Tracklisting Of Tokyo Gig

[spoonman]

Now i have the Gig of tokyo i have one world to say : Wonderfull !

1- JAL To Tokyo 9 02
2- Mmm Skycraper ... I love you 5 57
3- Kittens 9 06
4- Morrocan Meatballs 2 43
5- Juanita 12 05
6- Spikee 5 27
7- Rez 9 27
8- Simple Distinctive 3 36
9- Nuxx 14 10 (Shouting ...)
10- Two Months off 9 42
11- Aquafunk 4 34 (A funky Hard House=))
12- Peggy Sussed 2 29
13- Lenny Penne 5 37
14- Small Concker and a twix 2 25
15- You do scrrible 7 30
16- Back in the Fears 11 39
17- King Of Snake 10 30
18- Pearls Girl 3 56
19- Push UpStairs 5 48
20- Dark Train 9 36
21- Yard Beat 5 11
22- Jumbo 9 20
23- Rowla 9 27
24- Moaner 9 43
Good Quality of sound!

Finally Underworld mad me mad man =) RICK & KARL & D.P I LOVE YOU !

[Dirty0900]

Now i have the Gig of tokyo i have one world to say : Wonderfull !


4- Morrocan Meatballs 2 43
8- Simple Distinctive 3 36
11- Aquafunk 4 34 (A funky Hard House=))
14- Small Concker and a twix 2 25
16- Back in the Fears 11 39
21- Yard Beat 5 11

Good Quality of sound!

Finally Underworld mad me mad man =) RICK & KARL & D.P I LOVE YOU !

Wow, lots of intresting new stuff!

Any chance you can host the stuff on the CD?

[Ninja Power]

Looks great.

Nice to have the correct track names for the newer (unreleased) material,
do you think there will be a problem hosting these tracks somewhere?

Sure hope we can buy live recordings from the next
**crosses fingers** tour and this catches on.

W.

[stimpee]

Sorry, no hosting of links to this on here.

[thee carp dreamer]

Sorry, no hosting of links to this on here.

fuckin well stick it on horde's ftp then.

[holden]

fuckin well stick it on horde's ftp then.

i think the issue here is that this was an official release that was for sale, not a bootleg, right?

[Dirty0900]

Fair do's its an official release, but its limited to an extreme point.A lot of em will probably end up on ebay anyways:mad:

[joethelion]

ok - I had posted a long... somewhat antagonistic post about whether or not it could've been shared

...then I deleted it - because it could be stated much simpler

it's crap if UW don't share/sell this recording themselves

[or]

if members who have the recording don't share it either


it's not a legitimate release. it's basically a promo, i'd be surprised if even they pressed more copies than were ordered... or if they even charged more than cost.

oh yea - and promo's are shared - so why not now? (not necessarily here)

[crank]

Do UW read this? If so why no availability of said disc to us? I mean
don't they realize they are forcing the proverbial hand of bootlegging?

If they don't realize they are forcing this bootlegging, if they read this list, they'd realize that there was a market out there for this disc.

I think I speak for all of us: I'd rather buy this and have the hard copy in my hand than have to bootleg it. I don't want to illegally own this.

I want to legally own this.

nuff said.
crank

[holden]

After some debate on RTSR, i think the official agreement was to pass on sharing this, as it's a very greay area of official/unofficial, and we have lots of other boots to share and new music. Was this the gist of it, Stimpee?

Maybe this isn't what megafans want to hear, but i'm of the opinion that we have gotten a lot of great stuff from the boys, so i don't feel slighted or ripped off by not having this show or new tracks yet. Heck, maybe some of them will be in new RiverRun bundles?

[BeautifulBurnout]

I think we have done this subject to death on this thread already. (http://www.dirty.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1657)

Do UW read this? If so why no availability of said disc to us? I mean
don't they realize they are forcing the proverbial hand of bootlegging?


This is likely to be a matter relating to licenses and copyrights. It is, ultimately, down to the record company what is released and when in the UK or anywhere else. Perhaps the licence/copyright issue is different in Japan, which has allowed them to do this.

[Leon]

Maybe have some patience and they'll bring it online in some time?

I don't know

[stimpee]

This comes down to essentially the same argument as we had with distribution of the Skyscraper CD, only I believe this is worse. This is brand new, containing new material and although its limited, its run is quite a lot. It was on sale potentially to everyone who attended both Tokyo and Osaka. This is not a promo or a bootleg.

The Buffalo Daughter remix of Bruce Lee was a Japan only release that was probably limited to 10,000 or less copies but that also isnt condoned to copy it and distribute it. The only difference here is that the opportunities to buy it have been severly limited to 2 nights.

But, it stands that this is a commercial release from Underworld. The Underworld forums never have been and never will be a trading place for Underworld recordings, especially commercially released recordings. The rules have been bent before for the odd track from an old promo only vinyl release but that does not set a precedent.

Come on guys, if you want to find it, you WILL find it. You'll find copies either genuine on ebay or on your favourite P2P application. Just not here.

[DaveCTM]

Is there any artwork with these CDs??

[joethelion]

I really wish you hadn't mentioned the Buffalo Daughter remix

as you know what?

guess where I got it -> via one of the older "resources" of RTSR

as well as:

Rowla (long version)
Thrill Me Remixes
Schmoo Remixes
All of the Lemon Interrupt Releases (remixes & otherwise)
Steppin' Razor remixes
those Sven Vath remixes
ME/the Hump
Mmm Skyscraper remixes

I just don't understand what the heck happened. Before, the community was open to share releases that were impossible to find. Then... all of the sudden - everyone simply clammed up.

This happened about the time that I started talking with Negative 1 about putting together an anthology of rare tracks and remixes. -1 then took the project and was helped by matval1... then "debate" arose.

Then I tried to get together at least a remix collection (UW of other artists)... but no one would help me. As people debated as to whether or not it was 'cool' to share commercially available music.

Damn - just sometimes I wish it was like back in the old days... does anyone else remember vap1d's ftp? on that you could find everything!

...but I do completely agree with Stimpee that the out and out sharing of stuff shouldn't be done here - especially stuff that you can find at commercial outlets. But the difference with this release, is that it wasn't, and will never be, available via commercial outlets. UW themselves said it was just for those who attended the shows. I doubt if they pressed more copies than were actually ordered. So - in my eyes, that's the same as a promo

It just royally pisses me off that places like eil.com, vinyl exchange, etc etc get these promo's and then resell them for rediculously higher prices than what they paid for them.

Case in point -> the only way you can buy either "radio versions" of DM's "A Pain That I'm Used To" is if I want to fork out $150. Neither will be released on official cd's, and as they were promo's... DM didn't make any money off the release of the tracks... yet these 'collector' sites make tons of money off of them.

Yet - it's frowned upon if I want to at least score mp3's of the tracks

...which reminds me - does anyone have those two aforementioned tracks :p

(edit)
or am I just completely mis-interpreting what's already been said about sharing stuff?

[dubman]

isn't the.. wait, lemme check

huh, i guess it isn't.
i coulda swore the buffalo daughter mix was on my BF singles box, but i suppose not.
how do i have it then?
oh yeah, because joe gave it to me... haha.

[lloyd]

pics of the artwork on my blog

[stimpee]

joethelion: im with you on using trade and other means like RTSR to get rare songs from promos. but this aint a promo and dirty aint the place. im not even sure that RTSR is the place for this one.

underworld already broadcast the osaka gig for everyone via underworldlive.

you're welcome to drop by the dirty.org chat (http://www.dirty.org/chat) at the #rtsr (http://ugly.blerp.org/~stimpee/chat.jpg) channel and chat sometime to discuss this and other things though. there are always ways to get what you want, just not on this forum.

[GoatSucker]

I agree with the general consensus here - this is a new commercial release by Underworld, so openly sharing it is kind of sticking two fingers up to more releases like it.

Looking it things from other other side, if I had taken the trouble to go to Japan and buy one on site, I'd be pissed if it instantly appeared for download for free. I'd want it to stay are rare as possible.

I know that when I finally get my hands on one of these, I'll be far happier and will treasure it far more for hunting it down than if I'd simply clicked a download link.

[Professor]

I know that when I finally get my hands on one of these, I'll be far happier and will treasure it far more for hunting it down than if I'd simply clicked a download link.


exactly........

[mmm skyscraper]

If there are 7000 copies (see lloyd's blog) floating around this isn't that rare.

Maybe they will release more like this, but available to a wider audience.

[dubman]

Looking it things from other other side, if I had taken the trouble to go to Japan and buy one on site, I'd be pissed if it instantly appeared for download for free. I'd want it to stay are rare as possible.
.

why you greedy little... punk-ass!

they've got their memories, i want the sounds :mad:

[BeautifulBurnout]

Why don't we just rip every UW disc we possess and post links on here? That would be really awesome wouldn't it? Then everyone would have everything they wanted.:eek:

Except... oh...damn... maybe then Rick and Karl wouldn't be able to AFFORD to make the music we love and release it any more, or give us little tidbits for free on their radio shows, or turn a blind eye to the bootlegs floating around...

This is going round and round in circles. Nobody can tell anyone what they can and can't download or share betwen themselves. That is a matter for them alone. But show some BLOODY RESPECT AND CONSIDERATION to the band that treats US with such RESPECT AND CONSIDERATION by not going on and on and on about it on here! Please. :mad:

[Yannick]

laugh and the world laughs with you, weep and you weep alone,

look @ ebay for some special gems showing up shortly. the kind that won't rip you off.

[dubman]

laugh and the world laughs with you, weep and you weep alone

weep on a forum, and you'll find others to do it with you.

it's a bit of a mouthful, maybe that's why it was cut out in oldboy
;)

yeah, i checked ebay a few hours agao. no luck. if it pops up though i might get an account just to nab it.

BB, what are you talking about? i'll spend money. i just want it. i can wait, sure, but i'll make some noise about it.

i am cranky and the internet conducts that energy like a toaster in a pool. i can't help it you know.

[crank]

I guess my point is I would like the option of buying so that I may support an artist(s) that i want to support. I want to remain faithful. I want to give them my money. If I had the option I would send them a paypal payement right now. I guess all i'm saying (and I hope it doesn't sound whiney) is that I'm trying to do it right.

IF what Yan is saying is true, then I'll have the ability to give em my cashola.

crank!

[thee carp dreamer]

you all are acting like this was released in the uk or the usa or any other country. it wasn't. it was sold by the band on two nights in one place in japan.

i'm fucked off that you guys aren't sharing this. i see myself as an underworld fan. i own every single thing with the world "underworld" written on it that i could get my grubby hands on. and frankly, if underworld had given me the opportunity to buy this, i would have. but i was not given the opportunity, and so i feel that i should be allowed to hear this.

no money from ebay sales goes to the band anyway, so if you buy things from ebay, you are not supporting the band. you are merely putting large sums of money into the pockets of lucky people. not the band.

i had a chat with james murphy from the lcd soundsystem about this. dfa records released a promo-only 3cd boxset, with 2cds mixed by james murphy and 1cd mixed by the juan maclean, and it was promo only cos to clear all the tracks would have cost too much. however, two days ago one copy got onto ebay and sold for 100quid, regardless of how much james told people not to buy it. he's trying to work out a way of sticking the mixes online for people as it happens now anyway, because of the price that the cds went for on ebay.

i digress. frankly, i was never given the opportunity to support the band that i love in buying this cd. all this bullshit about "Why don't we just rip every UW disc we possess and post links on here?" is completely besides the point, because those cds are accessible to the general public.

someone please disagree with me. tell me how i could have flown to japan or something to buy the cds.

[stimpee]

you just dont get it do you? let me spell it out and be the bad guy once again:

THE DIRTY FORUMS ARE NOT AND NEVER HAVE BEEN THE PLACE TO DISCUSS THE TRADING OF COMMERCIAL UNDERWORLD RELEASES.

As an additional note, RTSR has traditionally been the place to discuss the trading of bootlegs and old rare promo items. This release is neither.

What you do off this forum is not my business however. If you're desperate to get a copy of this then you can make use of the other wonderful ways of communicating with each other on the internet. But until I am informed otherwise, thats how its gonna be.

Let's just wait and see what happens here.

EDIT: I'm not saying I don't understand your frustration. I too would love to be able to buy a copy right now. This is a special case I know. I also know how devoted you lot are or you wouldn't be here now. That is not the question. The question is how these forums are to be used, and the answer is the one I gave above. I'm sorry but thats just the way it is.

[thee carp dreamer]

for fuck's sake.

how is it that legitimate conversation and arguement about the band whose forum we are in is forbidden, but a 7 page long thread about paul de aragon is perfectly fine?

edit: alright, perhaps i'm not being fair. i'll wait and see like everyone else is...

[GoatSucker]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I'm going to chip in again...:)

if underworld had given me the opportunity to buy this

They did. They gave plenty of notice that people going to Electraglide would be able to buy this release, and that it wouldn't be available elsewhere.
Some things in life are not just about money - they are about being there at the right time and place. This is one of them. Deal with it.

Limited releases aren't new to Underworld - most bands have their share of promos and rare items. Just because this is a limited release, doesn't make you automatically entitled to it, no matter how much to want to support the band.

[mmm skyscraper]

I don't think any of the last couple of singles (nuxx2003, stuff from ahdo) were released in the US. Neither were the Dark & Long singles. It just seems like there's alll this material out there, but no good way to get a hold of it where someone doesn't make money off it that's not the band.

The only thing that makes up for this is the sweet live releases on underworldlive.com. And the nice downloads that you can get in any region.

[thee carp dreamer]

Deal with it.

Just because this is a limited release, doesn't make you automatically entitled to it, no matter how much to want to support the band.

right. you're saying that in order to buy this release, i should have flown to japan and got myself the cd like that, but that's ok, because i was given prior notice of the event. bollocks to that.

i don't want to hear all this elitist bollocks about being "entitled" to buy cds either. everyone should be entitled to buy this cd, as far as i'm concerned.

[holden]

[holden wants to listen to new Underworld... having trouble deciding whether the Osaka show, new archived live shows, LBT, PFE, or dirtyradio previews should be listened to first]

:rolleyes:

;) learn to enjoy what you've got and you don't feel like you're lacking!

[potatobroth]

when you have a website of fans, you have to expect this topic to come up whether tolerated or not. RTSR is the place for this conversation to take place, but its still a question that lots of fans not on the RTSR list are interested in.

most on Dirty wants to get a hold of this. many will. fair and unfair doesn't even factor in when those with the means will get it and those without, won't.

oh, wasn't there suppossed to be some sort of contest or something? is that still happening?

[potatobroth]

I know that when I finally get my hands on one of these, I'll be far happier and will treasure it far more for hunting it down than if I'd simply clicked a download link.

and i know that i'll have spent upwards of $60-$100 dollars for a cd that UW will make no money on.

while im in partial agreement with both sides on here i just gotta ask. is it better if Dirty got hold of ONE cd of the show, and resold it back and forth between its members? does that somehow legitimize going through eBay or a rare music dealer?

I agree with the general consensus here - this is a new commercial release by Underworld, so openly sharing it is kind of sticking two fingers up to more releases like it.

if you really believed this notion, then you wouldn't actively seek out this cd. by 'finally getting your hands on these' you are 'sticking two fingers up' or do you not see the connection?

all of the purchased copies have been purchased. anyone that gets a copy from this point forward is only enabling the resellers.

[phaseblue]

and i know that i'll have spent upwards of $60-$100 dollars for a cd that UW will make no money on.

Life isn't fair!!!

[potatobroth]

Life isn't fair!!!

holy crap is this ever frustrating. i never said life is fair. im just pointing out that all the elitest people on here saying if UW doesnt want to release it then that should be respected, and then going out and searching for it themselves.

like i said in an above post, whats the difference from all the dirts scouring ebay to get themselves a copy, or buying one copy and reselling it via a chain on dirty? in both scenarios, UW has already sold all 8000 cds. now, if there were 10k more cds in a storage room unsold because of trading, then i would ABSOLUTELY disagree with the practice.

and before you break out more of your 'lifes not fair' bs, youre right its not. because i am one of the people that will get hold of the cd, as i have been collecting for many many years. im just sick of all the arguments on here lately when people are just posing legitimate concerns about a band they truely love and music they want to hear.

in fact, i think this is a GREAT topic to bring to light now, because it seems for the next few years, UW is only going to be releasing 'studio' music via the web, so lets get these talks going.

[Stephen]

I've typed a big reply to what Jayynee said earlier but can't be arsed to post it. I agree with John. I'm hunting this shit out on whatever p2p I can find it on. Ban talk if you want, but then you should really expand your net of censorship to include talk about drugs/p2p in general/dirty radio broadcasts/whatever.

Blah.

[phaseblue]

and before you break out more of your 'lifes not fair' bs, youre right its not. .

Hey, I totally understand! Believe me! All I'm saying is that things obviously don't always work out the way we would like them to. Europe got 4 shows recently (not to mention the summer shows), and Japan got 2 shows and a 3 cd set of the live Tokyo show. What about the poor fellas in the U.S.? They didn't get crap!!! I used to live there and I didn't moan about Japan got this release of Dinosaur Adventure 3D, and Europe got that, etc... Granted, live Underworld gigs are the shit, but I just take what comes. To me, actually being at an Underworld show, and the timeless memories it creates, is worth more than any live cd will ever be!!!

[stimpee]

Ban talk if you want,I'm not banning discussion on this subject. But if people intend to come to this forum and provide links on where to download commercially available Underworld material, then action will be taken. That is all. I think its common sense don't you?

Now, if everyone would step back and take a deep breath, stop demanding stuff and chill out, I'm sure there will be a solution coming soon.

[thee carp dreamer]

I'm not banning discussion on this subject. But if people intend to come to this forum and provide links on where to download commercially available Underworld material, then action will be taken. That is all. I think its common sense don't you?

nope. not in the slightest. firstly, isn't not commercially available. if it was, then you'd be happy to point me in the direction where it is commercially available, correct?

you've lost your arguement.

[Cadevil]

nope. not in the slightest. firstly, isn't not commercially available. if it was, then you'd be happy to point me in the direction where it is commercially available, correct?

you've lost your arguement.

Jeez, talk about people needing instant gratification...

Perhaps, since stimp is a moderator, he may be in more of the know about a possible release--maybe on uwlive...

Everyone should calm down on this stuff.

[GoatSucker]

I wasn't going to keep going with this, but what the hell...

im just pointing out that all the elitest people on here saying if UW doesnt want to release it then that should be respected, and then going out and searching for it themselves.


I didn't mean to sound elitist. and that wasn't exactly my argument.
Yes, I'll try and find a copy of this on EBay. Yes, The money will go to an EBayer, not Underworld. But, I think thats a world away from expecting people in this forum to provide download links straight away, which, correct me if I'm wrong, is where this argument started.
Let's all chill out and wait till the dust settles....

[potatobroth]

but this is how it is now with p2p. like it or not things move at a faster speed. if i knew this was going to be released, then i would without a doubt, wait and purchase/support. but say a month goes by and there is no word (like the month that has gone by and there has been no word) then i am going to start looking at alternatives. the people on here are doing so because they are uber fans, not because its a good investment. i dont believe that i am entitled to this piece of music. but i think i am entitled as any other person who was NOT at the show. meaning, if you were not one of the original 7000 people at this show, and now have it, then whatever your morals are, we are in the same boat.

i love the fact that stimp and the other rtsr's have kept UW releases safe. its a very respectable thing they do and a lot of other fansites wouldnt be so considerate.

[mmm skyscraper]

Speaking of commercial releases, are Dubno and STITI out of print in the US? You can't get them on Amazon, which usually has most stuff. A used copy of Dubno is selling for $34.99 on there right now. It looks like all the Wax Trax/TVT stuff is not available new.

[big screen satellite]

what we arguing about again...??

look can we all chill the fuck out....

its only a live CD - its not fucking gold...there are millions of live recordings out there already - this one will turn up somewhere...

everybody calm the fuck down....

now i'm off to listen to my 1 of 25 CD promo's of Jal to Tokyo... ;)

[stimpee]

nope. not in the slightest. firstly, isn't not commercially available. if it was, then you'd be happy to point me in the direction where it is commercially available, correct?i refer the gentleman to the answer I gave some moments ago. See post #28. This is a commercial release.

[potatobroth]

just caught this little phrase:

"The 3CD set will only be made available to fans who have attended Electraglide 2005 and will not be available at any other time or from any other source."

[stimpee]

There may be more information coming on this. Until that time there is no point in repeating what has already been said. Watch this space.

[holden]

There may be more information coming on this. Until that time there is no point in repeating what has already been said. Watch this space.

Dirtyradio is the answer! Listening/enjoying now!

[phaseblue]

Just my copies today - or rather my girlfriend in Tokyo did, so I had to listen to teasers via cellphone :(

mmm...very niiiiiiiiccccccceeeeeee:)

[undarrenworld]

now i'm off to listen to my 1 of 25 CD promo's of Jal to Tokyo... ;)

You are so lucky...

[sunflowereye]

Good lord! This gig's set list is absolutely incredible! Four of my fav UW songs of all time (Juanita, Spikee, Kittens & Rez) are played in the first seven tracks! If I could hear those four tracks at one gig I could die a happy man. This set list puts the two shows I've seen in the States to shame. Hopefully they'll play gigs of this length in the States in the future.

[den]

Speaking of commercial releases, are Dubno and STITI out of print in the US? You can't get them on Amazon, which usually has most stuff. A used copy of Dubno is selling for $34.99 on there right now. It looks like all the Wax Trax/TVT stuff is not available new.
I don't know the answer to this, but out of print doesn't necessarily mean unavailable. Check your used cd stores and I'm sure you could find these cds and more (if not new copies) for far less than $34.99. That price is just ridiculous.

[mmm skyscraper]

I don't know the answer to this, but out of print doesn't necessarily mean unavailable. Check your used cd stores and I'm sure you could find these cds and more (if not new copies) for far less than $34.99. That price is just ridiculous.

Yeah, I've had dubno for ages and still see new copies of it at stores, but was just wondering if it wasn't being made any more.

[change]

Four of my fav UW songs of all time (Juanita, Spikee, Kittens & Rez)

what superb taste!

[andy k]

This entire situation is filthy with bullshit and semantics, and by situation I mean everything in this new phase of releases, not just the live gig.

First of all, Lovely Broken Thing/Pizza For Eggs are released not as tracks, but as continuous mixes that fans have to figure out how to break down without re-encoding just to listen to as they please. What kind of self-indulgent nonsense is that? Underworld were helpful enough to break Dubnobass into separate tracks and trust us to "get it," yeah? Then it's all but impossible to actually purchase the releases with their retarded payment form that hardly worked for so many people, which only prompted fans to download the music illegally.

Then there's the business of the JAL To Tokyo EP available on iTunes in Japan ONLY. Even HARDER to get than LBT or Pizza For Eggs. WTF?

I don't know how anybody can look at the live gig situation as anything but outrageous. Does Underworld, a band whose reputation and adoration are based largely on their live shows, honestly think it's a good idea to alienate so many fans who've been going fucking mental for more official live releases? The monstrous fan-created apparatus for BOOTLEG sharing is all the indication they need that such a limited run is a bad idea. The Pixies, Tori Amos and Pearl Jam are just some bands who've released SEVERAL live albums in an actually useful way and the world doesn't seem to have ended.

But to be fair, I doubt Underworld anticipated the Metallica-esque misery of certain people on this board. This is an official release only by the thinnest stretch of the imagination, you snobby pedants. Get a fucking grip. This is not Everything, Everything. There is no promotion; there are no ads; there are negligible production costs, if ANY; and there is hardly any actual physical PRODUCT at all. If Underworld made all these new releases available to me in ANY way (that actually WORKS), I would be the first in line to buy each and every one, but the band seems to be aimed squarely at being as up-their-own-ass as possible in terms of "the record business" these days and want to shrink their audience as much as possible. But instead all it cost me to get the two new releases was a few hours seeding to balance out my ratio (honestly, Underworld, use fucking PAYPAL or SOMETHING), and I'm going to buy some jackass at least one new X-Box game with what I pay for this bootleg. And the JAL For Tokyo EP? I suppose that will be a little harder to come by, as only 8 or 9 people in the world will get to hear it.

Those of you who've been fortunate enough to possess this live record, it's your business whether or not you share it with other fans who were quite reasonably unable to do so, but the reasons I am reading are 100% rotten. Sheer LAZINESS would be more respectable a reason. You should remember what this whole thing is really all about.

Merry xmas.

[sanakan]

This entire situation is filthy with bullshit and semantics, and by situation I mean everything in this new phase of releases, not just the live gig. great way to open a post... lets my respect for you drop immediatly...

First of all, Lovely Broken Thing/Pizza For Eggs are released not as tracks, but as continuous mixes that fans have to figure out how to break down without re-encoding just to listen to as they please. What kind of self-indulgent nonsense is that? you could call it "freedom of the creators". the reason it is like this, is because underworld wanted it to be that way! many people repeatedly stated that one of the things they like most about underworld are their live-shows, and how they are mixed together (more or less) seamlessly: and IMHO the new releases try to recreate some of this mix-master-rick magic.

Then it's all but impossible to actually purchase the releases with their retarded payment form that hardly worked for so many people, which only prompted fans to download the music illegally. have you got any numbers? naturally, you only read about people stating problems here on the boards because everyone else doesn't mention that they had no troubles. and for the record: it took me about 10 seconds to buy LBT. no problems at all.

Then there's the business of the JAL To Tokyo EP available on iTunes in Japan ONLY. Even HARDER to get than LBT or Pizza For Eggs. WTF? a gift to their japanese fans (they're very popular over there, as far as i know)? part of the promotion for the electraglide gigs? i don't know.... but try to accept it: there are things in life you can't get, or can't get easily.


I don't know how anybody can look at the live gig situation as anything but outrageous. i do.
Does Underworld, a band whose reputation and adoration are based largely on their live shows, honestly think it's a good idea to alienate so many fans who've been going fucking mental for more official live releases? The monstrous fan-created apparatus for BOOTLEG sharing is all the indication they need that such a limited run is a bad idea. The Pixies, Tori Amos and Pearl Jam are just some bands who've released SEVERAL live albums in an actually useful way and the world doesn't seem to have ended. some other bands making live-albums is in no way an obligation to all others to do the same! IMHO live-albums are most of the time a) to make a quick buck or b) part of some hairy record-label deal.
EE was a very special release, and i think you can't compare it to "traditional" live-albums.

But to be fair, I doubt Underworld anticipated the Metallica-esque misery of certain people on this board. This is an official release only by the thinnest stretch of the imagination, you snobby pedants. Get a fucking grip. This is not Everything, Everything. There is no promotion; there are no ads; there are negligible production costs, if ANY; and there is hardly any actual physical PRODUCT at all. If Underworld made all these new releases available to me in ANY way (that actually WORKS), I would be the first in line to buy each and every one, but the band seems to be aimed squarely at being as up-their-own-ass as possible in terms of "the record business" these days and want to shrink their audience as much as possible.
i think you missed the point here... releasing tracks "internet-only" will be the future! trust me, it with mp3 players as popular as never before, with the whole ipod-hype (which made mp3-players "chic" for the first time) - it will be the standard in some years (i give it at most 5 years). besides that: i don't know if you knew that, but underworld have no record-deal at the moment - they are their own bosses, which they were looking forward to for 15years. combine that with them trying to "go different ways" and "pushing boundaries" and you have the online release of LBT and P4E (and hopefully more).
also karl stated repeatedly that there WILL be a traditional "hardcopy" album - but i think that will come after the film-score is finished.


Those of you who've been fortunate enough to possess this live record, it's your business whether or not you share it with other fans who were quite reasonably unable to do so, but the reasons I am reading are 100% rotten. Sheer LAZINESS would be more respectable a reason. You should remember what this whole thing is really all about. what is it about - betraying your favorite band by rambling about their newest stuff on their fanboard and telling everyone that if they don't give you what they paid for themselves they'll go to hell?
there were two gigs in japan - one of them was sold to attending fans. the other one (the next day) was broadcasted for free on dirtyradio. isn't that enough for you?

[mmm skyscraper]

First of all, Lovely Broken Thing/Pizza For Eggs are released not as tracks, but as continuous mixes that fans have to figure out how to break down without re-encoding just to listen to as they please. What kind of self-indulgent nonsense is that? Underworld were helpful enough to break Dubnobass into separate tracks and trust us to "get it," yeah?

see Juanita/Kiteless/To Dream of Love

[change]

Merry xmas.

Merry xmas Andy, and everyone else. Sounds like Andy needs a big hug for xmas.

[stimpee]

andy k - welcome to the forum. i dont agree with most of your post but thats besides the point.

i understand your frustration. however, 99.9% of the people have had no problems with the downloads, both the tokyo and osaka gigs have been broadcast on underworldlive.com and the Japanese exclusive track (the Paul Woolford remix) was also broadcast on Underworld's radio broadcast in full last weekend. The fans here have also managed to provide a method to separate the EP tracks into separate tracks without re-encoding.

Of course, I think we'd all like to be able to buy all this new material in the stores worldwide but that would require a lot more time and money and a for UW to sort out another distribution/record deal (probably). I don't think we would have got this new material if it wasn't being released in the method it is. As it is, we've got about 80mins of new material in the last 6 or 7 weeks. The Japanese market is massive for Underworld and I guess the JAL EP was an Electraglide promotional thing and the live CD an experiment that looks to have been successful with 7000 or so being sold at the Tokyo and Osaka gigs.

At least Underworld are releasing stuff. A lot of bands would just sit on this stuff and then release an album when they were ready. I can't think of any other band that has been so generous with its fans. We have been getting free stuff from underworldlive and radio shows from the band.

I'm sure I've said something like this in another post.. hmm. Anyway, I'm thankful. Maybe all these different methods of release are experiments. In the meantime, we are getting the tracks by fair means or foul. I think despite the frustrations, the majority of people here are just happy to have new Underworld to listen to.

[oversight]

I can't think of any other band that has been so generous with its fans.I can.. Pearl Jam - hands down..

[Jason Roth]

Pearl Jam boycotting Ticketmaster = crap tours and crap venues for many years.

Anyway, the band has never been the same since Dave Abbruzzine, or whatever the drummers name was, left.

[maurice]

laugh and the world laughs with you, weep and you weep alone,

look @ ebay for some special gems showing up shortly. the kind that won't rip you off.
OK, I've been patient & good. I haven't tried to download this from anywhere but I've been watching an Ebay auction slip far out of my price range. Is there any hope on obtaining a legal CD version of this for us mere non-Japanese mortals?

[potatobroth]

OK, I've been patient & good. I haven't tried to download this from anywhere but I've been watching an Ebay auction slip far out of my price range. Is there any hope on obtaining a legal CD version of this for us mere non-Japanese mortals?

my sentiments exactly. $170 for a cd... its fucking ridiculous.

[mmm skyscraper]

my sentiments exactly. $170 for a cd... its fucking ridiculous.

but it's a win-win for the band and the fans! :D

[BeautifulBurnout]

It'll be like the shoes - the first pair of UW shoes on eBay in my size went for a stupid amount of money - I waited it out and eventually got what I wanted for only 25% more than they were sold in the stores over here (and which was a darn site cheaper than some purists pay for a "regular" pair of Nike's or Adidas in the shops).

Thousands of these CDs were made - more and more will appear on eBay, the non-hardcore fans will get fed-up with silly bids and the prices will come down eventually.

but it's a win-win for the band and the fans! :D
What amazes me though is this: as soon as these CDs were announced, a lot of whining and bitching went on in the forums about the Japanese fans getting it all and us getting nothing. I don't think it was any coincidence that the band decided to do something about it for the fans. But, despite their gallant but ultimately failed attempt to stream the Tokyo gig, and despite the fact that they actually DID stream the Osaka gig in full for us, (sound board, amazing quality), there are still people who seem to take it as some kind of personal insult that the CD has not been released in their country. Bizarre.

[stimpee]

What amazes me though is this: as soon as these CDs were announced, a lot of whining and bitching went on in the forums about the Japanese fans getting it all and us getting nothing. I don't think it was any coincidence that the band decided to do something about it for the fans. But, despite their gallant but ultimately failed attempt to stream the Tokyo gig, and despite the fact that they actually DID stream the Osaka gig in full for us, (sound board, amazing quality), there are still people who seem to take it as some kind of personal insult that the CD has not been released in their country. Bizarre.Actually, the Tokyo gig was streamed also, right after the Lemonworld show a couple of weeks ago. But that was a one-off. So, two soundboard gigs for free. How about that?

BeautifulBurnout: some people will never be satisfied. they have to have everything available now and will moan until it is. some people will moan about the fact that they cant get something but give thanks for the stuff they have got. and finally there are those fans that wait patiently. after all, good things come to those who wait, and havent they already got enough new underworld to listen to?

[BeautifulBurnout]

Actually, the Tokyo gig was streamed also, right after the Lemonworld show a couple of weeks ago. But that was a one-off. So, two soundboard gigs for free. How about that?


Hah! I had no idea! And I was tuned in to the Lemonworld show too. Oh well.

/me removes cheese from ears

[mmm skyscraper]

What amazes me though is this: as soon as these CDs were announced, a lot of whining and bitching went on in the forums about the Japanese fans getting it all and us getting nothing.

I don't really mind that the Japanese fans (or anyone who went to the concert) getting something cool. What bugs me is these "fans" making $130+ on the cds later on. But I guess that's capitalism.

[change]

my sentiments exactly. $170 for a cd... its fucking ridiculous.

How about $341 for a CD? That's twice what potatobroth said was fucking ridiculous and is more than $110 per CD. Eek, I suck as math but I took the time to figure that one out all by myself. Someone REALLY has some disposable income. Anyone else think this is absurd?

[MN-Jeff]

How about $341 for a CD? That's twice what potatobroth said was fucking ridiculous and is more than $110 per CD. Eek, I suck as math but I took the time to figure that one out all by myself. Someone REALLY has some disposable income. Anyone else think this is absurd?

The same thing sort of happened with DJ Shadow and the "Product Placement" cd. Only a limited number were made and sold for about $15, but people were selling cd-r's of the album for up to $99 on eBay. And of course, Shadow received no money from those.

I can easily see the same thing happening here. I'll be honest - I'd pay money for a cd-r of the Tokyo gig, just because I can't hear it anywhere else. If Underworld were smart, they'd have it available to download on their site, like they've done with LBT and PFE. I'd rather give my money to Underworld than some bootlegger, but right now that's just not an option.

[Jan]

My limit was at $60 and i thought THAT was ridiculous!:D

[stimpee]

Is anyone gonna say anything constructive in this thread or are you all just gonna bitch about how you cant get this 3cd set? its not the be-all and end-all you know. Try and ignore stupid people with too much money on ebay for now. Even mattval1 said it was too expensive! :p

chill out.

In the past two months there have been:

2 riverrun projects released.
A Japanese only EP also which is possible to get through official sources (though its not easy).
The Osaka and the Tokyo gigs broadcast on Underworldlive.com.
The Sofia and Benecassim live gigs coming in parts on Underworldlive.com.
A live Underworld set on Underworldlive with lots of new material.
Some bootlegs of some of the gigs from 2005 floating around on the internet.

and what is coming soon?

3rd Riverrun project release (very probably)
More Sofia and Benecassim material
Remixes of Riverrun material on vinyl

and thats just the stuff we KNOW about. Now, there were 1000's of this Tokyo gig pressed. It will take time but these will filter down to the masses eventually. Now if you can stop getting yer knickers in a twist and sit back and enjoy the massive amount of stuff listed above and wait, because nothing is moving any faster by your moaning, then I'm sure something will happen eventually. Be that cheaper copies popping up or mp3s appearing on P2P networks, or even Underworldlive selling some copies to diehard fans at reasonable prices.

To those who want to continue to rant and complain that Underworld haven't been generous enough, please go off and have buttsex with Pearl Jam. Meantime, the rest of us can let Underworld carry on with their experimental releases and fine tune the process until they are satisfied with it, while we enjoy the music.

[goldfish]

How about a sweepstake to see who on the board has begged, borrowed or stolen a copy/download.

I've got a fiver on Stimp.

Having had a good look through this thread, I haven't seen many, if any complaining that Underworld are the problem here.

The CDs were released. They're absolutely unattainable except through people profiteering on eBay. There are some people out in the ether who have copies or mp3s of these discs.

Underworld would not, under any circumstances, lose out if these were made available for download; the only people interested in downloading the live sets are exactly the same people who would rush out and buy them were they made available in the shops.

Not that long ago, the community here would have simply made sure that the love was spread. Making sure that stuff like this is readily available instantly devalues the eBay auctions and undermines those who would horde and resell for profit or sell bootlegs. It's a win-win situation for band and fans alike.

I've got the majority of it; PM me if you want it. If nothing else, at least it's better than the river run drivel.

</de-lurk>

[BeautifulBurnout]

How about a sweepstake to see who on the board has begged, borrowed or stolen a copy/download.

I've got a fiver on Stimp.

Having had a good look through this thread, I haven't seen many, if any complaining that Underworld are the problem here.

The CDs were released. They're absolutely unattainable except through people profiteering on eBay. There are some people out in the ether who have copies or mp3s of these discs.

Underworld would not, under any circumstances, lose out if these were made available for download; the only people interested in downloading the live sets are exactly the same people who would rush out and buy them were they made available in the shops.

Not that long ago, the community here would have simply made sure that the love was spread. Making sure that stuff like this is readily available instantly devalues the eBay auctions and undermines those who would horde and resell for profit or sell bootlegs. It's a win-win situation for band and fans alike.

I've got the majority of it; PM me if you want it. If nothing else, at least it's better than the river run drivel.

</de-lurk>
Nice to see you back Simon

And back to your old self again! :p

Search the forums - I think you will find it difficult to find ANYONE who has said that people should not obtain this through P2P if that is what they want to do. The original thread concerning this simply argued, and correctly so imo, that if you WERE going to download it, the official Underworld forum and, for that matter, RTSR, were not the place to be trading the thing, as it was an official commercial release by the band and did not fall into the usual RTSR "bootleg" category. In the same way that people ought not to be offering to trade any other limited edition commercial materials they have obtained ON HERE. What they do outside of the forum is entirely their concern and no-one elses.

What these threads have mostly been about is people whining because they couldn't get the actual CD's because they have only been made available to the people who attended Electroglide*. Albeit that there are several thousand of those floating about Japan as we speak, they are as rare as rocking-horse shit for the time being.

The gig itself was streamed (as I discovered only this morning) so there are likely to a gzillion copies available in the ether. So what.

It is very nice of you to offer to share it. But once again you seem to have missed the whole point, dear.

ps. Shame you didn't put your fiver on me.

* edit: and the occasional complete stranger demanding that anyone who has it should share it with them because it is their divine birthright or something. :p

[potatobroth]

How about a sweepstake to see who on the board has begged, borrowed or stolen a copy/download.

I've got a fiver on Stimp.

Having had a good look through this thread, I haven't seen many, if any complaining that Underworld are the problem here.

The CDs were released. They're absolutely unattainable except through people profiteering on eBay. There are some people out in the ether who have copies or mp3s of these discs.

Underworld would not, under any circumstances, lose out if these were made available for download; the only people interested in downloading the live sets are exactly the same people who would rush out and buy them were they made available in the shops.

Not that long ago, the community here would have simply made sure that the love was spread. Making sure that stuff like this is readily available instantly devalues the eBay auctions and undermines those who would horde and resell for profit or sell bootlegs. It's a win-win situation for band and fans alike.


absolutely 100% right on the money.

i just want to hear this fantastic set. i dont give a damn about the actual official hard copy. ive never cared about the hard copy where bootlegs are concerned. its not a question of waiting patiently and/or being greedy either. its about wanting to hear music by the band we all love. if there had been a mention that it would be available at some point on UWlive then sure, we'd all happily await it. but guess what, zero mention. so some fans come to the official forums to seek it out. its not that hard to understand really.

the japanese fans would still be left with something special (hardcopy) while the rest of the fans around would be left with something special of their own... the music.

and i agree, goldfish, there are probably people on these forums that have it in both mp3 and cd format. its much easier to say 'be patient' when you have full access to it. :P

[mmm skyscraper]

Is Aquafunk as good as the title? i don't really care if I hear it; just wondering.

[potatobroth]

the official Underworld forum and, for that matter, RTSR, were not the place to be trading the thing, as it was an official commercial release by the band and did not fall into the usual RTSR "bootleg" category.

but that is what RTSR does. it collects bootlegs. just because UW sold a
finite amount doesnt change the fact that this is still a bootleg. not a penny to be lost in the sharing of this show.

What these threads have mostly been about is people whining because they couldn't get the actual CD's because they have only been made available to the people who attended Electroglide

it may be misconstrued this way, but im willing to bet that most people just want to hear the show. mp3 format would appease most if not all of us. for me, its never been a matter of holding the disc in my hand.

The gig itself was streamed (as I discovered only this morning) so there are likely to a gzillion copies available in the ether. So what.

and the Osaka gig is out there. and traded via p2p. so exactly 'so what?' its not causing any strife with uw or trading groups.

It is very nice of you to offer to share it. But once again you seem to have missed the whole point, dear.
i dont think he has missed the point. no one here is arguing that we share RiverRun or Second Toughest which is the way you are making it sound.

[BeautifulBurnout]

but that is what RTSR does. it collects bootlegs. just because UW sold a
finite amount doesnt change the fact that this is still a bootleg. not a penny to be lost in the sharing of this show.

How do you know that UW aren't in the middle of negotiating some kind of deal with a record label to be able to release this worldwide? No-one knows. The fact remains it wasn't a bootleg made by an audience-member, it was a commercially-released sound-board recording of a live gig made by the band for commercial purposes. There was much discussion about this in RTSR before it was agreed that we should not, therefore, be trading it through the RTSR FTP/torrent tracker. But, I reiterate, what individuals choose to do if they have managed to track down copies is entirely a matter for them.

[potatobroth]

How do you know that UW aren't in the middle of negotiating some kind of deal with a record label to be able to release this worldwide? No-one knows. The fact remains it wasn't a bootleg made by an audience-member, it was a commercially-released sound-board recording of a live gig made by the band for commercial purposes. There was much discussion about this in RTSR before it was agreed that we should not, therefore, be trading it through the RTSR FTP/torrent tracker. But, I reiterate, what individuals choose to do if they have managed to track down copies is entirely a matter for them.

and who is to say that UW arent in the midst of a deal with ANY of their bootlegs?

[change]

Is anyone gonna say anything constructive in this thread or are you all just gonna bitch about how you cant get this 3cd set?
...Now if you can stop getting yer knickers in a twist and sit back and enjoy the massive amount of stuff listed above and wait, because nothing is moving any faster by your moaning, then I'm sure something will happen eventually.
Sorry Stimp, I didn't mean to sound like I was moaning, just adding that someone paid $341 for that set. I'm still amazed. Ebay is fun, the auction doubled it's value in the last 10 minutes of bidding. We all want those CD's but someone really went all-in to get it... I wonder what their maximum bid actually was. :)
I'm thrilled for what Underworld has offered up in the last 2 months. I've only acquired LBT and P4E but I love them both. Keep it up guys! I love seeing this experimental side of Underworld becuase unlike many other bands who say they're experimenting, this stuff doesn't suck. It's freaking awesome. I'm eternally optimistic about Underworld and their current state of being. I trust they know what they're doing and they'll keep that great stuff coming at us. :)

[Eikman]

cracking thread.

[Eikman]

what's it all about again? i can't be bothered reading through all that crap...

[BeautifulBurnout]

what's it all about again? i can't be bothered reading through all that crap...

It's all about whether we should allow German Autechre fans to be members of Dirty or not.

[Eikman]

well, obviously "you" do. although i don't think that "you" have the power to decide that :)

[goldfish]

Slight return.

not the place to be trading the thing, as it was an official commercial release by the band and did not fall into the usual RTSR "bootleg" category. In the same way that people ought not to be offering to trade any other limited edition commercial materials they have obtained ON HERE. What they do outside of the forum is entirely their concern and no-one elses.

a) It's not commercial, and b) it's not being 'traded' - hence the complete irrelevance of RTSR (which isn't dirty.org, by the way... the two have always been entirely independent, hence the additional comedy value in bootleg discussions being waved off to another forum entirely).

It's no different to any other soundboard recording. Passing it on is no more or less illegal than, say, Bootleg Babies or broadcasting an internet radio station without paying royalties (probably less legally dubious if the radio station is broadcasting illegally downloaded tunes, eh Eik...).

The gig itself was streamed (as I discovered only this morning) so there are likely to a gzillion copies available in the ether. So what.

So what indeed; who the hell wants a streamed copy?

But once again you seem to have missed the whole point, dear.

Hardly. I'm just not the type of person to pull up the ladder after me, and then moan when I'm asked to put it back down again. But you're alright, jack, I never doubted you would be.

TTFN

[holden]

Thanks for the opinions and the unintentional hilarity, kids!

i'm in agreement with Stimpee on this...we have been given a lot lately. There are things in life we'll never attain. Deal with it. I mean, even our very own numberone superfan is still tracking down rarities. That's how it goes! Pretty soon, people are gonna be clammering for Karl's answering machine messages, or recordings of the toilets flushing in Lemonworld:rolleyes:

If you're steamed by not getting the Tokyo gig or think the whole downloadable prject is wrought with conspiracy, you are taking things way too seriously (even for this, a very devoted fanbase).:)

Holden

[sanakan]

and i thought the "give-me-the-japan-recordings - hype" was over...


we have been given a lot lately. There are things in life we'll never attain. Deal with it. word! full ACK! (as much as i hate that acroym, it has to be said)

If you're steamed by not getting the Tokyo gig or think the whole downloadable prject is wrought with conspiracy, you are taking things way too seriously (even for this, a very devoted fanbase).:)
i don't quite agree with you there... one can (and should) always aspire things - but one should be realistic about them, and put them into context!
as for beeing "offended to death" (can one say this in english, too? at least, the german-speaking will understand :) ) about a single bootleg one didn't catch - that's just plainly ridiculous!

[froopy seal]

It's all about whether we should allow German Autechre fans to be members of Dirty or not.

Is it possible to compensate Autechre-ity by the occasional listening to some crappy, nonetheless labelled "cult", 80s synthie music? In order to gain the benevolence of younger forum members, I'd even go so far as looking at a britney spears poster.

[Eikman]

(probably less legally dubious if the radio station is broadcasting illegally downloaded tunes, eh Eik...).


so....how do you know that? ever heard of official promos and legal downloads from, let's say, bleep.com and kompakt-mp3.net?

[BeautifulBurnout]

I'm just not the type of person to pull up the ladder after me, and then moan when I'm asked to put it back down again. But you're alright, jack, I never doubted you would be.

TTFN
So what you are saying is that if I manage to come across a rip of these CD's, I am somehow morally obliged to advertise it on here and share it with anyone who comes into this forum and asks for it, whether I know them or not, whether they have even posted on here or not (because one guy PM'd me who had registered but never posted), whether I have had any personal dealings with them or not, whether I know what their intentions for the use/sale of those rips are or not?

That's complete piffle and you are just flame-baiting for the sake of it now, Simon.

[stimpee]

Slight return.and how we've missed you.
a) It's not commercial

It's no different to any other soundboard recording. wrong and wrong.

Thats basically it, folks. I'm not gonna be posting anymore in this thread unless I have some good news regarding the Tokyo release, which I hope is soon.

[goldfish]

so....how do you know that? ever heard of official promos and legal downloads from, let's say, bleep.com and kompakt-mp3.net?

Just because you've always said that you download lots of music via P2P and very rarely buy any. Either way, broadcasting it publically without paying royalties is non-legit.

Simon

[goldfish]

So what you are saying is that if I manage to come across a rip of these CD's, I am somehow morally obliged to advertise it on here and share it with anyone who comes into this forum and asks for it, whether I know them or not, whether they have even posted on here or not (because one guy PM'd me who had registered but never posted), whether I have had any personal dealings with them or not, whether I know what their intentions for the use/sale of those rips are or not?

Nope.

Those who are willing and able to share the mix should be allowed to do so, and should be allowed to discuss it - where else would you discuss Underworld than dirty.org? Even if more people cared about RTSR, this is about sharing, not trading.

If anything, people should be encouraged to help undermine skalpers and bootleggers exploiting fans via eBay. Otherwise we head into a situation whereby the only people to benefit are the skalpers and those rich enough to pay silly money on eBay. All this for something which if more readily available would in no reasonably defined fashion harm Underworld, or anyone else for that matter.

If you don't want to, that's entirely up to you.

Simon

[goldfish]

Thats basically it, folks. I'm not gonna be posting anymore in this thread unless I have some good news regarding the Tokyo release, which I hope is soon.

Why not just say what it is and be done with all this? Why the pathetic little games?

As before, I doubt anyone who would download the set wouldn't buy a re-released Tokyo show.

So allowing people, encouraging people to discuss and share the live shows does noone any harm (and would stop people profiteering from Underworld).

Simon

[BeautifulBurnout]

Nope.

Those who are willing and able to share the mix should be allowed to do so, and should be allowed to discuss it - where else would you discuss Underworld than dirty.org? Even if more people cared about RTSR, this is about sharing, not trading.

If anything, people should be encouraged to help undermine skalpers and bootleggers exploiting fans via eBay. Otherwise we head into a situation whereby the only people to benefit are the skalpers and those rich enough to pay silly money on eBay. All this for something which if more readily available would in no reasonably defined fashion harm Underworld, or anyone else for that matter.

If you don't want to, that's entirely up to you.

Simon
1. It is not a mix. It is a collection of CDs recorded by the band and their management to be sold for commercial gain at their Japanese concerts. This is not a "bootleg", sound-board or otherwise, no matter how hard you try to twist the semantics to serve your argument.

2. I reiterate in challenging you to find a post where anyone is banning anyone from sharing or trading this P2P. The matter was discussed by RTSR member and it was decided that because of the commercial nature of the release, RTSR was not the proper place to be sharing it because it crossed a line into trading/sharing commercial product.

3. Dirty.Org is the official Underworld forum. I maintain my position, purely out of respect for the Band, that this is not the place to be openly sharing/trading commercial product. It never has been and it never should be. That is my personal opinion. There is absolutely nothing to stop people pm'ing or emailing each other if they want to enter into discussions. Otherwise, where do you draw the line? What if the next album is produce in different versions for different markets worldwide? Should the Australian CD be ripped and "shared" on here because there are two extra tracks on it? Should the Outer Mongolian DVD Special? It's a slippery slope.

4. People can get hold of this quite easily if they look for it in the right place - you said yourself you had most of it. But people coming in here and demanding that a copy of it be linked for them to download and insulting anyone who has a copy and hasn't shared it with them, (as at least one of the posters on this thread has done), is hardly likely to endear people towards wanting to share the picking of their nose with them, much less anything else.

I, too, am withdrawing from this conversation now. I have said what needs to be said.

Edit: apart from this, which I missed:
Why not just say what it is and be done with all this? Why the pathetic little games?

Simon

Pathetic little games? What IS your issue with people exactly? Sulking for weeks in the background, then bouncing back up to take personal pops at Stimpee, Eike and I? That is pathetic, Simon.

[Flux]

This is worse than the Xbox360 shortage.

Pretty funny how all those 360 boxes are just sitting on Japanese shelves while here in the US people are clawing each other for a little piece of the 360 pie.

The Japanese get everything: 360's, ninjas, udon, square enix, sexy japanese girls, origami, wasabe, sake, nifty gadgets, cute pokemon figurines, pocci, dragon ball z, hentai, robots, ultraman, astro boy, Osaka palace, Nissan Skylines and rare underworld releases. Those bastards.

I'd like to recieve a bootleg copy of a sexy origami japanese girl in a nissan skyline.

[MN-Jeff]

This is worse than the Xbox360 shortage.

Pretty funny how all those 360 boxes are just sitting on Japanese shelves while here in the US people are clawing each other for a little piece of the 360 pie.


That's because the Japanese realize an inferior Microsoft product when they see one. They're all waiting for the Playstation 3. Blu-ray, baby.

[King of Snake]

Why not just say what it is and be done with all this? Why the pathetic little games?



maybe because he has to wait until there's been official word from the band about this? Just a guess.

I'd say there's a big possibility UW will release this set eventually trough UWlive, so let's all just exercise the great power of patience for a while and enjoy the good stuff we've been given already, although it seems for some people nothing is ever good enough. ah well...

[potatobroth]

2. I reiterate in challenging you to find a post where anyone is banning anyone from sharing or trading this P2P. The matter was discussed by RTSR member and it was decided that because of the commercial nature of the release, RTSR was not the proper place to be sharing it because it crossed a line into trading/sharing commercial product.

3. Should the Australian CD be ripped and "shared" on here because there are two extra tracks on it? Should the Outer Mongolian DVD Special? It's a slippery slope.

4. Pathetic little games?

2. I don't view this as a commercial release as well as many others on here. This is the first point in disagreement. This is not 'Everything Everything' we are talking about. This is impossible to purchase. Even if I were to setup a website that had flashing neon arrows pointing to a download of this set, it wouldn't affect UW's bottom line in the slightest of ways. There are other soundboard recordings out there that are traded freely.

3. No. I totally agree with you, BB. But again, if I want to hear those rare tracks I'll know how to get them. I have quite a few Japanese singles (including JAL) and have tracked down countless other rare tracks the legit way. I simply do not see Electraglide as on the same slope as a real commercial release. If it were commercial, I would have some means of purchasing it, which I do not.

4. I think what Simon is so politely saying here is that these little inside information games only tick off the ones that aren't in the know. If you know something then just tell it. Comments like, "unless I have some good news regarding the Tokyo release, which I hope is soon." just make everyone think there is something in the works. And if there is something in the works then dirts wanna know about it -- that is after all why we post in the Underworld forum, to be in the know with the rest of you.

Its no one's duty to share, that much I will always agree with.

[potatobroth]

maybe because he has to wait until there's been official word from the band about this? Just a guess.

I'd say there's a big possibility UW will release this set eventually trough UWlive, so let's all just exercise the great power of patience for a while and enjoy the good stuff we've been given already, although it seems for some people nothing is ever good enough. ah well...

I don't want to sound ungrateful or whatever, but its these comments that make me angry. It means you know something that I don't. And it comes across as you saying, "well i know there is something planned and you dont. YOU exercise patience while i sit comfortably with my knowledge of whats to come." Now, I've known most of you long enough to know that you don't have a mean bone in your body, but thats how it reads. :) There are a lot of newcomers here and they might not know how UW does things with their live site.

You can't say, "be patient" and then go pop in your copy of the Electraglide show. See what I mean?

nothing is ever good enough. ah well...
Can you honestly tell me that you don't have a copy of this show yet?

[stimpee]

I heard this show when it was broadcast on the net radio after the lemonworld set. all i know is what i have been told and this is that there is going to be some news on this. what difference this makes to you guys i dont know. now you know what i know.

tune into dirtyradio now ;)

[potatobroth]

I heard this show when it was broadcast on the net radio after the lemonworld set. all i know is what i have been told and this is that there is going to be some news on this. what difference this makes to you guys i dont know. now you know what i know.

tune into dirtyradio now ;)

i am no longer able to listen to DirtyRadio as it is blocked at my office. i used to but cant now.

im not saying you know Stimp, im saying it SEEMS that you do. and thats why people keep asking.

[stimpee]

well, i dont know. im not in some elite club. i dont have access to the lemonworld vaults. i dont have a big red telephone that flashes when rick and karl ring. im just a moderator here to make sure the rules of this forum are obeyed, to help, and pass on information that i get.

[King of Snake]

I don't want to sound ungrateful or whatever, but its these comments that make me angry. It means you know something that I don't. And it comes across as you saying, "well i know there is something planned and you dont. YOU exercise patience while i sit comfortably with my knowledge of whats to come." Now, I've known most of you long enough to know that you don't have a mean bone in your body, but thats how it reads. :) There are a lot of newcomers here and they might not know how UW does things with their live site.

You can't say, "be patient" and then go pop in your copy of the Electraglide show. See what I mean?


Can you honestly tell me that you don't have a copy of this show yet?
please don't be angry :)
Sorry if my post was unclear, although I don't really see how you can read what you do in what I wrote, but it doesn't matter.
I don't have some secret info that you don't, I'm just going by what people wrote in this thread and in this case I was going by Stimpee's comment

I'm not gonna be posting anymore in this thread unless I have some good news regarding the Tokyo release, which I hope is soon
I interpreted that as that some news regarding this topic would be coming soon, but he doesn't know anything else besides that. (and he confirmed this to be true in a post just before) Which is why I thought it a bit unfair for goldfish to suggest Stimpee actually does know but isn't telling because he likes to play games, or something.
I don't have the recording, and I know as much as you do, which is that some news is coming but we won't know what it is until we hear it, and stimpee can't tell us because he won't know what it is until he hears it either.

[groovypanda]

This is worse than the Xbox360 shortage.

Pretty funny how all those 360 boxes are just sitting on Japanese shelves while here in the US people are clawing each other for a little piece of the 360 pie.

The Japanese get everything: 360's, ninjas, udon, square enix, sexy japanese girls, origami, wasabe, sake, nifty gadgets, cute pokemon figurines, pocci, dragon ball z, hentai, robots, ultraman, astro boy, Osaka palace, Nissan Skylines and rare underworld releases. Those bastards.

I'd like to recieve a bootleg copy of a sexy origami japanese girl in a nissan skyline.thank you chris :D

you rock :cool:

[froopy seal]

The Japanese get everything: [...].

I'd like to recieve a bootleg copy of a sexy origami japanese girl in a nissan skyline.
But there's a heavy downside: kitsch. All that fancy "cute" stuff you automatically love when you're Japanese (resistance is futile, it's in the breast milk as well as natural and chemical substitutes).

Which doesn't mean I wouldn't welcome the origami girl... after all, she's got the Electraglide cd!

[polar_action]

It's lovely to know that dirty.org is like a real family.

We argue, we fight, we fall in love, we knock on the door when someoone is in the loo and your burstin'.....

I'll tell you what though....

That Underworld... they're pretty cool eh?

[goldfish]

1. It is not a mix. It is a collection of CDs recorded by the band and their management to be sold for commercial gain at their Japanese concerts. This is not a "bootleg", sound-board or otherwise, no matter how hard you try to twist the semantics to serve your argument.

I don't care if it's a bootleg or not (if anyone's playing semantics here, it's you). 'Commercial' but unattainable is still unattainable.

2. I reiterate in challenging you to find a post where anyone is banning anyone from sharing or trading this P2P. The matter was discussed by RTSR member and it was decided that because of the commercial nature of the release, RTSR was not the proper place to be sharing it because it crossed a line into trading/sharing commercial product.

Again, RTSR has no relevance here. This isn't RTSR.

Obviously it's nice that you're not trying to prevent anyone from doing what they want outside of dirty, but it rather misses the point. It's discussion that's been banned.

3. Dirty.Org is the official Underworld forum. I maintain my position, purely out of respect for the Band, that this is not the place to be openly sharing/trading commercial product. It never has been and it never should be. That is my personal opinion. There is absolutely nothing to stop people pm'ing or emailing each other if they want to enter into discussions. Otherwise, where do you draw the line? What if the next album is produce in different versions for different markets worldwide? Should the Australian CD be ripped and "shared" on here because there are two extra tracks on it? Should the Outer Mongolian DVD Special? It's a slippery slope.

Bullshit, for a number of reasons. Firstly, this has always been a place where rare Underworld releases have been shared to people unable to get hold of them otherwise (unless you're encouraging eBay profiteering, which I'm sure you're not, are you?). Secondly, if Underworld or any band fuck around with different releases in different countries, you're damned straight that this is a place where that inequality should be levelled up. If I buy an album, I expect to get the full album, not half an album.

4. People can get hold of this quite easily if they look for it in the right place - you said yourself you had most of it. But people coming in here and demanding that a copy of it be linked for them to download and insulting anyone who has a copy and hasn't shared it with them, (as at least one of the posters on this thread has done), is hardly likely to endear people towards wanting to share the picking of their nose with them, much less anything else.

Again, you miss the point. If you can't or won't share, that's fine; but who are you to stop those that want to? Generally there are plenty of people willing and able to share the wealth, but are now being told that they can't do that.

I still find it bizarre that everyone should be coming over all virtuous-like, whilst dirty.org is happily distributing music illegally through dirty radio... talk about hypocrisy!

Pathetic little games? What IS your issue with people exactly?

Others have already covered this. If you know something, say it, if you don't, shut up. If nothing else, if there's a chance that the show will be released through underworldlive, why not just say so and so prevent some poor sod blowing £50 via eBay on the CD, thereby also injecting a hint of reality into the prices being charged. It's just common sense that everyone here should be old and ugly enough to understand. This entire thread would've been killed stone dead if someone, I don't care who, had said 'Underworld are investigating providing the live show via Underworldlive - be patient for a few weeks or two and we'll know more'.

Sulking for weeks in the background, then bouncing back up to take personal pops at Stimpee, Eike and I? That is pathetic, Simon.

:D

Simon

[BeautifulBurnout]

I don't care if it's a bootleg or not (if anyone's playing semantics here, it's you). 'Commercial' but unattainable is still unattainable.



Again, RTSR has no relevance here. This isn't RTSR.

Obviously it's nice that you're not trying to prevent anyone from doing what they want outside of dirty, but it rather misses the point. It's discussion that's been banned.



Bullshit, for a number of reasons. Firstly, this has always been a place where rare Underworld releases have been shared to people unable to get hold of them otherwise (unless you're encouraging eBay profiteering, which I'm sure you're not, are you?). Secondly, if Underworld or any band fuck around with different releases in different countries, you're damned straight that this is a place where that inequality should be levelled up. If I buy an album, I expect to get the full album, not half an album.



Again, you miss the point. If you can't or won't share, that's fine; but who are you to stop those that want to? Generally there are plenty of people willing and able to share the wealth, but are now being told that they can't do that.

I still find it bizarre that everyone should be coming over all virtuous-like, whilst dirty.org is happily distributing music illegally through dirty radio... talk about hypocrisy!



Others have already covered this. If you know something, say it, if you don't, shut up. If nothing else, if there's a chance that the show will be released through underworldlive, why not just say so and so prevent some poor sod blowing £50 via eBay on the CD, thereby also injecting a hint of reality into the prices being charged. It's just common sense that everyone here should be old and ugly enough to understand. This entire thread would've been killed stone dead if someone, I don't care who, had said 'Underworld are investigating providing the live show via Underworldlive - be patient for a few weeks or two and we'll know more'.



:D

Simon
Either you can't read what has been said over and over in this thread and not just by me, or you don't want to.

Or you can read but can't understand what you are reading.

Or you can understand what you are reading but want a fight anyway.

You said people were trying to ban the sharing. So I and others pointed out (and if you had read back through the whole thread you would have picked up immediately) that no-one was banning this being shared.

Oh dear - proved wrong. So you move the goalposts again and say "ah, but this is no different than Bootleg Babies or any other bootlegs" and take a pop at Eike in the process. So it is explained that it is, in fact, not a bootleg, it is a commercial product.

Oh dear - wrong again. So you move the goalposts again and say "ah, but you are trying to ban discussion".

Nobody has banned discussion. Jesus, this thread wouldn't be here anymore if they had. Nobody has banned anything except PUTTING UP LINKS ON HERE TO SHARE COMMERCIAL UNDERWORLD MATERIAL. Which has, I think you will find, always been the case.

Nobody knows anything you don't, dear, unless it is Scott or Yannick, and they are certainly not sharing their secrets with l'il ole me if they do. I dunno where all this conspiracy theory is coming from.

Whatever. I'm wasting my breath arguing with you. You've had your fun now Simon. Go pick a fight somewhere where you are going to win without moving the goalposts of your argument every five minutes.

*New Year's Resolution - must stop feeding the trolls*

[froopy seal]

Bullshit, for a number of reasons. Firstly, this has always been a place where rare Underworld releases have been shared to people unable to get hold of them otherwise [...].

Is this true? I haven't been around as long as others but this sounds quite different from what stimpee, BB, bss etc. post nowadays.

Secondly, if Underworld or any band fuck around with different releases in different countries, you're damned straight that this is a place where that inequality should be levelled up. If I buy an album, I expect to get the full album, not half an album.

Well, this is an issue of releasing policy. It's not on us to decide what _should_ be on an album.

[...] If you can't or won't share, that's fine; but who are you to stop those that want to? Generally there are plenty of people willing and able to share the wealth, but are now being told that they can't do that.

Ever heard of copyright laws? They might seem annoying and you don't have to like them but an official fan forum has to respect them.

Others have already covered this. If you know something, say it, if you don't, shut up.

Ever heard of free speech (including the right not to speak)? I can't see why you get so pissed off for nothing.

If nothing else, if there's a chance that the show will be released through underworldlive, why not just say so and so prevent some poor sod blowing £50 via eBay on the CD, thereby also injecting a hint of reality into the prices being charged. It's just common sense that everyone here should be old and ugly enough to understand. This entire thread would've been killed stone dead if someone, I don't care who, had said 'Underworld are investigating providing the live show via Underworldlive - be patient for a few weeks or two and we'll know more'.

That info would be very welcome. Although there is no such announcement, the dirties shouldn't take vigilante justice.

[Aziz]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Underworld-Live-at-Electraglide-05-3CD-VERY-RARE_W0QQitemZ4820911994QQcategoryZ1577QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem

[potatobroth]

grrrrr!

those look real nice too. i'd totally have purchaed them off the site.

[Dirty0900]

Fucking shocking

[big screen satellite]

ouchie...seeing as the last one on ebay went for $340...i suppose there will be takers (suckers) for this...

but like we've already covered 7,000+ copies, potentially, isn't rare...its just that most of them are concentrated on one continent...

well good luck to those bidding on it...

[change]

That's a lot o' money. Was Osaka released on CD too? I heard the show last weekend and it seemed shorter. The recording I half-assed from dirty radio is only about 120 minutes. Perhaps I had a bad stream or just missed part of it, but why aren't people talking so much about Osaka too?

[BeautifulBurnout]

Osaka wasn't released on CD, no.

The Tokyo gig was announced as being on CD only for those attending the Electraglide gigs. UW tried to stream it live through the underworldlive.com website (if you listen to the live recording, in fact, somewhere in there Karl gives a shout out to all the Dirties listening on the wonderful internet :D ). As the streaming didn't work for Tokyo, many industrious people managed to get it together for Osaka instead, and that gig was streamed live on uwlive.com.

The Tokyo gig was then streamed after the Lemonworld broadcast just before Christmas. By that time, mp3s of the gig were floating around the intarweb (whence this thread).

As to why people are not talking so much about Osaka, I couldn't possibly comment. ;)

[Jan]

ouchie...seeing as the last one on ebay went for $340...i suppose there will be takers (suckers) for this...
It's the same copy...:p

[lloyd]

Yeah this is the winner of the earlier auction, trying to win his money back after copying it I presume ;)

[big screen satellite]

seriously, is this the original version being resold???....bonkers...i suspect he will sell it again though...




Anyway, I have an original copy, but i'm not sharing it because i believe that would be wrong - especially as the CD states all copyright details...(and i'm selfishly glad i have an original copy :) ) and i'd never sell my copy, as its part of my collection (mp3, and digital files mean nothing to me)

i wouldn't share AHDO or DUBNO, and likewise won't be sharing this....

its a fairly large pressed release (7000+ copies?), albeit available only in another country, with stipulations on buying it, but nonetheless, thems were the rules...

UW have released specific albums with extras all over the world, and the stipulation of those are that you kinda need to be in that country to buy it....(or fork out and import it) - i know this album wasn't on general sale, but thems the breaks...take it or leave it...

I want the Tomato / Underworld created PS2 'game' WISP, but haven't managed to buy it yet, mainly because it wasn't released in the UK (i know i can get it and probably will do at some point), and I was fairly annoyed that we didn't see it here, likewise the Japan Only DVD edition of 1992-2002, but we have to accept these conditions - UW operate in different markets all over the world, and we have to accept their 'marketing' decisions, and stop whining about it...there really is not a lot we can do - as we've moaned about 'foriegn' releases before, and our complains have never really been heeded (US BF Singles Box Set) (Aus AHDO Edition) (Logic 3 x 12" PG & BS) (there are loads of examples of county only releases in limited quantites)

someone will certainly break the copy rules on this release, and it will turn up as a version direct from the disc, but i think that's up to the individual sharing it, after all sharing 'copyright' material i still illegal, despite everyone knowingly doing it or leeching stuff from P2P sites...

Being as this is a pretty loyal and important forum, linked to from UW's main website - i think we should be a bit more respectful to the laws of copyright

i think if you want to offer up opinions on the release of this we should be free to do so, but blatantly offering up links to sites or copying this disc and sharing the information here kind of goes against the 'ethics' of this entire forum....just my opinion, but i think thats how it should be.

Mattval1

[potatobroth]

he'll make his money back. and it sucks.

[potatobroth]

someone will certainly break the copy rules on this release, and it will turn up as a version direct from the disc, but i think that's up to the individual sharing it, after all sharing 'copyright' material i still illegal, despite everyone knowingly doing it or leeching stuff from P2P sites...

Being as this is a pretty loyal and important forum, linked to from UW's main website - i think we should be a bit more respectful to the laws of copyright

my guess is that it says, "not for resale" on it as well :P

[big screen satellite]

my guess is that it says, "not for resale" on it as well :P

besides the graphics / fonts - it actually says the following on all three discs:

(p)&(c) 2005 underworldlive.com (t/a smith hyde productions).
the copyright in the sound recordings are owned by smith hyde productions.
this label copy is the subject to copyright protection and is owned by smith hyde productions. all rights reserved.
all rights of the producers and the owner of the recorded work reserved.
unauthorised copying, hiring, renting, public perfomance and broadcasting of this record prohibited.
all songs written by underworld and published by sherlock holmes music ltd / chrysalis music inc.

which is pretty much standard for all commercially available materials

we should take note of the part that says unauthorised - which basically means if you want to copy, play, broadcast this disc - you need to seek authority and that it appears would be smith hyde productions...

so if you wanna publish this, best speak to the head men...

its not a promotional item and hence cannot be labelled with 'not for resale' because the item had to be purchased - and as such is owned by the buyer who within the realms outside of what is listed on the disc - can basically do what they like with it, this is unlike most promotional items which are sent out free and are usually as stated as the 'property of <the record company>' and as such they could request the 'promo' to be returned at any time...

promo items are considered the property of the company that produces them if it is stated on the disc / vinyl....

[thee carp dreamer]

p.s. i've heard this performance for the first time today. it's amazing. it's wonderful. it's their best show. it has more improvs than the european club gig.

:)

i will be a happy man when underworld come for a uk tour.

[potatobroth]

p.s. i've heard this performance for the first time today. it's amazing. it's wonderful. it's their best show. it has more improvs than the european club gig.

certainly an amazing set, no doubt. i love the flow, reminds me of the old dazzer days.

[big screen satellite]

certainly an amazing set, no doubt. i love the flow, reminds me of the old dazzer days.

as opposed to the 'new' dazza days...;)

i've just been listeing to this in the car...the mixing / production is amazing - like you say the flow is great (wonder if it was polished post gig a bit?)

[potatobroth]

as opposed to the 'new' dazza days...;)

i've just been listeing to this in the car...the mixing / production is amazing - like you say the flow is great (wonder if it was polished post gig a bit?)

sound levels maybe, but i dont think any mixing was done after the fact like on Everything Everything. For EE, the songs were taken from three separate shows, so mixing was a must, but Electraglide was taken from one straight show so it was mixed live is my guess.

Nothing too complicated being done yet it sounds amazing. Just an extra set of hands can really help in that dept. i think.

The mix from JAL -> Skyscraper -> Kittens -> Morrocan Meatballs -> Juanita is VERY nice.

[big screen satellite]

The mix from JAL -> Skyscraper -> Kittens -> Morrocan Meatballs -> Juanita is VERY nice.


THAT was the bit i was listening to today...i'd have never have thought of bringing Kittens into Skyscraper...but it works brilliantly...

[Future Proof]

So, let me get my facts straight here, UW sells for 2 nights in friggin JAPAN a deck recording of a show of theirs? And doesn't put it on uwlive for a pay d/l? Doesn't mention anything along the lines of it soon being available for pay d/l? Uhm... excuse the fuck out of me but, if any sanctimonious sheep here is going to toot the "Well R&K aren't to be ripped off" when they know fucking well that the $10 cd is going to sell for $50 on EBay because of profiteering, then you need to pull your head out of your ass and figure out who's side you're on, R&K's who we know are damn fine off financially or the people that've had their backs for years, who do NOT have the money they do, and don't deserve a 3-choice option of A.) Fly to Japan, B.) Get ripped off on EBay or C.) don't hear it at all.

Awww fuck it, I choose D. And option D. would be to download this illegally, therefore prohibiting R&K from making anything from the sale. However if they would like, they could send me their address and maybe I'll mail them a pic of my ass. ;)

There is nothing any of you can say of any counterpoint, having an easy point-of-access to sell music is why uwlive.com is up -- this idea to release this 7,000 run album was a bad idea because it alienates people that have hard jobs and can't just decide they're flying to fucking JAPAN -- and it's quite obvious that R&K don't really care if they piss anyone off.

So, maybe the forum isn't the place to share this "release", HOWEVER... if anyone wants to become my pen pal, my e-mail is producer9k2k5@yahoo.com -- write anytime.

[BeautifulBurnout]

Oh for heaven's sake.

Here we go again. :rolleyes:

I am amazed that people can read a thread that basically says "do what you like off the forums but don't put up links to this or offer share commercially-released music on here publicly please" and go off on a bloody rant about it in the first place.

But to then have a whole thread of gzillions of posts of argument, discussion, rant and counter-rant which results in the show being broadcast ALL LAST WEEKEND on Dirty Radio, then STILL come along a week later and decide to have a rant about it really takes the biscuit. Give it a rest people, for heaven's sake. Or start a thread entitled "Things I want to whine about today" so I will know to avoid it if I am SICK TO MY BACK TEETH OF HEARING PEOPLE WHINGING LIKE BABIES!

And Future Proof: Do you have any idea just how petulant you are making yourself sound here? "R & K have money and I don't. I have to work hard for my buck, I have supported them, they can have a picture of my ass" etc. etc.

R & K don't care if they piss anyone off? Hell's teeth, what more do you want them to do? They tried to stream the bloody thing live on the night. That failed, so they streamed from Osaka the next night instead, AND streamed Tokyo following their Lemonworld session, AND it was streamed again several times last weekend. I guess you want them to come to your house, play a gig in your yard for you and your friends and bring you signed copies of the thing aswell. But then I am sure you would find something else to moan about, like Karl wearing the wrong shirt or Rick not playing the version of Nuxx you want.

I give up, I really do. This is bordering on the insane now.

Thank you.

[sanakan]

Oh for heaven's sake.

Here we go again. :rolleyes:

exactly what i thought...
but i didn't even have the energy to write a lengthy reply. so thanks gurl for taking care of that :)

[Future Proof]

Oh for heaven's sake.

Here we go again. :rolleyes:

I am amazed that people can read a thread that basically says "do what you like off the forums but don't put up links to this or offer share commercially-released music on here publicly please" and go off on a bloody rant about it in the first place.

But to then have a whole thread of gzillions of posts of argument, discussion, rant and counter-rant which results in the show being broadcast ALL LAST WEEKEND on Dirty Radio, then STILL come along a week later and decide to have a rant about it really takes the biscuit. Give it a rest people, for heaven's sake. Or start a thread entitled "Things I want to whine about today" so I will know to avoid it if I am SICK TO MY BACK TEETH OF HEARING PEOPLE WHINGING LIKE BABIES!

And Future Proof: Do you have any idea just how petulant you are making yourself sound here? "R & K have money and I don't. I have to work hard for my buck, I have supported them, they can have a picture of my ass" etc. etc.

R & K don't care if they piss anyone off? Hell's teeth, what more do you want them to do? They tried to stream the bloody thing live on the night. That failed, so they streamed from Osaka the next night instead, AND streamed Tokyo following their Lemonworld session, AND it was streamed again several times last weekend. I guess you want them to come to your house, play a gig in your yard for you and your friends and bring you signed copies of the thing aswell. But then I am sure you would find something else to moan about, like Karl wearing the wrong shirt or Rick not playing the version of Nuxx you want.

I give up, I really do. This is bordering on the insane now.

Thank you.

Ladies and gentlemen, that's how it's done. :)

Petulant? Couldn't care less. Unreasonable? Don't much care about that either. But what did R&K think would happen to those disks? Did a thought ever run through their minds that perhaps maybe, just maybe, people would buy that and spit on their music, their legacy, their ethos in general by doing something like selling it on EBay for $350? In case you've forgotten, we're talking about the same band that has a million and one bootlegs floating around and couldn't have cared less.

Of course, the counterpoint to that is "Well people don't have to spend that" but the thing is that people will spend that kind of money, and I contend that it didn't have to happen. So before you run off insulting me missy, you'd better understand that to me, this isn't a debatable issue. If we were in the early 1900's and we were talking about Picasso paintings that couldn't be mass-produced then that's another story. If however you're going to tell me that a band like Underworld should drop 7000 disks, turning their backs on their website which was designed entirely for delivering music and making profit just so some of the lucky 7,000 can bust a fat and greedy lick on the more deserving, then I'm going to tell you to go find a zombie movie that's getting ready to film because you're already dressed for the part.

Yeah, there's insanity floating around here alright, that's why I'm avoiding the kool-ade... bunch of cultists. How freaking retarded of you to rather advocate file-sharing and breaking laws than questioning what the bright idea was here.

Sanakan, anyone else... I'll be on for another 15 minutes, tomorrow looks bad but I can pencil you in for Sunday when we begin our debate of artist's rights vs. the bullshit and wanton act of creating a product that will do nothing but create a greed-driven market for anyone looking to shop. GOOD NIGHT NOW.

[stauff]

... just so some of the lucky 7,000 can bust a fat and greedy lick on the more deserving....

I'm sorry, you may or not have made some good points but I just couldn't get past the words "bust a fat".

I haven't heard anyone referring to "cracking a fat" since high school and this sentence was just too hilarious in that context.

- Matthew

[BeautifulBurnout]

Ladies and gentlemen, that's how it's done. :)
Whatever.


Petulant? Couldn't care less. Unreasonable? Don't much care about that either. But what did R&K think would happen to those disks? Did a thought ever run through their minds that perhaps maybe, just maybe, people would buy that and spit on their music, their legacy, their ethos in general by doing something like selling it on EBay for $350? In case you've forgotten, we're talking about the same band that has a million and one bootlegs floating around and couldn't have cared less.
Did a thought ever cross your mind that while R & K maintain total artistic control, their control over the marketing and copyrighting relating to their music might be less than total? Didn't the fiasco around the Artist Formerly Known as Prince teach you anything about the way the music industry operates? Oh well.

Of course, the counterpoint to that is "Well people don't have to spend that" but the thing is that people will spend that kind of money, and I contend that it didn't have to happen.
And I contend that that is neither here nor there. The band and their management/record label did a marketing exercise in Japan. 7,000 is not all that limited an edition - jeez, I remember having 12" singles when I was a teenager that were limited to 1,000 pressings. Are the band to be held responsible for the fact that there are people out there crazy enough to spend $340 dollars on one of their discs? I don't think so, you do. Once again, whatever.

So before you run off insulting me missy, you'd better understand that to me, this isn't a debatable issue.
Fine. Let's not debate it then.

If we were in the early 1900's and we were talking about Picasso paintings that couldn't be mass-produced then that's another story. If however you're going to tell me that a band like Underworld should drop 7000 disks, turning their backs on their website which was designed entirely for delivering music and making profit just so some of the lucky 7,000 can bust a fat and greedy lick on the more deserving, then I'm going to tell you to go find a zombie movie that's getting ready to film because you're already dressed for the part.
Yes. Lovely image that, me being a mindless zombie. :) Once again, I don't think R & K can be held personally responsible for people trying to make a killing out of this. Any more than Van Gogh is responsible for people paying multi millions for his work. There will be people out there who are willing to pay stupid money just to own this. There will be people out there with available cash who will buy it just because they think they can make a fast buck by reselling it. Either way, that is the way of the world no matter where you look around you. If you are saying that capitalism is wrong, that is a whole different debate that we can have over on World.

Yeah, there's insanity floating around here alright, that's why I'm avoiding the kool-ade... bunch of cultists. How freaking retarded of you to rather advocate file-sharing and breaking laws than questioning what the bright idea was here.
Nice to be thought of as a retarded cultist too. :) Funny as fuck, in fact.

There are three ways to address this issue. Either the record company release the 3 CD set internationally, which doesn't seem to be on the cards. Or R & K release the music for purchase through UWLive, which they haven't given any indication of doing. Or they offer it for free, which has already been done.

Sanakan, anyone else... I'll be on for another 15 minutes, tomorrow looks bad but I can pencil you in for Sunday when we begin our debate of artist's rights vs. the bullshit and wanton act of creating a product that will do nothing but create a greed-driven market for anyone looking to shop. GOOD NIGHT NOW.
I thought you said this wasn't debatable? Hmm. Confused now! Must be my zombie brainwashed state. :p

[Future Proof]

I just don't understand how anyone can look at what's happening on EBay, knowing that fans are getting ripped off and that R&K stopped making money when they sold the 7,000th copy, and feel good about it. The only ones that I can see willing to find good out of this are people that have an unwaivering devotion to these guys. I'm sorry if the zombie thing was mean but like I said, my thoughts on this issue are sentiments that I am very well comfortable in feeling, against the grain or not. I feel that it was very mean-spirited, what R&K or Underworld enterprises or whoever did with this. And I'm very non-plussed with them going around at about the time of their revamped website launch, priding themselves on being innovative 21st century musicians and then having a launch that echoes their early 90's launches when they didn't have a fan base, nor did they have a lot of money to work with. So, to me you're either on the fan's side or the artist's, and an artist doesn't have to do anything they don't want to but if you make a conscious decision to chare your music and you have fans all over the globe, continuing to win the hearts of those fans does not involve dropping 7,000 disks on an island 3,000 miles from the U.S. and further (maybe? Don't know but damn far away) from Europe.

Actually, I don't really know what you're talking about concerning Prince. But I'm interested to hear about it.

And you're not retarded, but what we are and what we do are two very different things sometimes. For example, see any of my posts. :D But my apologies -- however, your response to this issue seems to be completely nonsensical and dodging the responsibility that a fan, a consumer has. It's ok to voice your disapproval! But you can't do that on a band's forums (ANY band's forums) because of the tunnel-vision that a lot of the posters have. And that I think is complete rubbish. If you were a big fan of Sony and bought a new TV from them and it blew up as soon as you plugged it in you'd complain right? And that's a world-wide and successful company; we're talking about a band that does not make middle-of-the-road music pandering to a small subset of a small subset of the whole worldwide music-appreciating audience. To me it's a social responsibility.

And stauff, I'm 30... and as much as I let my inner-child run rampant on the forums sometimes I fail to hide the fact that I'm getting older. :)

[BeautifulBurnout]

I didn't say you couldn't voice your disapproval, hon.

I just said I was fed up of reading the same thing rehashed again and again. And I still am.

Clearly we are not going to agree on this. But maybe that is because I am old and jaded now and accept the things I can't change, but resolve to change the things I have some power over. ;)

[solmagrez]

HI all, fairly new to posting on these boards, but been reading a long while. Thought I would go full circle back to the orginal topic and ask a question about the different tracklists. Obviously 2 versions of the gig are out there: the live soundboard, over 2 hours beginning with NU Train and the 3 hour - 3 CD set that we heard this past weekend, beginning with JAL. So we now have two different orders of tracks and missing tracks on the 2 hr set. Anyone know the correct order for the entire 3 hour concert?

Sorry if this has been discussed before.

Thanks

M

[Future Proof]

Clearly we are not going to agree on this. But maybe that is because I am old and jaded now and accept the things I can't change, but resolve to change the things I have some power over. ;)

Hey now, don't call yourself old -- I'm not too terribly far behind you!

What's there to change out of this? Maybe along that paradigm we're not all that dissimilar, it's just that you have a more gentle approach and I go off like a bull in a china closet. :D

But understand that the first time I heard anything about this release or even saw this thread was last night -- I understand that you've been knee-deep in involvement in this thread and you're tired of dealing with it but that wouldn't have mattered any in regards to me posting or what I posted. So instead of going back and forth let's just not because in the end it matters little.

[Professor]

this thread has 14 pages.

[potatobroth]

HI all, fairly new to posting on these boards, but been reading a long while. Thought I would go full circle back to the orginal topic and ask a question about the different tracklists. Obviously 2 versions of the gig are out there: the live soundboard, over 2 hours beginning with NU Train and the 3 hour - 3 CD set that we heard this past weekend, beginning with JAL. So we now have two different orders of tracks and missing tracks on the 2 hr set. Anyone know the correct order for the entire 3 hour concert?

Sorry if this has been discussed before.

Thanks

M


Hi Som,
Actually those are two separate concerts. Underworld played back-to-back nights in Osaka and in Toyko. So the Nu Train set is from the Osaka show (2hrs long) and the JAL set is from Tokyo (3hrs long)

Hope this helps, and welcome :D

[thee carp dreamer]

i would severely discourage anyone from asking me in a pm how to obtain a copy of the recording of this gig.

:rolleyes:

[solmagrez]

Really,

Got it - I got confused by the Electraglide label to both as they played on dirty radio, and not focusing on osaka vs Tokyo or the date for that matter.

Thanks much for the reply and hope the bickering is over about this.

BTW I saw the 3 CD set for sale on ebay going for $341 - unbelieveable. Would love to buy it but not at that price.

Again thanks, and thanks for the welcome.

M

[Future Proof]

Hey, anyone wanna recommend me a p2p server that I might have success finding this on? Limewire doesn't have it, although I can't say I'm shocked either.