so.. @ karl and rick

[bryantm3]

we've discussed this here before, but we'd like to hear.. are y'all or darren (new or old) influenced by progressive rock bands such as Genesis, Yes, Emerson, Lake & Palmer, Camel, Brand X, etc.?

[grady]

I'm always curious to know what the boys and the crew for that matter(danielle, darren, and the warwicker and other tomats like graham wood) are reading and watching.

[stimpee]

we've discussed this here before, but we'd like to hear.. are y'all or darren (new or old) influenced by progressive rock bands such as Genesis, Yes, Emerson, Lake & Palmer, Camel, Brand X, etc.?i hope not. I'd rather not know! :D

[grady]

So in todays posting Karl mentioned the Black Mountain College. I wonder what else is floating around the shelfs of castle hyde, castle smith, the lemonworld, and even the bungaloo under the stairs.

Probably not much time to read during the day with all the work going on.

[bryantm3]

i wonder if he'll shed some light on this tomorrow.

[bryantm3]

bump .

[holden]

http://www.underworldlive.com/
for 3.8.05

You've been answered, bryantm3! Less prog, more R&B. Maybe some ELP. Or at least the E. Emerson, that is, not that other E:p

[votingfloater]

You've been answered, bryantm3! Less prog, more R&B. Maybe some ELP. Or at least the E. Emerson, that is, not that other E:p

... Keith, that is, not that other Emerson. :p

Hmm... I wonder if we can expect a bit of crowing from Stimpee in that UW and prog bands thread... heheheh. :D

(A small irrelevant aside: Karl's bloody lucky to have been raised on that musical diet, though - I got godawful 70's country (like John Denver). After I left home I found out my parents had loved Hendrix, The Beatles etc. What a stupid thing to keep a secret. :mad:)

[34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j]

Personally, I would assume that UW's influences from the 70's would be something more German, and Rick has already mentioned Kraftwerk...but bands like Can, Faust, Neu!, Amon Duul II, and so on took a lot of prog elements but are way more electronic and modern-sounding, a lot of this could have been recorded yesterday!

But I can't see any real influences in their work besides maybe Eno, and of course Kraftwerk on a few tracks...certainly I don't know what ELP has to do with the guys, I just can't see the connection (and I am...or was a HUGE ELP fan).

[holden]

But I can't see any real influences in their work besides maybe Eno, and of course Kraftwerk on a few tracks....

How about Giorgio Moroder? ;)

[bryantm3]

well, that certainly answers my question, then!

i wonder why UW have attracted so many prog fans, though. i bet it's because like the prog bands, they're original and no one has treaded the musical ground that they have. i mean, find another juanita : kiteless : to dream of love or cherry pie.

[patrick]

yay! motown is amazing! they and all the american soul and funk stuff is just all amazing music

[stimpee]

i wonder why UW have attracted so many prog fans, though.where are these prog fans? youre delusional. i think you've listened to one rick wakeman harpsichord solo too many. ;)

bryantm3: listened to any krautrock?

[holden]

where are these prog fans? youre delusional.

http://www.dirty.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2353&highlight=prog

In between your bellyaching, there were actually a fair share of progressive music fans!:p But whatever, stay hipper than hip

[stimpee]

i wonder why UW have attracted so many prog fansso many. literally less than a dozen. totally underflowing with prog fans here.

bellyaching? no, just deja-vu. this subject is done.

[34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j]

How about Giorgio Moroder? ;)

Haha, forgot that one! But yeah, like in my previous post, I gotta echo what stimp says...krautrock! Krautrock!! Honestly discovering some of this music was like...well, getting into Underworld for the first time! :p

But hey, I'm a big prog-head too, although that came after I bought Beacoup Fish. I don't see too many parallels between the two...I think Squarepusher would have a lot more to do with them, and even some Orbital (ever heard the 28 minute "The Box"? Sounds just like something like "Tarkus", "Supper's Ready", or even "Close to the Edge"!). Calling Juanita/blah blah blah progressive is a bit of a stretch though, considering that the longer prog songs had sooo many different themes and time signatures, whereas Juanita stays mostly the same througout. This, again is a lot more analogous to something like "Halleluwah" by Can, which is 18 minutes long and pretty much the same throughout, but it's great all the same.

[stimpee]

Haha, forgot that one! But yeah, like in my previous post, I gotta echo what stimp says...krautrock! Krautrock!! Honestly discovering some of this music was like...well, getting into Underworld for the first time! :p

But hey, I'm a big prog-head too, although that came after I bought Beacoup Fish. I don't see too many parallels between the two...I think Squarepusher would have a lot more to do with them, and even some Orbital (ever heard the 28 minute "The Box"? Sounds just like something like "Tarkus", "Supper's Ready", or even "Close to the Edge"!). Calling Juanita/blah blah blah progressive is a bit of a stretch though, considering that the longer prog songs had sooo many different themes and time signatures, whereas Juanita stays mostly the same througout. This, again is a lot more analogous to something like "Halleluwah" by Can, which is 18 minutes long and pretty much the same throughout, but it's great all the same.what he said. krautrock, yes. prog rock, no. time for bed.

[BeautifulBurnout]

so many. literally less than a dozen. totally underflowing with prog fans here.



Less than a dozen? That's conjecture, not fact!

I feel a poll coming on here... :p

[stimpee]

Less than a dozen? That's conjecture, not fact!

I feel a poll coming on here... :pno polls needed. you can just study the evidence in the previous thread m'lady :)

[holden]

no polls needed. you can just study the evidence in the previous thread m'lady :)

Lookit what Karl's listening to today: and follow the link!
http://www.progreviews.com/reviews/display.php?rev=guru-ufo
:p

p.s. number of posters on a thread isn't evidence against there being more prog fans amongs the registered dirties. There are almost a thousand registered members, but few are regular posters even for UW -related topics. So i don't buy your argument. Just be aware that there is an underwelling of support for music that used to, and often still does, stretch experimental boundaries. And no amount of nay-saying can take that away from us! None, i say!;)

[BeautifulBurnout]

Lookit what Karl's listening to today: and follow the link!
http://www.progreviews.com/reviews/display.php?rev=guru-ufo
:p

HAH!

Do you think the term "nar nar ner nar nar" sounds a bit childish coming from me? :p

[34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j]

Lookit what Karl's listening to today: and follow the link!
http://www.progreviews.com/reviews/display.php?rev=guru-ufo
:p


But wait! Guru Guru falls more into the Krautrock category than anything else. Generally a lot of prog sites recognize krautrock as a subset of prog, which it *kinda* is, in a way.

[BeautifulBurnout]

But wait! Guru Guru falls more into the Krautrock category than anything else. Generally a lot of prog sites recognize krautrock as a subset of prog, which it *kinda* is, in a way.

Yeah... keep digging, you're doing fine so far.... :p

[stimpee]

p.s. number of posters on a thread isn't evidence against there being more prog fans amongs the registered dirties. im hearing static here. to whom was bryantm3 referring then? the uncounted and voiceless prog rock-underworld masses? anyway, its a moot (and mute) point.

Krautrock is a lot closer to Underworld's sounds, not prog rock. As thrashed out in the other thread. I recommend listening to some, as its quite an ear opener (Neu!/early Can/some Faust/early Kraftwerk-related). 34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j is spot on except for suggesting the krautrock being a subset of prog. Krautrock dates from about 1968 onwards.

[holden]

im hearing static here. to whom was bryantm3 referring then? the uncounted and voiceless prog rock-underworld masses? anyway, its a moot (and mute) point.
Sez you!
How is it that even the UW polls get only 30-40 votes for an option, and these are the UW boards fer cryin' out loud. Therefore, i think having a dozen or so people voice their interest in progressive music and, heaven forbid, something more modern, is a pretty good response. And thanks for always considering my and others' opinion on this matter as moot. You're incorrigible, and even if Karl said he listened to King Crimson 24 hours a day for the past 30 years will it make an impression. That's fine, be dismissive...unfortunately such replies always come off as trying to silence other people's opinions you don't agree with. Is that the Moderator's job?

Krautrock is a lot closer to Underworld's sounds, not prog rock. As thrashed out in the other thread. I recommend listening to some, as its quite an ear opener (Neu!/early Can/some Faust/early Kraftwerk-related). 34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j is spot on except for suggesting the krautrock being a subset of prog. Krautrock dates from about 1968 onwards. Too bad prog dates from the mid 60's. :p

But i'll admit that this is like beating a dead horse every time this issue is raised. i'm letting it drop. Forget i ever had any opinion on the matter. Now please have the last word. (rant over. It's been a rough week...don't take it too personally :o )
holden

[stimpee]

Sez you!
How is it that even the UW polls get only 30-40 votes for an option, and these are the UW boards fer cryin' out loud. Therefore, i think having a dozen or so people voice their interest in progressive music and, heaven forbid, something more modern, is a pretty good response. so now its a "dozen or so". i said less than that its an opinion of a few (and THAT is the moot point, not the opinions on the music.) just because someone states an influence doesnt mean that everyone has to agree with it.
And thanks for always considering my and others' opinion on this matter as moot. You're incorrigible, and even if Karl said he listened to King Crimson 24 hours a day for the past 30 years will it make an impression. That's fine, be dismissive...unfortunately such replies always come off as trying to silence other people's opinions you don't agree with. Is that the Moderator's job?There's being dismissive and then theres putting forward another argument which I believe is more valid, and that is the Krautrock argument. And Karl didnt say that he was explicitly influenced by prog rock so that should be enough to quieten this argument also (especially as Guru Guru are regarded by most as Krautrock, and Tangerine Dream certainly are). What has irked me has been the insinuation that Krautrock has had no influence and that prog rock has, (while you may argue is the reverse). I'm not the one who started not one, but two threads on the subject. And please dont bring my moderator status into any of these discussions.
Too bad prog dates from the mid 60's. :pI hardly think that prog rock had such a hold in the publics imagination and certainly not in the Western german music scene as to influence Can/Faust/Kraftwerk/Tangerine Dream/Neu and Conny Plank's studio in Cologne as to be considered a splinter of prog rock.
But i'll admit that this is like beating a dead horse every time this issue is raised. i'm letting it drop. Forget i ever had any opinion on the matter. Now please have the last word. (rant over. It's been a rough week...don't take it too personally :o )
holdenSorry about my not letting go, but the feeling that Genesis or Yes could have influenced Underworld really got under my skin, as I'm guessing that the people arguing about this havent heard any of the stuff that I've been talking about (yes I have heard lots of prog rock) and that 34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j has been mentioning.

What I will admit is that if there is an influence by prog rock on Underworld, then there is a far greater influence by Krautrock on the band.

I certainly dont want to say any more on the subject either. No hard feelings, certainly not.

[34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j]

Krautrock is a lot closer to Underworld's sounds, not prog rock. As thrashed out in the other thread. I recommend listening to some, as its quite an ear opener (Neu!/early Can/some Faust/early Kraftwerk-related). 34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j is spot on except for suggesting the krautrock being a subset of prog. Krautrock dates from about 1968 onwards.

I'm not saying it is a subset, but a lot of prog sites consider it as such. A lot of prog sites like Ground and Sky or Progarchives review a lot of krautrock, because the genre is appealing to prog fans and has many of the same elements...mostly an affinity toward longer compositions and instrumental brilliance (it would be hard to deny that Can weren't one of the most talented bands to ever exist...the band's ability to jam is just unmatched). Of course, prog is a pretty tough genre to define anyway...but as far as dates go, I'll just take your word for it that 1968 was the date for krautrock...and while prog didn't get popular until In The Court... came out in '69, I do believe that The Nice started the genre in 1967. But I really doubt that Neu and Can were influenced by The Nice :p

But anyway bryant, just for future reference, if you do really like prog, you should check out these albums - coming from me, I was a HUGE prog-head last year, but these albums really jumped out at me for being something special:

Can - Tago Mago
Neu! - '75
Faust - Faust IV

...all of these are pretty accessible (although Tago Mago has a huge freakout on the second half, the first half is so mindblowing the album is easily one of my favorites), and sound a lot more similar to UW than any prog does.

Oh well, just a suggestion. Stimp, if you've any suggestions feel free to add, especially for myself, because I have yet to really hear a lot of Amon Duul or Tangerine Dream and would love some suggestions if you have any. I don't think this topic is beating a dead horse or a moot point...although it is confusing to have 2 threads on the topic, it's still a good discussion. Debate and argument isn't unnecessary...that's what drives a message board! Right? :confused:

[BeautifulBurnout]

WHOAH!

Why is it this topic generates so much argument (as opposed to discussion)?

All we are doing is musing, some seeing similarities, others not. It is not worth getting our knickers in a knot about, is it people?

Holden: Do remember that just because Stimpee is Moderator, that doesn't mean he has to have an opinion bypass. I take his opinions for what they are. His opinions. Not something that he is trying to "dictate" to anyone.

Stimps: Is it really so heinous, the thought that Rick or Karl might have listened to, and been influenced by, the likes of Crimson, Yes, Genesis, ELP etc? Would it make you hate UW if you found out they were? No. So don't let it "get under your skin".

You are not the same age as Rick and Karl. When they were teenagers (and when I was a teenager) until punk came along big-style in 76, there was nothing much going on except Prog on the one side, Soul in the middle and Cheesy Disco on the other side - sweeping generalisation I know, but that was how it seemed to me at the time. It is easy to look back and criticise Prog Heads, but that was the cutting edge of experimental music. The Krautrock genre may have started up at around the same time, but the definition as a different genre didn't happen until much later. Tangerine Dream was considered to be Prog in the 70s. So all of this is just splitting hairs infinitessimally. And that is only my opinion. ;)