Underworld wiki

[stimpee]

Time for a t-shirt photo archive maybe?

EDIT: this thread was split from the t-shirts on ebay thread.

[Jan]

Time for a t-shirt photo archive maybe?
That's another thing an underworld wiki would be great for!

[the real stuff]

Weren't we gonna set one in motion a while back? I'm all for having an UW fan wiki.

[stimpee]

i was thinking more of an open flickr account...

[the real stuff]

sure, that would suit something like this, but don't you think we could use a wiki around here?

[stimpee]

Without doubt! modelling it on the Depeche Mode wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depeche_Mode_discography) would be no bad thing as that one is very well organised. However, I have no experience of this and the nice warm weather and world cup football is very distracting... ;)

[Dirty0900]

Matt has the discography sorted;)

[stimpee]

Matt has the discography sorted;)By matt's own admission his pages need radically updating. Anyway, I've had a go at adding a page to the existing Underworld page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underworld_(band)) at the wiki, and I've added a page for Spikee / Dogman Go Woof (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spikee) because that was the easiest :D

Now the template is there it should be relatively easy to create pages for other singles.

[Lou]

Mark, your shirt is beautiful as well :)
I didn't have any idea so many different ones were made!

Steve, i like hat you did with the Spikee page, but isn't that like re-inventing the wheel?
>>>>http://www.dirty.org/underworld/disco-uw.php
and >>>>>http://www.dirty.org/underworld/articles-uw.php
etc.
Why not build on this?

There have been so many sites around Underworld, trying to make a good discography etc, maybe it is time now to join forces? and make an Underworld encyclopedia/webmuseum based on all info there is available?? We could include the discography, t-shirts, posters, and all other memorabilia ( i am thinking of Lloyd's radio ;) and Matt's collection of tickets etc. )
That is : if every one is willing to co-operate!! We would need quite a few volunteers i guess :)
I know Yannick tried this, and several other fans, and i guess through time some of us have gathered quite a few items :) and it would be fun to join it all. Or would that be undo-able?

[stimpee]

well excuse me for reinventing the wheel. but, having a wiki means everyone can edit it.

[big screen satellite]

There have been so many sites around Underworld, trying to make a good discography etc, maybe it is time now to join forces? and make an Underworld encyclopedia/webmuseum based on all info there is available?? We could include the discography, t-shirts, posters, and all other memorabilia ( i am thinking of Lloyd's radio ;) and Matt's collection of tickets etc. )
That is : if every one is willing to co-operate!! We would need quite a few volunteers i guess :)
I know Yannick tried this, and several other fans, and i guess through time some of us have gathered quite a few items :) and it would be fun to join it all. Or would that be undo-able?

I like Lou's idea behind this...

the only trouble is and reason why i have not done any updating is 'time' - my discography on my own website is pretty comprehensive but i must have 50% more things i could and should have updated by now, but its time to do it...

even working on it, at say a track a day it would take me two months solid to just re-do, thats not counting time out to take pictures and then upload them, and thats just the music side of things, i have so many other bits and pieces now in my collection, apprael, letters, adverts, posters, mag clippings etc,. that its hard to keep track of them let alone spend time putting them on a website

and that i think is the problem everyone has, time to do it, i know Yan's been working on the Dirty site, but thats taking its time and i for one have a proper job to do

i'd be more than willing to help update something, if an easy solution was agreed on, and i really want to update my site, which i am gonna look at again (after the world cup), so keep your eyes peeled at least on my site...

in the meantime if you want to know anything give me a shout ;)

Matt

[stimpee]

I've updated the Spikee page with help from Raz and Mattval/BSS.

[big screen satellite]

I've updated the Spikee page with help from Raz and Mattval/BSS.

yeah we've (Stimpee) made it nice and uniform in its set up, and all of the (discography) pages should look like this i think...

the trouble is i've looked at the main Underworld front page, and that needs a nice overhaul too... its a bit 'messy'

but tiny steps first i suppose....

anyway the updated Spikee version is here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spikee (i know its on the front page, but people are lazy buggers)

[Jan]

An Underworld Wiki would be trivial for me to setup so if you guys want one just ask. :)
Could we have an official dirty.org/wiki, please? If you have the time to do it, of course! :)
another thing that argues for our own wiki is that wikipedia does not allow high resolution pics/scans. :(

[big screen satellite]

Could we have an official dirty.org/wiki, please? If you have the time to do it, of course! :)
another thing that argues for our own wiki is that wikipedia does not allow high resolution pics/scans. :(


i dunno - thats not bad:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:UW_spikee_disc.jpg

[BeautifulBurnout]

This is a good idea cos it means that the burden is not just on one person's shoulders to keep it updated. Good thinking. Although I don't think I have anything much to contribute, not being all that knowledgable about releases and such, I will enjoy reading it.

[Jan]

i dunno - thats not bad:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:UW_spikee_disc.jpg
I mean from a copyright point of view those kind of pics are not wanted by wikipedia. The license is printed just below the scan.

[Lou]

Originally Posted by Scott Warner
An Underworld Wiki would be trivial for me to setup so if you guys want one just ask. :)


yes, can we have a wiki here please :)
from which thread comes this line from Scott btw?

[stimpee]

Lou: it was fromthis thread (http://www.dirty.org/forums/showpost.php?p=31314&postcount=4). I think Scott is talking about setting the building blocks not the content.

Jan: I know about the copyright with the pictures but there are many thousands of similar images on there and it was me who scanned and uploaded and chose the correct copyright license. They do allow high res images but prefer low-res as they say they fall under Fair Use.

[Malt Refund]

Weird picture on the Underworld wiki article. Should be a picture of the band instead of that weird Freur logo.

[big screen satellite]

Weird picture on the Underworld wiki article. Should be a picture of the band instead of that weird Freur logo.

yeah the whole uw wiki needs sorting out...that may well happen if we get it sorted...

[stimpee]

Whether there is an official UW wiki somewhere or not, there will be an entry on the main wikipedia site so it needs to be cleaned up.

[Lou]

thanks Stimp, i remember that thread now :)
It would be cool if Scott could put the building blocks here!

[stimpee]

thanks Stimp, i remember that thread now :)
It would be cool if Scott could put the building blocks here!
meanwhile, if anyone wants to have a go at adding new pages to the wikipedia then please go ahead. use the template i have made for spikee. i recommend starting off with the easy ones like The Hump/Mother Earth. Anyone with even a basic understanding of tagging can understand the wiki's formatting tags (if you can handle the vbulletin i reckon you can have a go!).

If an Underworld wiki is started here at dirty.org then everything can be just copy+pasted over so nothing is lost.

[the real stuff]

I did my best to create a Dark & Long (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_%26_Long) page, and I'm not sure if I should seperate it into Dark & Long (single) and Dark & Long (EP) or what. The page also currently doesn't include the 1999 re-release (vinyl and CD) and needs cover art.

[negative1]

is this for real?
i've never seen it..

CD: Junior Boy's Own / JBO 19CDS (UK)


"Dark & Long" – 10:28
"Dark & Long (Burts)" – 8:47
"Dark & Long (Spoon Deep Mix)" – 17:53
"Dark & Long (Thing in a Book Mix)" – 20:12also, the april records version is not from Germany.

later
-1

[the real stuff]

I grabbed that from Mattval1's site (http://www.bigscreensatellite.co.uk/darknlong.htm), and it's also listed on dirty.org's discography (http://www.dirty.org/underworld/disco-uw-single.php).

The April Records CD is listed as a Germany release on dirty.org; where is it really from?

[negative1]

most of the times, the april records cd is
listed as denmark (at least on lazlos' site),

http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?freur

search for 'dark & long'

later
-1

[big screen satellite]

as much as Lazlo was the 'don' for original discog sites, there are many errors in his site and it is fairly unreliable now, as it is so out of date... This was one of the reasons why i did my own site, which, i also admit needs some updates, but i'm still around and can clarify any queries personally, something with Lazlo can't do...so if you need any info on releases let me know as i have most here in my hands ;)

anyway - that JBO CD 19 does exist as i have it here in front of me...but the tracklisting i wrong, as it is wrong on my site, the tracklisting is as for JBO 5010273 which does exist and is a reprint of JBO 19

as for the April Records release, my version is certainly Scandinavian, as April is a division of pingo records in Denmark, and on the sleeve states it was distributed in Finland, Sweden and Norway, with no mention of Germany.

Intercord on the other hand is a german based company who did the vinyl releases abroad...


anyway i'll add some updates to the D&L page on wiki today, its looking good already...

Matt

[big screen satellite]

i've made a few updates, and amendments...where possible - all are accurate based upon the labels / sleeves of items i have here...

i wasn't too sure whether to change the details on the discography bit because on the CD and sleeves themselevs, it just says 'Dark Train', for example, as opposed to Dark & Long (Dark Train Mix)...

So i changed the April Records CD to show how it reads on the sleeve and disc, but left the UK ones...foe example its just Hall's Edit, Dark Train, etc...

the Vinyl, however, for some reasons lists the tracks in full, for example Dark & Long (spoon deep mix), so i obviously left these....

anyway the update is here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_%26_Long

feel free to make anymore amendments and add some pics....

Matt

[negative1]

of course matt,
i'm not saying that lazlo is the end all be all.
i use a variety of sources (especially yours).

i just wanted to point out that one single
had a weird tracklisting...

anyways, i'll try to add some information
when i have a chance also..(i dont know
if you want add in the promos also, i'm
pretty sure theres quite a lot of those
for each single also, including this one)

later
-1

[negative1]

one other thing..

'dark and long(dark train mix)'
was on the re-release of the
us 'born slippy' cd-single and 3x12"

12"x3: 1996 US (WaxTrax!/TVT; 8731-0) [tracks unconfirmed]
11:37 Born Slippy.NUXX (extended)
9:59 Born Slippy.NUXX (deep pan)
6:31 Born Slippy.NUXX (darren price mix)
8:11 Born Slippy.NUXX (darren price remix)
10:24 Dark Train ["Dark & Long (dark train)"]
5:38 Banstyle (alex reece mix)

CD5: 1996 US (WaxTrax!/TVT; 8745-2)
11:37 Born Slippy.NUXX (extended)
9:59 Born Slippy.NUXX (deep pan)
6:31 Born Slippy.NUXX (darren price mix)
8:11 Born Slippy.NUXX (darren price remix)
4:23 Born Slippy.NUXX (short)
10:24 Dark Train ["Dark & Long (dark train)"]
5:38 Banstyle (alex reece mix)

later
-1

[big screen satellite]

of course matt,
i'm not saying that lazlo is the end all be all.
i use a variety of sources (especially yours).


no probs ;)

i wasn't even aware that my listing for JBO19CD was wrong tbh, i must have done that part of the Discog before I actually acquired the CD single...and Lazlo's site is still a valid source, but its just a bit old and hasn't seen an update for years...and just wanted to make this clear...

anyhow, i'm not sure about listing promo's or not, and i don't think that there are any relevant for this single...(that i know of??)

i certainly don't think that its worth listing bootlegs, of which i have loads for Dark & Long

The Dark & Long (Dark Train) appearance on BS should be added to the Appearances section, as it will undoubtably be on the actual BS page, when someone tries to take that one on...

but feel free to add anything, the more info is better i feel...

Matt

[stimpee]

Nice work there both of you. I don't think that D&L had a weird tracklisting at all. 2x 12" and a CD. Then an import CD with some tracks from the 12"s. The German issues on CD and 12" just mirror the UK ones anyway. I think this was a good choice for the next item to do. Its slightly more complex than Spikee but still reasonably straight-forward.

The fact that Dark Train appears on an issue of Born Slippy shouldnt be mentioned in the main discography but maybe in the Appearances section with a link to the BS page when its done. This page is for Dark & Long as a single as the A-side only.

The layout looks faithful to the Spikee one and it looks neat. If anyone spots any obvious mistakes or spelling then either say so in this thread, and/or fix it on the wiki itself.

Keep it up :) Thanks also to the real stuff for creating the Dirty page also.

[big screen satellite]

i've updated the Dirty page...

check it out here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_%28Underworld_single%29

[the real stuff]

Thanks for fleshing 'em out, Matt. Looks good.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Underworld

I'm in the process of making an Underworld template that can go on every Underworld-related page, and this will make it easier for us to see which articles need work. Right now there's a lot of red (meaning unwritten articles). It looks overwhelming, but the information is already out there -- it's just a matter of organizing it in one place.

Is there anything else we want to put on the template?

Eventually we might consider creating an 'Underworld Discography' page seperate from the main page. And speaking of the main page, it's begging to be re-written. We need to summarize what the band's been up to in the past year.

[negative1]

i added a few changes to the template,
some singles, and the new live album.
later
-1

[negative1]

added 'mother earth/the hump' single,
and a few more scans..

i don't trust wikipedia though,
is there another way to save this
work. because if we put too much
into it, and there's no way to save it...

later
-1

[stimpee]

As said earlier, if Scott sets up the UW wiki (when he returns from NZ) we will move the information across. Its a copy paste job except for the images which will have to be saved and uploaded again. Still a lot of work, but rest assured the Wiki isnt going anywhere soon thats for sure. I look forward to going over all the work and adding more content when I get back to the Netherlands. Its shaping up well!

[negative1]

the problem with wikipedia is
that i'm not really sure it's
used anywhere else (the formatting)..

i don't really use it that often,
and am suspicious of it is a source
(since they dont' claim to be authoritative,
and anyone can add anything they like)

i'd rather have something in a more standard
html/css format...but thats just me..or even
something in a database format (which i started
once, but haven't finished yet).

i don't mind setting up the basic pages,
and if someone wants to expand them,
thats fine too..

later
-1

[the real stuff]

negative1, if you read your talk page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Negative1), I think we should consider merging a few of the pages; i.e., one Cowgirl article that includes the 2000 reissue, one Pearl's Girl article, etc. Even a single .NUXX article can include the number of reissues and the 2003 edition.

Speaking of Born Slippy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Born_Slippy), we should address the confusion that will stem from people thinking Born Slippy == .NUXX

[TheBang]

the problem with wikipedia is
that i'm not really sure it's
used anywhere else (the formatting)..

Wikipedia is based upon Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki) formatting

While there are numerous different Wiki software implementations, they pretty much all share the same syntax, so the content should be pretty portable from one Wiki to another. That is, as Stimpee said, we could just copy/paste the info we're creating in Wikipedia into a Wiki that is set up by Scott here.

The advantage of a Wiki type system is the "open collaborative editing" that allows anyone, with a simple syntax, to make changes or additions to the content, without requiring some type of account or administrative access to the server in order to update pages.

[negative1]

should we move all this boring wiki
talk over there?

i responded over there too.

thanx for the input.

later
-1

[stimpee]

I think the talk should be over here. Casual dirts who are not contributing to directly to the wiki are not going to be visiting a wiki talk page. As for anyone being able to edit it, thats the beauty of it. Raj, if youre worried about vandalism then that can also be taken care of if the UW wiki is created over here. A moderator can give access to people to allow only trusted people to edit the articles if need be. Right now, as it stands we should just get on with making it. Its all we can do.

For individual pages based on releases that have been re-released such as Cowgirl, Born Slippy (.NUXX), and Pearl's Girl then I believe you need the links in chronological order on the main discography page but that you can make them point to the same PG/CG/BS page. On those pages the discography can make it obvious which releases are which and not just give a big list of Born Slippy 12s and CDs. Thats what the formatting is for.

[the real stuff]

The only reason I bring it up is because Wikipedia has standards. I'm afraid of getting yelled at and going through the AfD (Article for Deletion) motions because we have three seperate Born Slippy .NUXX pages. This is because Wikipedia strives to be an encyclopedia, not a discography database.

Obviously we won't face this sort of problem on a dirty.org server-side wiki, where we can do whatever the hell we want. But as far as wikipedia is concerned, well, we already have Confusion the Waitress up for deletion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Confusion_the_Waitress).

[big screen satellite]

one thing i have noticed, and think we should avoid, is listing items with '???' following them

and also the 'unconfirmed' elements...

i believe that we should not post any singles or formats or releases that we have no proof of existence, including the 'Spoonman' promo, which no one has seen, the Cowgirl UK White vinyl etc,. and there are a few more.

We should only be listing stuff on the Wiki that do actually exist and can be verified by the person editing the page.

I know my own website has some areas with speculative releases, but thats not an open source for editing, this is and as such it should contain 'true' release, and not speculation, otherwise we will see more 'releases' up for deletion...

and also we perhaps need to be a little more accurate in our notetaions, rather than speculating where releases came from who has them how they got there, etc. after all we want this to be an accurate encyclopdia - speculation and conjecture should be posted elsewhere...

Mattval1

[negative1]

1 what standards? i've seen plenty of speculative information
on there.

2 i'm not worried about deletions, because you can always
put it back

3 i like matts site where you have an article about something
(like the born slippy phenomenon), that links to the discography

4 once again, if it's not going to be correct and linear, for the
discography, whats the point?

5 feel free to edit out all the unconfirmed stuff, i know i don't
have most of them, but i'm sure someone does..

6 we need a lot more writers, (or better writers), i've put
up the skeletons for most of the uwmk2 singles, up to
bruce lee....can someone do the rest?

thanx again for the input..

later
-1

[big screen satellite]

didn't wanna diss your work Raj, you've done a great job putting all that stuff up there, and now the templates are there, we can all add stuff to them - which is the idea

and i'll add some input it it all soon myself...

[stimpee]

what the wiki strives to be is irrelevant. other bands have comprehensive discography sections split off from the main band page and it works well. i dont see why we should be any different. check out the depeche mode main page and then you'll see a link near the top with Depeche Mode Discography (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depeche_Mode_discography)

[Lou]

ok, i think it was a good idea to join forces and start something like this, but what's the point of puting things up that can be taken down again? why not wait a bit till Scott has set up a wiki kind of thing at the dirty server? (or is it the name wiki that causes the hurry? ;) )
Once it's here, you can put up all that you want in any form you agree upon, whether you know every tiny detail or have to guess about some of it, whether it has been pressed 2 times or thousands of times.
Another thing is, i think a lot of respect is needed for eachother's input, e.g. don't start merging things together without prior consultation. I thought the whole idea was to be able to add.
If any one is very, meticulously, precise here it's Negative1.
I'm willing to help once it's set up here at dirty and there is some understanding about altering eachother's input etc ;)

[the real stuff]

Indeed, these are the reasons I'm looking forward to a dirty-hosted wiki. There won't be nearly as many reasons for us to step on eachother's feet.

So why bother dealing with Wikipedia? Well, I personally think Underworld deserves better recognition on Wikipedia. A complete and accurate discography is certainly desired, but it's a matter of what is deemed notable by the Wikipedia community. We've already flagged their attention with the Confusion the Waitress article. Like Matt said, I think we should focus on the more influential releases with concrete evidence (chart status, citable reviews/interviews, etc.).

The two projects will be markedly different. On Wikipedia our goal should be to establish Underworld as a significant influence to electronic music and popular culture. On the dirty.org wiki, we get to dive into all the details and eccentricities of the band, without having to formally introduce each article as "[[blah]] is a track by [[Underworld]], released in [[blah]] and reached [[blah blah]] ......." if you get what I mean.

[stimpee]

ok, i think it was a good idea to join forces and start something like this, but what's the point of puting things up that can be taken down again? why not wait a bit till Scott has set up a wiki kind of thing at the dirty server?because the Wiki is where a lot of people on the internet look for information these days and it deserves to be a good source of Underworld information.
Once it's here, you can put up all that you want in any form you agree uponyes but we can do it now and very easily move the text over if and when it happens. why wait?

A complete and accurate discography is certainly desired, but it's a matter of what is deemed notable by the Wikipedia community. Like Matt said, I think we should focus on the more influential releases with concrete evidence (chart status, citable reviews/interviews, etc.).We should be concentrating on non-promo items for sure. Items that have been released in their 1000s not in handfuls (ME/The Hump excepted).The two projects will be markedly different. On Wikipedia our goal should be to establish Underworld as a significant influence to electronic music and popular culture. On the dirty.org wiki, we get to dive into all the details and eccentricities of the band, without having to formally introduce each article as "[[blah]] is a track by [[Underworld]], released in [[blah]] and reached [[blah blah]] ......." if you get what I mean.I know what you mean. The Wiki should aim to be more informational but it does need a basic discography. What it doesnt really need is such a comprehensive discography as is wanted here.

What I dont get is why we should STOP what we are doing when all the information is so easily transferrable. To tanyone suggesting this you are welcome to stay away from it until a dirty wiki is started, its your choice. I'm sure i'm not the only one who is kind of enjoying creating this and will also enjoy moving it over and helping create a dirty wiki too. The wikipedia isnt going anywhere anytime soon. Maintaining 2 wiki's won't be too much of an effort either, once the main discog and info is created.

[negative1]

i checked out the depeche mode, and the new order entries,
both are very simple, and missing a lot of items..although
i like the table format..

i'd rather go to : depmod.com and the niagara new order
discography for more information....but that's just me..

once again, whats wrong with trying to be complete?
especially if the information 'can' be moved somewhere
else later on..

i haven't seen what the rest of the underworld entries
are going to be like, so i can't really comment on what
are going to be complete/accurate/etc....and i don't
know about the earlier/latter releases anyways, so
i won't be touching those...

like i mentioned, we really need a lot of writers, and
even a picture for the group.....where's all the people
that write so much here? all i wanted to do was to make
one section of it accurate, which i think is minor to all
the rest of the work that needs to be done...

i know matt's up for adding to it, but why not start now,
and see how it goes?

later
-1

[negative1]

i updated the page for '8 ball'...
and fixed the links forward/back..
need to add some other promo's in there..

can someone do the write-up for the
anthology? and for the uw MK3 releases?

good to see they kept 'confusion the waitress',
good work matt, and ethan.

thanx

later
-1

[negative1]

i've partitioned the main page by album
-removed uk hits section
-started the discography page here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underworld_discography

this is probably more basic for regular people,
and it needs uw MK1 , MK3 stuff added,
along with all the videos, compilations, etc..

i wonder if we should remove all the discography
from the main page?

later
-1

[stimpee]

Having just come back from the UK on holiday and checked the status of the wiki, i'd like to thank all those involved for the input as I see it has come a good distance.

[negative1]

i've added thumbnails for most of the singles,
some scans taken from:

http://www.kompaktkiste.de/underworld.htm

later
-1

[negative1]

finished the last couple
of stubs for the singles..

that should do it for now..

later
-1

[stimpee]

Life has been put on hold for the World Cup but normal service (kinda) will be resumed soon so I should go thru the pages and see what I can add.

[big screen satellite]

Life has been put on hold for the World Cup but normal service (kinda) will be resumed soon so I should go thru the pages and see what I can add.


me too...

First off, i think we need to make the text on the discography uniform, so basic things like below are standard:

Push Upstairs

NOT

push upstairs (lower case)

NOT

PUSH UPSTAIRS (all upper case)

both versions, of which, appear in some form or other on the discography pages - it looks shoddy...

If these haven't been changed by anyone i'll do it when i get the chance, and in the meantime if anyone is adding things please can we use standard English grammar, and not variations like those above, i suspect some chunks of text have just been copied and pasted from various sources, including my website, where its all capitalised, but my site is uniform in this, and i think the wiki should be too...

i know Raj has basically set this up so everything is there in some format from the start - which is great, now it needs tidying up in the detail and final (fine detailed) presentation. Raj has done a brilliant job in getting it all on there now we need to fill it out.

I've changed a couple of things in a few places already:

for example its: Why, Why, Why and NOT Why? Why? Why?

also in any descriptions i think we should move away from simple opinions and just put in facts, for example i changed part of the description for Rez:

It became one of their best club/live anthems despite the fact it could not be found on an album, to:

It became one of their biggest club/live anthems despite the fact it could not be found on an album.

i felt that read better...

and finally for now, i think we should take down anything that has no verification whatsoever, such as question marked releases '??' and things like the Spoonman promo - which, i suspect, never came out ever.

We can add these things back in, as and when they do surface (if ever) but i'd rather not see them on somewhere like this, i feel that these things are ok on fan sites, which like to speculate about releases and such, but as part of a discography on an official encyclopedia type site, i think they should be removed.

[big screen satellite]

I've just been scouring a pile of 100's of articles that i have been sent - way too much Freur & UW info than is possible... and this will go along way into helping my Underworld history when i get round to writing it...

but thats all by the by, as part of the clippings, i have, there is a page load of DJ charts from the time UW started out and one DJ, Kenneth Baker (who?) lists in his chart:

2. 'Spoonman' (White)

now, i wonder if this actually was ever promoed separately, or whether this is one of the 12"'s from the W/L Dubnobass 2xLP set, which certainly does exist (as i have it) and may go someway to resolve the confusion over the existence of the Spoonman Promo...

if anyone does indeed have a one sided promo 12" of Spoonman, i have yet to hear of it, and wouldn't be surprised if this White mentioned was indeed part of the Album and not a seperate release.

[mark3]

one DJ, Kenneth Baker (who?)
Kenneth Bager aka Dr. Baker is a Danish Dj. Had a big hit 'Kaos' in the early 90s. Started his own label 'Coma' and released Mental Generation's Cafe del Mar which Underworld liked so much they wanted to remix it.

Would love to find out more about that Spoonman 12" too :)

[negative1]

i've added 'the misterons mix' info onto the wiki,
however, i dont' have a tracklisting yet..

later
-1

[big screen satellite]

Ok, i've started formatting each page so it looks a bit nicer and have added in some additional bits and pieces of info i have gathered from my files / own knowledge...

Having originally, with the help of some others, set the standard with the Spikee / Dogman Go Woof page, i have decided to use that one page as the basic outline of how the rest of the Wiki discog should look. (i.e. to keep all the listings in a similar format / wording).

I've decided to go in order of releases and have just modified Mother Earth / The Hump & Mmm... Skyscraper I Love You pages, so any pages after these chronologically with the exception of Spikee, will require changing.

If you think anything needs changing on these pages let me know here...or go ahead and make the change yerself...

[TheBang]

I went through a few of the singles pages today, mostly cleaning up Track Listings so the formatting is more uniform (capitalizations, parentheses, etc.), and when I hit Dirty, I realized there isn't a page for Lemon Interupt. Do you think we should make one?

[TheBang]

OK, I split out the content for the Dirty and Dirty Epic singles, and while I was at it, I created a Bigmouth page. Now we're just missing a Lemon Interupt page.

[negative1]

i'm trying out the eclipse editor:

http://www.plog4u.org/index.php/Using_Eclipse_Wikipedia_Editor:Getting_Started#Ins tallation

if you're feeling adventurous try it out,

i think it will help greatly, if you want to
edit offline, and do a lot of work, when
not connected to the internet..

ok, couldn't get it to work, now trying jedit, http://www.djini.de/software/mwjed/

later
-1

[TheBang]

I added articles for the 5 new 12" releases. Feel free to look over them and fix anything. I threw them in under the Singles category.

[negative1]

i dont think they should be added until they are
actually released..

or maybe i'm just a pessimist..

later
-1

[big screen satellite]

i dont think they should be added until they are
actually released..

or maybe i'm just a pessimist..

later
-1

they are definitely coming out... for sure...

[TheBang]

I'm just impatient. :)

And having fun with Wikipedia. It appeals to my fastidiousness.

[negative1]

they are definitely coming out... for sure...

that wasn't my point..

future releases, i think shouldn't be added
until they are actually out..

i've seen a lot of things that say they'll be out,
but then they change, etc..(seen it happen
to new order, depeche mode, etc..)

actually, i think there's a notation you can put
that warns people that its a future release.

of course, i do hope they come out..but until
they are really out, and someone has them..

you never know..

later
-1

[big screen satellite]

that wasn't my point..

future releases, i think shouldn't be added
until they are actually out..

i've seen a lot of things that say they'll be out,
but then they change, etc..(seen it happen
to new order, depeche mode, etc..)

actually, i think there's a notation you can put
that warns people that its a future release.

of course, i do hope they come out..but until
they are really out, and someone has them..

you never know..

later
-1

i'll let you know when i get mine then ;)

[BeautifulBurnout]

I'm just impatient. :)

And having fun with Wikipedia. It appeals to my fastidiousness.

And the lazy among us are appreciating the work that is going into this. Awesome job chaps. :)

[TheBang]

actually, i think there's a notation you can put
that warns people that its a future release.

Added. :) That means they show up on the Upcoming albums (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Upcoming_albums) list now too. Whee! Wikipedia is fun.

[negative1]

nice picture of the duo from ethan is up..

however, i think there should be a picture
with darren price, since he's a member also...

later
-1

[TheBang]

There are a few promo pics of the trio in the Perou galleries, if someone wants to pick another one. There are also some more of them in the Tokyo 2005 gallery.

[lloyd]

Best ask Perou for one then. He dosn't like pictures to be linked without permission. And since he was member here for a few hours (where did you go???) he might perhaps give one with (c) on it.

[TheBang]

OK, now that I have the vinyl in hand, I've added final details (catalog numbers, track listings, etc.) to the Wikipedia articles. However, can someone upload an image of the Vanilla Monkey jacket (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Underworld-vanillamonkey.jpg)? Apparently the one I grabbed from the HMV site was not the final artwork, cause my vinyl is significantly different.

Also, I've created an article for the Breaking and Entering soundtrack (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breaking_and_Entering_%28soundtrack%29) and added it to the Discography.

Trying to figure out where (or even if) the promo CD's for the Riverrun Remixes should go. My first thought was to put it under The Riverrun Project section. But maybe it could go under Singles and EP's too, I dunno. Any suggestions? Or leave them out entirely?

[stimpee]

Any more progress on this recently?

[gaborez]

There's a pic on there labelled:

Underworld in 2005, left to right: Karl Hyde, Rick Smith, and Darren Price

but i fear that's wrong... looks like an older pic with a blonde karl and the old darren...? unless i'm mistaken? :confused:



p.s. of course i know nothing of wiki and am v impressed with this page you clever people are creating. nice work :)

[King of Snake]

There's a pic on there labelled:

Underworld in 2005, left to right: Karl Hyde, Rick Smith, and Darren Price

but i fear that's wrong... looks like an older pic with a blonde karl and the old darren...? unless i'm mistaken? :confused:



p.s. of course i know nothing of wiki and am v impressed with this page you clever people are creating. nice work :)

You are right. I've corrected it.
(wow, first time editing a wiki for me too :)

[TheBang]

Any more progress on this recently?
Eh, little bits here and there. Mostly from me. I reformatted the structure of the main article recently to more closely match Wikipedia style, but I haven't changed much of the actual copy. I try to keep it up to date with the latest goings-on. The individual album and single articles could probably use some clean-up and expansion.

They deleted my wordimagesoundplay article because it was "not-notable." :mad:

The Sunshine soundtrack article is awaiting a track listing. And whoever maintains the Underworld MySpace page stole my intro paragraph from that article. :D

[King of Snake]

one thing I think that needs to be decided on: currently Darren Price is mentioned several times in the Wiki as an official band-member of Underworld. AFAIK this has so far not been confirmed by the band and seems unlikely to happen at all. What do you think?

[testudo]

They deleted my wordimagesoundplay article because it was "not-notable." :mad:



this is wrong, i think the fact that there is a smaple of 'Darc' is WISP makes it VERY notable.

[negative1]

oops, wrong thread,
more comments later

-1

[TheBang]

oops, wrong thread,
more comments later

-1
Raj! Welcome back!

[BeautifulBurnout]

one thing I think that needs to be decided on: currently Darren Price is mentioned several times in the Wiki as an official band-member of Underworld. AFAIK this has so far not been confirmed by the band and seems unlikely to happen at all. What do you think?

With you on that one - don't think he is a member of the band per se. More a good mate that comes along to enhance things. Dunno. Will be interesting to see if he is credited on the new album or not. That will be the yardstick, imo.

[King of Snake]

I'd like to do some more contributions to the wiki, but I'm not really sure where to start or what needs to be done. The main wiki looks pretty complete in terms of basic info, but obviously could be expanded upon with a lot more detail.
It's a shame the dirty/underworld section is offline, since the articles there would be a good source for lots of history-info.

[stimpee]

The discography could be cleaned up a little. the individual pages are ok but the overview is untidy. the Fluke pages are a good example.

[TheBang]

You can still access the Dirty pages here, including the articles section:

http://www.dirty.org/underworld/news.php

As for Wikipedia, the main article needs clean-up. I basically just reformatted it last month into a rough historical chronology to better fit standard Wikipedia style on band articles, but I didn't do any copy editing. Pretty much most of the discography articles could use expansion, clean-up, and standardization.

Check out these featured articles for examples of some of the best music articles available on Wikipedia. These should be guidelines for formatting and content in our articles. There are examples for band, album, and song articles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_articles#Music

[King of Snake]

thanks! Good to see the articles are still there. Will try and add some stuff over the weekend.

[negative1]

good to see the pages about the new album, tours, etc have been
updated.

also, thanks to whoever put up the picture of them playing
live in new york (i was there!)..

maybe some more updates later...

-1

[dc_04]

feel free to use any of my pictures/videos for the wiki page.

http://www.dustincamilleri.com

just send me an email and let me know what you're using! :)

- dc

[TheBang]

good to see the pages about the new album, tours, etc have been
updated.

also, thanks to whoever put up the picture of them playing
live in new york (i was there!)..
Yes, it's a lonely job updating Wikipedia. :(

However, as I've intimated to a few people, there are bigger plans afoot, wiki-wise. :D

[negative1]

I've intimated

???????? initiated? imitated? intimadated?

-1

[TheBang]

intimate[1,transitive verb]

2 : to communicate delicately and indirectly : hint

[negative1]

time to use a dictionary..

anyways, a couple of things.

1 since OWB is out, the main pages wording has been changed
to reflect that

2 the album page for OWB, might want to reflect it being available
on iTunes, and also from the service that people get from pre-ordering it..

3 the singles page for 'crocodile' should reflect the iTunes releases also.
(as mentioned by matt, the UK release has an extra mix, not released
elsewhere)..

4 it might want to be mentioned that the underworld store is now open again

5 all 5 of the new live albums should be mentioned as being official..
with the links to the site, listings, etc..

keep up the good work!

later
-1

[negative1]

looks like all the new live albums have been added,

along with a note about ricks illness, and the cancellation
of the current tours..

later
-1

[negative1]

shouldn't the 'king of snake' single appear before 'push upstairs'?

looks like we lost the 'confusion the waitress' remix also...

later
-1

[TheBang]

"Push Upstairs" was first, "Jumbo" was second, and "King of Snake" was third.

http://www.discogs.com/release/93392
http://www.discogs.com/release/10628
http://www.discogs.com/release/10625

[negative1]

"Push Upstairs" was first, "Jumbo" was second, and "King of Snake" was third.

http://www.discogs.com/release/93392
http://www.discogs.com/release/10628
http://www.discogs.com/release/10625
i use discogs too,
but they're wrong...

the first 2 promos of 'king of snake' came out way
before 'push upstairs' did..

both matt's site, and lazlo's have the 12"s listed
before the album came out, and then push upstairs..
http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?freur (http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-b-n/discogs)
Underworld: King Of Snake
[1999] single

12": 1999 UK (JBO; JBO 5005826 P) [promo x300; blue sticker]
8:55 King Of Snake (original version)
6:54 King Of Snake (dave angel rework)

12": 1999 UK (JBO; JBO 5005826 P) [promo x300; brown sticker]
6:01 King Of Snake (dave clark remix)
7:30 Kittens (s.m.f.u. - original mix)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Underworld: Beaucoup Fish
[1999] album

CD: 1999 US (JBO/V2; 63881-27042-2)
11:45 Cups
4:34 Push Upstairs
6:57 Jumbo
9:31 Shudder/King Of Snake
4:29 Winjer
4:08 Skym
4:42 Bruce Lee
7:31 Kittens
6:03 Push Downstairs
6:37 Something Like A Mama
7:38 Moaner

CSS: 1999 UK (JBO/V2; ??) [promo sampler]
Cups
Bruce Lee
Kittens

CSS: 1999 UK (JBO/V2; ??) [promo sampler; tracks unconfirmed]
Cups
Jumbo
King Of Snake/Winjer
Skym
Bruce Lee
S.M.F.U.
Push Downstairs

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Underworld: Push Upstairs
[1999] single

etc...

================

also, i remember buying the 12"s, and getting the
dave clarke mix on a sampler cd early too..

i can post the early discography information
from the early rtsr/dreamagoria sites also..

later
-1

[negative1]

also 'kittens's was one of the first digital releases,
and should have a page for its release also...

later
-1

[TheBang]

Yeah, the promos came out first, but the proper single release was in that order, so that's how it should go, IMO.

As for Kittens, there are certain guidelines for articles on Wikipedia. One of those is notability:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:Notability

It will not pass that criteria. That's the same reason the Confusion article was deleted.

I've become increasingly frustrated over the last year by the constraints of Wikipedia. It is simply not an appropriate venue for all the Underworld trivia that we want to put down.

[negative1]

Yeah, the promos came out first, but the proper single release was in that order, so that's how it should go, IMO.

As for Kittens, there are certain guidelines for articles on Wikipedia. One of those is notability:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:Notability

It will not pass that criteria. That's the same reason the Confusion article was deleted.

I've become increasingly frustrated over the last year by the constraints of Wikipedia. It is simply not an appropriate venue for all the Underworld trivia that we want to put down.

kittens was a digital release (a free one), but wouldn't that
count, just like itunes releases? its also notable as being the
first one for the group, preceding 'riverun' etc..


yeah, i know, we need another page for the non-standard releases,
why are some promos ok (juanita), and others aren't? (dirty, rowla, etc)..

later
-1

[Dirty0900]

Kittens was a free download and done way before the whole Napster issue blew up.

[TheBang]

It's not me you have to convince, -1. I'm just telling you what will happen if you make the article, because of the guideline-nazi editors. Here are some more details on Notability:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:MUSTARD#Notability_and_encyclopedic_worth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Music/Notability_and_Songs#Songs

In particular, this is what Confusion ran afoul of, and why it was deleted. I'm not saying it'll happen right away, but out of the blue one day, someone who's a stickler for those guidelines will happen across the article and nominate it for deletion, and there won't be any way to stop it, just like the Confusion article.

[Dirty0900]

What about an entry for known songs that have yet to be released. E.g. Bamboo, You Do Scribble. Could be a nice touch to list their first appearances to see how long they've been experimented with to.

[negative1]

added 'beautiful burnout' to the singles on the wiki.

-1

[the real stuff]

Yeah, wasn't there talk of creating our very own dirty.org wiki (well, darktrain.org, I guess)? I'd fully support this, as we could do whatever we want and be as detailed as we like.

The problem with our presence on Wikipedia is that it is strictly encyclopedic, which limits us to things deemed 'notable', like TheBang said (and all sorts of other silly guidelines/restrictions).

Clearly what we need is something more than that: a comprehensive resource to all things Underworld.

[negative1]

Yeah, wasn't there talk of creating our very own dirty.org wiki (well, darktrain.org, I guess)? I'd fully support this, as we could do whatever we want and be as detailed as we like.

The problem with our presence on Wikipedia is that it is strictly encyclopedic, which limits us to things deemed 'notable', like TheBang said (and all sorts of other silly guidelines/restrictions).

Clearly what we need is something more than that: a comprehensive resource to all things Underworld.

that would be matt v's site.

-1

[the real stuff]

but it would be even better and more flexible under the wiki software ;)

[negative1]

+i've updated the 'beautiful burnout' section a little more
than the 12", and the second promo, by adding the
digital only mixes...

-updated 'boy boy boy' to only be on cd format..

+added the 7 track uk promo cd single to listings..

i guess the main section should be updated to mention
some of the live gigs they've done, webcasts, and
especially releasing 'the book of jam'...


later
-1

[Vectorman0]

I just wanted to say "thanks" to everyone who has helped update the wiki. I have found it very helpful the past few months as I have been procuring Underworld music, and finding what items to put on my want list.

[negative1]

i've updated the main page with a sentence to say that 2 sets of tracks
are available through underworldlive.com

does someone want to update the discography at wikipedia?

later
-1

[Flywaver]

How comes not all the recent Live albums are not there, any reason?

[negative1]

How comes not all the recent Live albums are not there, any reason?

yeah,
those need to be added also..

later
-1

[stimpee]

So, is there anyone still working on the wiki?

I've just edited the Spikee page to point to the Dark & Long page as next single instead of the non-existent Spoonman single. D&L already points to Spikee on the way back.

What still needs to exist is an 8 ball page.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8_Ball_%28Underworld_song%29
Anyone want to create one?

What points to this page is the Beaucoup Fish Box Set page and the Cowgirl Live page (which exists at the bottom of the Cowgirl page) in the chronology.

[TheBang]

So, is there anyone still working on the wiki?
No, I gave up on Wikipedia. The notability and citation requirements are just too stringent for the kind of stuff we want to put on there.