 'greatest hits' tour where they stop between each of the tracks and announce "you might remember this one back from 1995!"

oh... and yea - the two completely different performances of Cowgirl/Rez and Rez/Cowgirl (between LA & NYC this year) sounded just as if Rick pushed 'play' on his cd player

now... Oakenfold's 45minutes of hammering the same beat over and over and over and over and over, save for a ten minute period where he had a violinist, tabla player, saxaphone and guitarist come out, and basically sit nicely and stare at the audience... that was great!

[gillenium]

compared to assbandits the Chemical Brothers, who basically press play on their CD then mug and ham it up for the crowd.

Seeing the assbandits live this weekend! Can't wait! Hope they don't steal too many asses during the show.

[potatobroth]

god...

you know... you're right, when I saw UW back in '02... and they played "Mo Move" with 'mmm skyscraper' lyrics, extended the intro, and added a lot more percussion -> that sounded just like the album version

and then, at that same gig, when they added more acid tweaks to Moaner or when I saw them at the Ultra Music Festical and they played "Twist" but without the piano coming in until halfway through the track... exactly the same as on the album

and the way that they added significant dubby effects and oomph to the bass at the Ultra Fest that year... made it sound just like on the album

oh and then this year - when I saw UW at the Hollywood Bowl and we couldn't tell if we were hearing a new track, an improv, or an older song... it was totally like just seeing a 'greatest hits' tour where they stop between each of the tracks and announce "you might remember this one back from 1995!"

oh... and yea - the two completely different performances of Cowgirl/Rez and Rez/Cowgirl (between LA & NYC this year) sounded just as if Rick pushed 'play' on his cd player

now... Oakenfold's 45minutes of hammering the same beat over and over and over and over and over, save for a ten minute period where he had a violinist, tabla player, saxaphone and guitarist come out, and basically sit nicely and stare at the audience... that was great!

agree. Underworld is boring. where can i score some Oak tix?

[polar_action]

ok, so i just read this thread and got a bit excited at the thought of Britney doing a strip to Cowgirl.....

Is something wrong with me or is that a valid feeling?



uw : that's an idea for any new video!!!! forget pacing around romford... get britney to strip in an underpass.... ok, im off back into my own thoughtssssssss

[Jason Roth]

ok, so i just read this thread and got a bit excited at the thought of Britney doing a strip to Cowgirl.....

Is something wrong with me or is that a valid feeling?

Totally valid, bro.

[stimpee]

ok, so i just read this thread and got a bit excited at the thought of Britney doing a strip to Cowgirl.....

Is something wrong with me or is that a valid feeling?totally valid. let me know if you find it on youtube.

[joethelion]

...except for the fact that Britney is actually kinda ugly

[potatobroth]

valid

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

Souless Fuckwits, the lot of yah.

[BeautifulBurnout]

Glad the people round here have better taste in music than they do in women ;)

http://www.funmansion.com/html/Britney-Spears-Good-Bad-and-Ugly.html

[dubman]

there was never any good. britney has been hideous and repulsive ever since she got up in that school girl outfit and tried to bait the secret pedos with her retarded pigtail braids.

[Liam]

Ah, I guess that a (somewhat late) explanation is due. Forgive me if I sounded snobbish in my last post. That was the day after my house was burgled -- laptop with over 30 gigs of music (including all my Underworld), DJ equipment, camera all gone. You can imagine that I wasn't in the best of spirits.

But allow me to explain a little more clearly what I mean. I don't actually want to convince anyone, as I would hate to spoil the great reactions people have been having to the recent shows (I mean that). I just want to explain myself a little more fully.

The few dozen bootlegs that exist of Underworld concerts from before 1998 are, with no exaggeration, the best music I have ever heard. On stage, Underworld achieved heights that have never elsewhere been realized in electronic music. Go and listen to the European Club gig from 1996, Red Box in Dublin from 1998, Leicester University from 1994 or I Love Techno from 1998. These concerts are as complex and detailed as symphonies. They have upwards of 20 loops flowing through the mixing desk at any one time: rhythm upon intricate rhythm that utterly defy the four-on-the-floor convention that defines pretty much every other techno act ever, melodies and sounds that were never put to album. (Often I listen to a concert that I have heard literally hundreds of times before and find rhythms that I have never heard before). And the music flows. There is hardly a period of two bars that goes by without a change – drums added or subtracted, fills, crescendos, lyrics, voices, etc, creating seamless rivers of improvised energy. Sometimes there are 10 minute spells between tracks of just drums and improvisation, but the music is no less enthralling than the tracks themselves (indeed, most of my favorite moments occur between tracks).

It’s this type of thing that I don’t hear in Underworld Live anymore. There are usually only two or three drum loops going on at once, most of which we knew from the album, and there isn’t the same flow from track to track. I admit that it’s not true to say that their material just sounds like it does on the albums, but nevertheless the focus is just on their songs, and I am left yearning for the depth and spontaneity of their older material that I love so much.

I am happy that people disagree with me and have enjoyed the US shows, because it means that it’s obviously just a matter of taste and hopefully I can get into it more. They’re still my favorite band of all time and a great live act, but when I feel disappointed when I remember how their live material used to sound.

[Buji]

I have seen Underworld a few times and for me it wasnt the mixing or technical ability that made me love em, it was the atmosphere and vibe they create live. They have a great sense of when to drop the beat at exactly the right place, which lets face it, thats what gets everyone goin.
I think it's a testament to them that they are one of the only Experimental/Electronica artists that can play main stages at festivals and proper band venues rather than just night clubs, they cross over to the mainstream without losing or compromising their love for new sounds and I applaud them for that, long may it continue.

Cheers,
Jez.

www.myspace.com/buji

[galama]

DIscoball boy, the one spreading hands, swaying and jumping and lipsinging! He was a stunt double...there was a freckle on his left cheek. The real one was spectating from one of the buildings overlooking the park.

[geoff]

I'm just getting around to listening to a bunch of the 2005 gigs. (Seeing UW in person inspired me to play a little game of catch-up...)

Anyway, my point is - the amount of mixing and improvisation is astounding.

Now playing: Something that sounds like Spikee/Pearls Girl/Cowgirl (Electraglide 2005) :)

So, I don't think they've lost their live "touch", even a little bit...

[potatobroth]

with more albums comes more responsibility to play well known tracks. its either that or extend the show by 2 hours.

back pre-BF, the boys had a decent amount of deep cuts they could play to fill up the show. now that they have 5+ its getting harder to slip those little gems like Confusion, Twist, Air Towel etc into to the show. Just recently they've been dropping Moaner and there is already a longing for it. Imagine if they dropped: TMO, BS, KoS, Cowgirl/Rez from their show. It would be great for the super fan who has every live show downloaded anyway, but it would suck for the average fan who sees them live once or twice.

i think this most recent tour is the closest its been to the 1997-99 days (the BF pre and prior tour.) Generous improvs, fan faves mixed in with some new stuff is the way to go. I think the days of 5 Dubno tracks are done unless the show hits the 3-4 hour mark (ala Electraglide) and that's asking way too much.

Although it does open the door for the radio show now doesn't it?

For the record, I'd love to hear the "gets much better" version of Confusion :).

[Ufotofu]

with more albums comes more responsibility to play well known tracks. its either that or extend the show by 2 hours.

back pre-BF, the boys had a decent amount of deep cuts they could play to fill up the show. now that they have 5+ its getting harder to slip those little gems like Confusion, Twist, Air Towel etc into to the show. Just recently they've been dropping Moaner and there is already a longing for it. Imagine if they dropped: TMO, BS, KoS, Cowgirl/Rez from their show. It would be great for the super fan who has every live show downloaded anyway, but it would suck for the average fan who sees them live once or twice.


An acute observation...where are the 14 hour gigs when you need them? :D

[GDK]

I completely agree with this post. The one clowny guy was just dancing and screwing around on stage while the other two were just playing with the soundboard.
[/sarcasm]

[dubman]

all this talk has me going in and consolidating all the bootlegs i have scatered everywhere and backing them up on my hueg external drive, so that means also a lot of listening (and dancing crazy around the house, i think i found a new exercise routine.), and while the set lists and style are totally different than, say, the tramway or EFG, i'd venture to say the energy level is still right up there, it's just a matter of preference for the frantic, sped up techno of old vs. the monstrously banging of now. Tramway's 'Skyscraper' with spoonman lyrics, or Creamfields' absolutely punishing run of 'KOS'? and as potatobroth pointed out, they have a significant number of hits they feel they shouldnt cheat the casual fan out of, making 17 minute versions of confusion the waitress kind of out. it also seems like past improvisations are just as "improvised" as those of today, there's just a shorter time for them. given time, they pull stuff out like the cocoon gig, which was massive.

yeah, we need a 14 hr gig. before karl is actually physically incapable of them ;)

side note: i could have sworn i had this gig but couldnt find it anywhere, its the one with rez that has the ludicrously slow build up, also has the kid going "PHUUUUTURE" introducing it before the sound pops in an completely satisfying way. someone refresh my memory on it please?

[potatobroth]

side note: i could have sworn i had this gig but couldnt find it anywhere, its the one with rez that has the ludicrously slow build up, also has the kid going "PHUUUUTURE" introducing it before the sound pops in an completely satisfying way. someone refresh my memory on it please?

Isnt that Reepherbahn? Could be wrong though, its been a LONG while since I've delved that deep.

[TheBang]

That's Reading Festival 1996. It's also the last track on Bootleg Babies.

They also did the slow Rez build-up on another 1996 gig that was broadcast on radio and recorded. I forget which one exactly. It might have been Paleo Festival.

Edit: Yeah, it was Paleo. The one you're describing, though, was Reading.

[dubman]

That's Reading Festival 1996. It's also the last track on Bootleg Babies.

They also did the slow Rez build-up on another 1996 gig that was broadcast on radio and recorded. I forget which one exactly. It might have been Paleo Festival.

Edit: Yeah, it was Paleo. The one you're describing, though, was Reading.
*facepalm* of course
i dig through all of them one by one and i neglect bootleg babies.
thanks once again :D

edit: you think if we get a decent recording of this tour we could do another BB? or is that another 5 years away

[holden]

edit: you think if we get a decent recording of this tour we could do another BB? or is that another 5 years away

You know, when a new BB was suggested after the AHDO tour, it seemed like a bad idea, since basically only TMO, DA3D, Twist, and rarely Luetin or Momove wa added to the setlist. But now we have recordings from 05-07 with stuff from RiverRuns, lots of new improvs/unreleased tracks/Darren Price interludes, and of course the new album! Perhaps a new fan compilation is due!

holden

p.s. several high quality recordings from 05-06 exist. As for this tour, the NYC show is pretty decent (B+ to my ears), and the Holly wood Bowl, though very quiet, sounds great...boost the volume and it's delightful. I'm sure future shows that may be recorded will also benefit from new tunes.

[joethelion]

well - bootleg babies only went up to the point where Darren left (if memory serves me)

so... we probably could do another BB shortly, as long as we get like a couple more high quality recordings

b/c you'd have like - the tour that they did to promote EE, AHDO, then like - the Ultra Music Festival (and those random gigs around that time), the EU/Japan shows f/ around the RiverRun releases, and the current tour

[dubman]

right and whereas before it covered 1994-1999 (5 years) this one would cover 2000-2007 (7 years). and whereas before it was working off of dubno through BF, this would be doing the EE tour, AHDO, riverruns, and this upcoming album.
and we would still have a decent excuse to include born slippy because it's the 2003 version (other than that it might be exciting to eschew the hits a bit more)

[the real stuff]

might I suggest the title "Bootleg Babies 2: Electric Boogaloo"? ;)

[geoff]

Hmm... time for Bootleg Babies Disc 3? Disc 4? :)

Don't forget there may be a few gems from pre-AHDO that were never included in BB... (Pearl's Girl for example - we just couldn't find a recording that was up to the same quality as the rest of those tracks...)

So you could get a nice mixture of old and new.

[dubman]

geoff!
listened to BB again on massive home theatre today, danced myself silly. thanks for mixing it as brilliantly and as energetically as you did!
if were talking about revisiting stuff, we could put cowgirl from the new and improved werchter set maybe? i dont think i've ever heard a finale so explosive. pearl's girl from creamfields 2002 might work too. nice and very f'n loud.

[stimpee]

Bootleg Babies 2 has been discussed many times, especially on RTSR the home of Underworld bootleg recordings. Maybe some serious discussion can be started after the current tour has finished in Korea and Japan.

[dubman]

Bootleg Babies 2 has been discussed many times, especially on RTSR the home of Underworld bootleg recordings.

okay okay hint taken ;)

it's just that every time i start posting there i feel bad when i stop.

[geoff]

geoff!
listened to BB again on massive home theatre today, danced myself silly. thanks for mixing it as brilliantly and as energetically as you did!

My pleasure! As I told TheBang, looking back, I could do a much better job mixing it now... But at the end of the day, it's the quality UW tracks that people enjoy, not my meager skills. :) Check out RTSR Power On for a better display...!

[holden]

My pleasure! As I told TheBang, looking back, I could do a much better job mixing it now... But at the end of the day, it's the quality UW tracks that people enjoy, not my meager skills. :) Check out RTSR Power On for a better display...!

Slightly off topic, but geoff, i still enjoy hearing both BB and RTSR Power-On. You did a great job with each, and Power On is all the more impressive in that there are a lot of different artists/styles to blend.

Cheers,
Holden

p.s. this whole thread makes me grin. At NYC, there were several shots of the mixing board projected on the big screen, and when Darren played his interlude tracks, he moved over to the laptop aside the board. Rick also did some smoking. So yeah, there was lots of evidence of activity!

[negative1]

seriously,

after this tour is over..we need talk ...
no, i don't have internet access from home (yet)..

but i do have a new computer (!) finally,
and have done some serious sifting out of
the underworld bootlegs.

in fact i'm just catching up on the last few
years of gigs/radio shows/webcasts etc..

there is definitely enough material out there,
and i'm sure there will be more..

ok..back to the thread...

later
-1

[dubman]

but i do have a new computer (!) finally,
and have done some serious sifting out of
the underworld bootlegs.

-1

huh. guess it's the right time of year something and not just me ;)

yeah, lets wait till the tour is over and get into it proper. ideas percolating.

[m.g.]

The mention about the "Little Clowny Boy" in today's uwlive diary is quite funny...

[geoff]

Haha, that made my day. Hey Karl... "Little Clowny Boy"... title for a new UW track maybe? :)

[negative1]

with more albums comes more responsibility to play well known tracks. its either that or extend the show by 2 hours.

back pre-BF, the boys had a decent amount of deep cuts they could play to fill up the show. now that they have 5+ its getting harder to slip those little gems like Confusion, Twist, Air Towel etc into to the show. Just recently they've been dropping Moaner and there is already a longing for it. Imagine if they dropped: TMO, BS, KoS, Cowgirl/Rez from their show. It would be great for the super fan who has every live show downloaded anyway, but it would suck for the average fan who sees them live once or twice.

i think this most recent tour is the closest its been to the 1997-99 days (the BF pre and prior tour.) Generous improvs, fan faves mixed in with some new stuff is the way to go. I think the days of 5 Dubno tracks are done unless the show hits the 3-4 hour mark (ala Electraglide) and that's asking way too much.

Although it does open the door for the radio show now doesn't it?

For the record, I'd love to hear the "gets much better" version of Confusion :).

i disagree, that the current tour resembles the early ones, maybe the
2000-2003 era did...with the riverrun tracks etc..

i think they are definitely playing more on the conservative
side....although their stage presence, presentation, and
external effects have vastly changed since the early
projections...

i've been spoiled by listening to the earlier, more experimental,
and improvisational gigs (agree with liam on this one)....so hearing them live isn't exactly
what it used to be...

later
-1