Bells & Circles Ft. Iggy Pop

[lloyd]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmJWD9jQvhc
Underworld & Iggy Pop - Bells & Circles

[holden]

Whoa. That was unexpected and brilliant. Banging track with some bizarre spoken word.

[Dirty0900]

https://uwip.lnk.to/YTBAC

[joethelion]

...and again - nothing on iTunes

(edit)

Well, at least you can download it via Amazon... I was worried it was going to be a streaming-only track.

(edit 2)

Okay - I guess I was just being impatient. It's on iTunes / Apple Music.

[khouri]

Fun backing track by Rick and Karl utterly ruined by a gross, sexist rant from Iggy Pop. I can’t believe how vastly misfired that was.

[TheBang]

Available for purchase on Google Play and Amazon Music. I imagine it will make its way to other retailers soon.

[woofmute]

not too sold on the vocal track but i like the rest of the sounds.

[darktrain]

Single up on Apple Music. Art says Tea Time Dub Encounters...album title?!
https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/bells-circles-single/1386840122

[iamneorev]

Tea Time Dub Encounters
This is on the YouTube artwork. Album title?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Awqd76nNeM

[holden]

Downloaded from Napster.

Not crazy about some of Iggy's sentiments, but, dang... Rick can still bring it with the beats and bass!

[Lx_Nen]

I kept thinking of The Chemical Brothers "Golden Path"

[jetpig]

I wish Iggy's vocals didn't distract me so much from every other part of this fantastic song. I don't know quite how I feel about Iggy's part, yet, but it's definitely conflicted.

[potatobroth]

Fun backing track by Rick and Karl utterly ruined by a gross, sexist rant from Iggy Pop. I can’t believe how vastly misfired that was.

Uh oh. With ya there, this was a poor poor effort. Drums we nice tho.

[potatobroth]

Whoa. That was unexpected and brilliant. Banging track with some bizarre spoken word.

This was Iggy getting in front of the #metoo movement :P

The track really went nowhere. Drums were nice but with little to no variation. Hope this was a little One-off type of thing.

[Dirty Saint]

Love it.

Iggy Pop bring something different to the party:D

[holden]

I'm not defending him, but Mr. Pop is of another time. The situations he describes are antiquated and inappropriate. It comes across as jaded and dated and not defensible.

As for the music... Listen again, and hear the build. I'm of the opinion that we haven't heard this level of sustained techno bombast since The Riverrun.

[jetpig]

As for the music... Listen again, and hear the build. I'm of the opinion that we haven't heard this level of sustained techno bombast since The Riverrun.


THIS! You just jogged my memory! This echoes the unreleased 2005 live track from Heineken I think with Rick singing, "Sometimes all I can do is count...."

[TheBang]

Available in FLAC on TIDAL here:

http://tidal.com/us/store/album/89140096

Bit expensive though. I imagine it will be available in FLAC soon on 7digital and Qobuz.

[potatobroth]

I kept thinking of The Chemical Brothers "Golden Path"

THIS!!! except Golden Path had more of a 'payout' for me

[TheBang]

Esme is credited for additional vocals on this track.

Is this the first Underworld track/collaboration with a guest vocalist? I can't think of any others. There's Moon in Water where Danielle did the vocals, but that was a replacement for the MacinTalk Vicki track. I guess maybe Eclipse counts too, but we don't know who that vocalist is.

[TheBang]

THIS! You just jogged my memory! This echoes the unreleased 2005 live track from Heineken I think with Rick singing, "Sometimes all I can do is count...."
Well, that was "5 Foot 5", a Pricey track, from the Akademik gig.

[TheBang]

I don't think anyone mentioned this yet, but in the post-gig interview on the radio, Karl mentioned that this track came out of collaborations with Iggy that were done for possible use in T2, but ultimately were not. But they recorded this with him, as well as some other tracks that might be forthcoming.

[khouri]

I don't think anyone mentioned this yet, but in the post-gig interview on the radio, Karl mentioned that this track came out of collaborations with Iggy that were done for possible use in T2, but ultimately were not. But they recorded this with him, as well as some other tracks that might be forthcoming.

Makes a lot more sense in the T2 context. That’s a film about deeply flawed people getting older and living in a modern world that’s evolved beyond their abilities to keep up. Think of Renton’s rants in both films and you can sort of justify Iggy’s as a similar rant from another angle. Which is not to say it’s any good. The substance is still an old man complaining about he can no longer do destructive things to himself and other people without consequences, which runs directly against the cultural moment in which the song finds itself.

[ultradave]

...can I get an instrumental on this? I like Iggy, but seriously... khouri is right, this is just an old man's rant set to the background of some amazing music by Rick. Not sure if I'm willing to dish out cash for this and I pretty much buy everything underworld... when it comes to audio.

[pandamagic]

The Iggy Pop rant is cringey and dumb. The music is okay but nowhere close to what they're capable of doing. So this is a thumbs down for me.

[potatobroth]

I tired again. Love the drums, hate the Iggy part.

[negative1]

no thank you.

later
-1

[darkvoice]

Song should 've ended with wear sunscreen.... :)

[Georg.]

If they give us an instrumental version I am happy...

[King of Snake]

Not sure why people are getting their knickers in a twist about Iggy Pop. It's Iggy Pop. He's an old rock star. A rebel. Wasn't rock and roll supposed to be anti-PC? About "misbehaving"? Having fun? He talks about hitting on a stewardess. Oh my, how terribly sexist.

Sure it's a "rant" from a guy from another time but this #MeToo sensitivity can go too far you know.
I was happy though that some more Underworld-y vocals came in later in the track with the "sunlight on my wings" refrain.

Fun track. Would listen again. I actually like the video this time too.

[King of Snake]

Makes a lot more sense in the T2 context. That’s a film about deeply flawed people getting older and living in a modern world that’s evolved beyond their abilities to keep up.



Which basically describes every person on the planet. Including you and me at some point in the future. (not saying we're all flawed to the same extent as some of the characters in Trainspotting of course but you get my meaning).


Think of Renton’s rants in both films and you can sort of justify Iggy’s as a similar rant from another angle. Which is not to say it’s any good. The substance is still an old man complaining about he can no longer do destructive things to himself and other people without consequences, which runs directly against the cultural moment in which the song finds itself.And we must not have music that goes against the current cultural norms of course. I'd have to say they timed this song quite well, almost like they did it on purpose.

[potatobroth]

Not sure why people are getting their knickers in a twist about Iggy Pop. It's Iggy Pop. He's an old rock star.

Because his part kinda sucks; content and delivery.

[Dirty Saint]

...can I get an instrumental on this? I like Iggy, but seriously... khouri is right, this is just an old man's rant set to the background of some amazing music by Rick. Not sure if I'm willing to dish out cash for this and I pretty much buy everything underworld... when it comes to audio.

Isn't this the basis of near all other Underworld tracks ;)

[potatobroth]

Isn't this the basis of near all other Underworld tracks ;)

Nah. It would feel even more wrong of Karl sang it. Banging drums with awkward lyrics layered on.

[darkvoice]

First listen on a phone. Tracks is mwoah. Second listen car stereo: man this track rocks! Great vibe and at thirst I found the Karl lyrics a bit off but it grows and love the whole track. Also live this is a great banger. Finally!

[joethelion]

First listen on a phone. Tracks is mwoah. Second listen car stereo: man this track rocks! Great vibe and at thirst I found the Karl lyrics a bit off but it grows and love the whole track. Also live this is a great banger. Finally!

totally agree

[Dino3D]

Love the track. Very dubnobass vibes.

[holden]

Bass recalls "Dark and Long"

[iamneorev]

I like it.
First song in a long time that gave me that classic Underworld Dub/STITI vibes. I miss that driving beat/bass they were ace at.

I hope we get more!

[King of Snake]

Because his part kinda sucks; content and delivery.

Great argument.

[King of Snake]

This track is properly stuck in my head now :)

[purlieu]

I'm split on the content, Iggy's over-the-top delivery makes it sound quite self-aware to me. Almost as if he's taking the piss out of the kind of person who'd quite seriously have this kind of rant. But I agree that it's still a bit tasteless.

Backing track and Karl's vocals are superb.

[Bargo]

At first I was very indifferent towards it, but I've come around quite a lot and Iggy's verbal tirade is no longer grating on me either. But it's mainly due to that beat. Bloody hell Mr Smith, you can still knock em out of the park when you want.

[scary man]

I don't think anyone mentioned this yet, but in the post-gig interview on the radio, Karl mentioned that this track came out of collaborations with Iggy that were done for possible use in T2, but ultimately were not. But they recorded this with him, as well as some other tracks that might be forthcoming.

Anyone got a link to that interview? Thanks.

[TheBang]

Anyone got a link to that interview? Thanks.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0b48zq7

About the 1:15:00 mark.

[scary man]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0b48zq7

About the 1:15:00 mark.

Cheers!

[TheBang]

This is available for purchase on Qobuz now, including in 24-bit. I imagine it will appear on 7digital shortly, which is slightly cheaper, the same way Brilliant Yes That Would Be did.

[iamneorev]

I picked up the 24 bit from Qobuz. I frigging love Qobuz. #1 digital music store for me, followed by Bandcamp. Underworld should just create their own Bandcamp to be honest.

[TheBang]

Underworld should just create their own Bandcamp to be honest.
They had their own digital fulfillment store created by ant in 2005-2010 or so. It wasn't that great. They really don't have the resources to build and maintain their own e-commerce solution. They already have digital fulfillment through their TM Stores shop platform. They just don't use it much, though I don't know why.

[khouri]

They had their own digital fulfillment store created by ant in 2005-2010 or so. It wasn't that great. They really don't have the resources to build and maintain their own e-commerce solution. They already have digital fulfillment through their TM Stores shop platform. They just don't use it much, though I don't know why.

I’ve never understood this about Underworld. There are so many simple ways to monetize the vast amount of stuff they’ve already released for free and made unavailable.

[iamneorev]

They had their own digital fulfillment store created by ant in 2005-2010 or so. It wasn't that great. They really don't have the resources to build and maintain their own e-commerce solution. They already have digital fulfillment through their TM Stores shop platform. They just don't use it much, though I don't know why.


I’ve never understood this about Underworld. There are so many simple ways to monetize the vast amount of stuff they’ve already released for free and made unavailable.


That's why they seriously need a Bandcamp store. That way they can just upload the music and let Bandcamp handle the rest. No costs in building or maintaining anything. They seriously should just reissue their entire catalog digitally thru Bandcamp. Bandcamp has various formats as well as streaming capabilities.

[jetpig]

I'd re-buy Riverrun through bandcamp just to be supportive of it being available again.

[purlieu]

Yeah, Bandcamp is completely ideal for this kind of thing. Upload tracks and art and it's done.

[domsgotsideburns]

whew, a lot has been said about this track already, but it's quickly becoming one of my favourites from the band. iggy pop's input was a bit intriguing on the first listen, but after extensive plays, i now don't mind it at all. karl's catchy refrain really gets stuck into your head and the backing track is an absolute stomper. an awesome treat to your ears!

i hope underworld continues to make more songs in this similar vein. all the energy from this single track makes me very excited for whatever else they have prepared for the World of Underworld. in fact, there'll likely be another similar stomping track coming soon, which i cannot wait for... :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rESIZcMbaqs

[potatobroth]

but it's quickly becoming one of my favourites from the band

really? really really? :P

After more listens i really love the music but hate the rant even more. chorus has grown me a bit however. i can't help but picture Ted Nugent when Iggy is ranting.

[domsgotsideburns]

really? really really? :P

yes really! i just can't get over it
what's interesting about this track is how controversial the discussion about it has been. many here either dislike iggy's adult ranting (i do find it a bit odd that underworld now have associations in a song that references drugs.. weren't they quite cautious about their music being linked to such things in the past?), or are rather fine with it.. and i'm in the latter ;)

[potatobroth]

yeah i hear ya. the rant just feels really cheap to me. and well, ranty.

[darkvoice]

yes really! i just can't get over it
what's interesting about this track is how controversial the discussion about it has been. many here either dislike iggy's adult ranting (i do find it a bit odd that underworld now have associations in a song that references drugs.. weren't they quite cautious about their music being linked to such things in the past?), or are rather fine with it.. and i'm in the latter ;)

I agree. Second part of the rant is lees internering then the stewardess part but the song just builds up the way I love from the band. It has something from Dark and Long drive and the vocals are like moanerisk (is this a thing?). They should release a version with Karl doing the full vocals 😀

[pandamagic]

Sure it's a "rant" from a guy from another time but this #MeToo sensitivity can go too far you know.

actually the stewardess bit didn't really register as problematic to me at all. what rubs me the wrong way is how banal iggy's rant is. like - you used to be able to smoke on a plane, and now you can't? that's it? is this supposed to be some kind of elegy for the 70s when you could be as insensitive as you wanted without repercussions? cause that's a bit suspect coming from someone famous and privileged enough to have enjoyed self-indulgence with impunity during a decade that was really shitty for a lot of other kinds of people. and if its supposed to be self-parody of rock-star ego well then its just too subtle to register and that's entirely the fault of the creators. there's no give-away that leads us to that interpretation.

the best underworld tracks have lyrics that are oblique, poetic, nonsensical, and slyly profound, and this offers none of that. but the production is decent enough I suppose, so not a total waste of time.

[iamneorev]

I'd re-buy Riverrun through bandcamp just to be supportive of it being available again.

So would I. Hell, I'll rebuy their entire discogs if they made it all available digitally.

[King of Snake]

actually the stewardess bit didn't really register as problematic to me at all. what rubs me the wrong way is how banal iggy's rant is. like - you used to be able to smoke on a plane, and now you can't? that's it?

Well someone brought up the word "sexist" so that's what I responded to.
Anyway, of course everyone is entitled to their opinion and it's always fun to try and dissect Underworld tracks.
For me the track, or at least Iggy's part is about having fun, doing what you want, being perhaps a bit rebellious. All these things should not be alien to people immersed in dance-music culture like us Underworld fans. Hedonism and escapism was always a big part of that. He speaks about more things than just the smoking on the airplane but I actually like how he zooms in on this banal detail when he remembers having fun, feeling good back in his day, and contrasting this with perhaps today, where some of these things are no longer possible (smoking on the airplane) or at least frowned upon (hitting on a stewardess).
Obviously UW saw that too, hence the repetition of the phrases "Smoking on the airplane" and "You can't do that".

It's not like UW's lyrics don't often do the same thing. "Lager lager lager"... Karl loves to zoom in on banal little details of the world, and in the context of the music they take on different meanings. Of course where Karl's lyrics came from a darker place, at least back then, Iggy here seems to recall details of those days with some fondness.

is this supposed to be some kind of elegy for the 70s when you could be as insensitive as you wanted without repercussions? cause that's a bit suspect coming from someone famous and privileged enough to have enjoyed self-indulgence with impunity during a decade that was really shitty for a lot of other kinds of people. Well, which part do you find "insensitive"? Smoking was not considered as bad as it is today back in the 70's. As he says in the track: "everyone was doing it". Also, I'm sure every decade has been really shitty for some group of people but what does that have to do with anything? While we are dancing our asses off to Underworld, other people in the world have nothing to eat. You, me, all of us here are priviliged in the extreme compared to most other people in the world. Are we then not supposed to enjoy our lives anymore? I'm sure Iggy worked hard for his success and fame and loads of people love his music. And he probably has had enough difficult times as well (remember Lust for Life is about fighting heroin addiction) so who are we to judge the guy's "privilige". As far as I'm concerned he can do whatever he wants to make himself feel good as long as it doesn't come at the direct detriment to other people.

and if its supposed to be self-parody of rock-star ego well then its just too subtle to register and that's entirely the fault of the creators. there's no give-away that leads us to that interpretation.
I don't think it's a self parody. I think he's genuine. He's not taking himself too seriously, but that's not the same as parody. Of course all these big rock star types turn into a bit of a parody of themselves at some point (if they survive long enough), but that's part of why people like rock stars I guess. They're supposed to be larger than life.

[34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j]

idk I'm not really bothered by Iggy's rant. I think it's supposed to be wistful and a little sad. dude has lived the ultimate rock star life and now he is reminiscing about...uh...not being able to smoke on the airplane. like the "you can't do that" part comes off to me like...no shit you can't do that!! besides hasn't Underworld's aesthetic always been a bit grimy and inconsequential? beauty in trash, etc. etc.


this track goes super hard. I'm impressed. I love a lot of what they've done these last 20 years (!!!!) but god damn, it feels good to get a proper banger again

[pandamagic]

For me the track, or at least Iggy's part is about having fun, doing what you want, being perhaps a bit rebellious. All these things should not be alien to people immersed in dance-music culture like us Underworld fans. Hedonism and escapism was always a big part of that. He speaks about more things than just the smoking on the airplane but I actually like how he zooms in on this banal detail when he remembers having fun, feeling good back in his day, and contrasting this with perhaps today, where some of these things are no longer possible (smoking on the airplane) or at least frowned upon (hitting on a stewardess).
Obviously UW saw that too, hence the repetition of the phrases "Smoking on the airplane" and "You can't do that".

It's not like UW's lyrics don't often do the same thing. "Lager lager lager"... Karl loves to zoom in on banal little details of the world, and in the context of the music they take on different meanings. Of course where Karl's lyrics came from a darker place, at least back then, Iggy here seems to recall details of those days with some fondness.


Actually this is a fair point, so thanks. I think I'm just more likely to be charitable to Karl's vocals because I get a sense of what kind of person he is (based on interviews, previous work, etc.) and he's always come across as thoughtful & likeable. Whereas Iggy has mostly just comes across as petulant and tiresome to me. So I guess that's just my bias. I do agree though that Iggy's rant isn't entirely out of place in the Underworld universe.


Well, which part do you find "insensitive"? Smoking was not considered as bad as it is today back in the 70's. As he says in the track: "everyone was doing it". Also, I'm sure every decade has been really shitty for some group of people but what does that have to do with anything? While we are dancing our asses off to Underworld, other people in the world have nothing to eat. You, me, all of us here are priviliged in the extreme compared to most other people in the world. Are we then not supposed to enjoy our lives anymore? I'm sure Iggy worked hard for his success and fame and loads of people love his music. And he probably has had enough difficult times as well (remember Lust for Life is about fighting heroin addiction) so who are we to judge the guy's "privilige". As far as I'm concerned he can do whatever he wants to make himself feel good as long as it doesn't come at the direct detriment to other people.

I don't think it's a self parody. I think he's genuine. He's not taking himself too seriously, but that's not the same as parody. Of course all these big rock star types turn into a bit of a parody of themselves at some point (if they survive long enough), but that's part of why people like rock stars I guess. They're supposed to be larger than life.

I suppose I raise an eyebrow any time anyone gets a little misty-eyed about more "permissive" decades of the recent past. Like, didn't Mad Men teach us anything? Sure the furniture was cool but a lot of the rest of it was pretty gross. I'm old enough (though, not as old as Iggy) to remember when you could smoke everywhere and it was pretty fucking awful. I've also lost a couple of family members to lung cancer so I guess that's another personal bias. And before you go "wow you sound fun" remember that this is an Underworld forum so I guess I'm at least fun enough to like dance music. So there's that.

Anyway, thanks for your feedback. It's made me reconsider the track a little bit, though I'll probably just end up relegating it to the slowly growing list of "Underworld and Underworld adjacent tracks I never listen to" along with "The First Note Is Silent" and some of the 2012 Olympic stuff . . .

[dubman]

i think the iggy rant can live despite it coming from someone who's used to and proud of their sense of entitlement, because it successfully pulls off describing a whole perspective out of smaller parts. these are paper scraps and cig butts, what should be embarrassing metal globs of words, that somehow amount to crystallizing a much larger idea of How It Works. who's getting pranked on (in a lighter and much darker sense) vs who doing it. his idea of our ecosystem of beliefs. his ethos that emerged out of... whatever life he's lived over several decades. i'm not sure how valuable that is really ("salty white rock star muddles through their own brain to find some discontent" does not deserve to be interesting tbh), but we have a complete painting, done well, and i hope he finds someone who'll smack him on the back of the head at unexpected intervals on an ongoing basis.


i don't think i'm gonna listen to it too much though.

[dubman]

Nah. It would feel even more wrong of Karl sang it. Banging drums with awkward lyrics layered on.


i mean....


this is how a lot of underworld 'moments' happen though. the difference is that iggy uses the stream to complain and declare like a jackass, whereas karl finds his high in transcendent ambiguity, which is way classier but no less immune from being totally awkward if he doesn't stick the landing.
if iggy had excised about 33% of this rant we'd probably get something really vivid and affecting, but then it wouldn't really be iggy probably.

[dubman]

As far as I'm concerned he can do whatever he wants to make himself feel good as long as it doesn't come at the direct detriment to other people.



isn't this exactly what he's implying?
like right on the line at the beginning.

"i'd get my finger into everything i wanted"
this natural sense that any space is his to cheerfully fuck with, his blithe right to invade anything he wants is instantly obnoxious.

his self-aggrandizing "i shouldn't have wings because of what people say about ethics i guess", because he'd do things that go against wimpy european ideas of right and wrong. that sounds pretty strongly like he believes that you're either the one doing it or the one it's being done to.



he'd have fun according to the rules of "the jungle", which will come, because the revolution won't happen. what's coming is a civilization full of atavistic degenerates, who will still ban smoking on flights, which will be hijacked by criminals running a "pretty good business." he de facto knows the rules of this jungle better then people who don't smoke.



nevermind that the jungle would brain him with a rock and sell his drug-infused bone marrow on ebay if it could, big rebel.

[jetpig]

The waitress part still comes off as somewhat creeper to me. It's furthered by his desire to have had the waitress instead of the cocaine as though each is a thing for him to have. I then can't disconnect the "you can't do that" from the waitress section, which doesn't help the image.


On the other hand, every female subject of Karl's lyrics comes across as a full and beautiful human being, save for perhaps, "the most blonde I ever met." I feel an earnest affection from Karl's portrayals as opposed to a self centered lust. Slummin it for the weekend is the best example of this.

I understand all the various contexts of the song and the lyrics and the writers, and at the end of the day, I just prefer Karl's writing and framing to Iggy's, I guess.

I appreciate that this band has put out a song that has sparked such legitimate discussion. I also appreciate that this forum keeps it civil.

Also it's a banging track and Karl/Esme's vocals are A1, top shelf, Underworld magic.

[King of Snake]

Actually this is a fair point, so thanks. I think I'm just more likely to be charitable to Karl's vocals because I get a sense of what kind of person he is (based on interviews, previous work, etc.) and he's always come across as thoughtful & likeable. Whereas Iggy has mostly just comes across as petulant and tiresome to me. So I guess that's just my bias. I do agree though that Iggy's rant isn't entirely out of place in the Underworld universe.



Sure I get that. I'm certainly more familiar with Karl as a person (insofar as that's possible without personally knowing him) than Iggy Pop, who I only know as... well.. Iggy Pop the rock star. And perhaps the heroin addict.


I suppose I raise an eyebrow any time anyone gets a little misty-eyed about more "permissive" decades of the recent past. Like, didn't Mad Men teach us anything? Sure the furniture was cool but a lot of the rest of it was pretty gross. I'm old enough (though, not as old as Iggy) to remember when you could smoke everywhere and it was pretty fucking awful. I've also lost a couple of family members to lung cancer so I guess that's another personal bias. And before you go "wow you sound fun" remember that this is an Underworld forum so I guess I'm at least fun enough to like dance music. So there's that.


Oh I'm totally with you that smoking everywhere was awful. Bars, restaurants, trains... especially on an airplane, it sounds absolutely horrible! And I've also seen an uncle and an acquaintance die from lung cancer so again, totally 100% with you that smoking is awful. Cocaine use, same thing. Another person I knew was a heavy cocaine user and committed suicide last year leaving behind a wife and two kids. Pretty tragic.

But at the same time for many people these things have at some point been sources of "fun" and enjoyment. Most if not all people have had some rebellious phase. I used to be a smoker until about 7-8 years ago (so happy I quit) and I've used various drugs including cocaine. When I was younger it was part of the scene and I was impressionable. Not every cocaine user commits suicide, not everyone who enjoys a beer becomes an alcoholic. Certainly Iggy pop has over-indulged in some of these things during his life but I'm not really hearing this so much as a celebration of over-indulgence to be followed, but just his personal experience.


Anyway, thanks for your feedback. It's made me reconsider the track a little bit, though I'll probably just end up relegating it to the slowly growing list of "Underworld and Underworld adjacent tracks I never listen to" along with "The First Note Is Silent" and some of the 2012 Olympic stuff . . .Thanks for responding. I do get where you're coming from and it is not my intention to change anyone's opinion of the song, but I think it's open for different interpretations (as usual).

[King of Snake]

The waitress part still comes off as somewhat creeper to me. It's furthered by his desire to have had the waitress instead of the cocaine as though each is a thing for him to have. I then can't disconnect the "you can't do that" from the waitress section, which doesn't help the image.



Well the stewardes (not waitress) did give him her phone number (if we take his story for truth) willingly so there seems to be mutual consent there. It's not like he was thinking of "having her" against her will right?
Self centered lust may not be the most beautiful or poetic of human emotions, but it is human and normal for everyone to have from time to time.

[King of Snake]

isn't this exactly what he's implying?
like right on the line at the beginning.

"i'd get my finger into everything i wanted"
this natural sense that any space is his to cheerfully fuck with, his blithe right to invade anything he wants is instantly obnoxious.


his self-aggrandizing "i shouldn't have wings because of what people say about ethics i guess", because he'd do things that go against wimpy european ideas of right and wrong. that sounds pretty strongly like he believes that you're either the one doing it or the one it's being done to.

he'd have fun according to the rules of "the jungle", which will come, because the revolution won't happen. what's coming is a civilization full of atavistic degenerates, who will still ban smoking on flights, which will be hijacked by criminals running a "pretty good business." he de facto knows the rules of this jungle better then people who don't smoke.

nevermind that the jungle would brain him with a rock and sell his drug-infused bone marrow on ebay if it could, big rebel.

Well I think you're making it sound worse than it's intended. Again, I think it should be considered more tongue-in-cheek. He's perhaps speculating on what he would do if unrestrained. He's not saying that's objectively good or moral.
It sounds like you're reading "get his finger in everything" as something sexual and invading, again implying against someone else's will. "Having your finger in (every pie)" also just means being involved, and influencing in many different things. He's just being honest about himself, it sounds like he knows he's someone who would, unrestrained, indulge in many vices. He has done that. Surely he also knows the dark side of this, which could be to the detriment of himself and others. He's already fought heroin addiction, he's had the messed up life. He's 70 now. He doesn't smoke, he does tai-chi, and lives happily with his wife in Miami. His idea of a wild time is going to the beach and to "have dinner with my wife somewhere with low lighting where we can sit close to each other." (https://www.rollingstone.com/music/features/the-last-word-iggy-pop-talks-drugs-aging-keith-richards-w458837)

[potatobroth]

i also found the play on the line "the revolution will not be televised" to just be shoved in there. how does that even fit in here? and for that matter, isnt the chorus and rant two totally different feelings?

i really dislike the Iggy Pop rant. as a one-off, sure, have at it. but if this was an album track i'd be really bummed.

[khouri]

It’s not that complicated. The piece is an old white man’s eulogy for the days where he could impose his thoughtless will on other people without restraint, which is necessarily a criticism of the world of today, a world increasingly defined by a rejection of that kind of behavior on every level. I find it an entirely unsympathetic posture.

But if I’m giving Iggy too much credit insofar as making a statement about the world, then maybe the song sucks even more because then he’s just literally ranting artlessly about his yearning for the days when he could smoke on airplanes, entirely ignorant of the world in which the song finds itself? Because intentionally provocative shit is still preferable to meaningless shit.

[twicezero]

It’s not that complicated. The piece is an old white man’s eulogy for the days where he could impose his thoughtless will on other people without restraint, which is necessarily a criticism of the world of today, a world increasingly defined by a rejection of that kind of behavior on every level. I find it an entirely unsympathetic posture.

But if I’m giving Iggy too much credit insofar as making a statement about the world, then maybe the song sucks even more because then he’s just literally ranting artlessly about his yearning for the days when he could smoke on airplanes, entirely ignorant of the world in which the song finds itself? Because intentionally provocative shit is still preferable to meaningless shit.

Totes +100 on this

[negative1]

this song, makes 'stray dog', which he did with new order, sound good.
(and i can't stand that song either).

although there, the lyrics were written by bernard sumner.

later
-1

[khouri]

this song, makes 'stray dog', which he did with new order, sound good.
(and i can't stand that song either).

although there, the lyrics were written by bernard sumner.

later
-1

That song broke my heart. I love the music in that track, but those words are dire -- even by Sumner standards. Not Iggy's fault there. My fanfiction idea for that song is what if those lyrics were delivered in the heavily distorted "Fine Time" voice, masking their substance but still sounding cool? Alas.

[potatobroth]

It’s not that complicated. The piece is an old white man’s eulogy for the days where he could impose his thoughtless will on other people without restraint


well yeah, but as everyone that uses this forum, i love Underworld for their poetry thru stream of consciousness and not incredibly cheesy fake prose.

steal planes and take them to Cuba: "he had a good business" - wtf is that? SO CRINGE.

[scary man]

well yeah, but as everyone that uses this forum, i love Underworld for their poetry thru stream of consciousness and not incredibly cheesy fake prose.

steal planes and take them to Cuba: "he had a good business" - wtf is that? SO CRINGE.

Really? I just think it's funny.

[potatobroth]

Really? I just think it's funny.

eh. i think its pretty dumb. his list of rants involve smoking on the airplane (cant do that anymore), banging stewardesses (cant do that anymore), and hijacking planes (huh?)

[holden]

I'm glad that an Underworld track has got this much attention and debate!

Since 2000, I've been a fan, and pretty much every new track has required some "getting used to". Several listens into this, and I love it. The words melt away, the important parts left are the beats, the "sunshine on my wings", and echoed "you can't do that".

[scary man]

eh. i think its pretty dumb. his list of rants involve smoking on the airplane (cant do that anymore), banging stewardesses (cant do that anymore), and hijacking planes (huh?)

He doesn't talk about 'banging stewardesses' he talks about not being brave enough to ask the stewardess for her telephone number, so her snorts a gram of Chang to gain confidence, then she gives him her phone number, but because he was so stoned, he loses her number.
He then reflects that taking the cocaine was a mistake.

There's a whole story there you're changing to suit your own projected meaning.

[potatobroth]

There's a whole story there you're changing to suit your own projected meaning.

"and if they were hot you could try to pick them up" & "the stewardess would have been better than the cocaine" -- sorry, that i inferred Iggy meant banging and not taking them out for a steak dinner. :\

and the song is not solely about Iggy's courage. Its about a time long gone by. And somehow that involves (even comedically) hijackings.

[scary man]

"and if they were hot you could try to pick them up" & "the stewardess would have been better than the cocaine" -- sorry, that i inferred Iggy meant banging and not taking them out for a steak dinner. :\

and the song is not solely about Iggy's courage. Its about a time long gone by. And somehow that involves (even comedically) hijackings.

Well, I didn't get that the hijacking story was connected to the story about getting the phone number, other than he was talking about planes and the train of thought took him that way.
I'm sure you've had conversations, that's kind of how they work, don't they?
But, you know, the vocal doesn't work for you. That's fine. Personally, I think your reading of it is a slightly snooty and a tad humourless. That's all.

[holden]

. Personally, I think your reading of it is a slightly snooty and a tad humourless. That's all.

On Youtube, the video has 4,300 yeahs and 108 nahs. Odds are in favor, but there are always some distractors. Not gonna change their minds.
And basically, there's no point. You either like it or hate it. For many years, new UW tracks have left me confused, but i always teeter into the fold. They've produced nothing that disgusts, but plenty that challenged, and a lot that entices.

[potatobroth]

For many years, new UW tracks have left me confused, but i always teeter into the fold. They've produced nothing that disgusts, but plenty that challenged, and a lot that entices.

I'm almost entire in this category. I dislike so few Underworld tracks. The problem I'm having is that I love the music but really hate the ranting. Its just so poorly ranted.

Its just not on theme with Underworld. Like i said earlier, can anyone picture Karl singing that? how weird would that feel?

[34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j]

that's the point though isn't it? the last few years seem to be all about doing things they normally wouldn't do. starting perhaps with the Olympic stuff.

[potatobroth]

that's the point though isn't it? the last few years seem to be all about doing things they normally wouldn't do. starting perhaps with the Olympic stuff.

no? like i said above if this had been Karl signing those lyrics, i think more would be turned off a bit by it. but its not, its Iggy. so some of you are fine with it, some find it funny, but i find it pretty cheesy or poorly executed.

[Dino3D]

Will there be a new album?

[swift]

first: i love this song. reminds me of the energy of moaner, getting a basically one-note composition to great hights. not many people can do this and produce anything listenable in this way. yet this song does this in my opinion. including iggy, and how they edited him in.

second: i've never been a fan of iggy pop but i've always respected him as part of the movement that made punk which changed popular music and made also possible the do it yourself attitude that sprouted the electronic music revolution some fifteen years later.

third: i really do not understand, and am actually are appaled by, the rant about the 'rant' of iggy's lyrics in this topic. to be very honest, it tells me how far we are from recovering from the conservative cultural movement that set in at the beginning of the millennium and continues to worsten until today. and i cannot help to notice that the most complaints come from the american continent. for what it's worth.

to me, the iggy rant is a highly political statement, and i am grateful for underworld to edit it in this way (as it is edited clearly so you should address them). as a lyricist, as an artist, he builds a story to make a point. smoking on the airplane is a means, not the point as an old guy. he uses it as a construct to address something else: the fact that liberal democracy, and what he calls 'european ideas about right and wrong' are disappearing from the general, global ideas around what society should be like. and he is right. this is a general concern. and the fact these lyrics are discussed here in this way, the fucking underworld forum, actually proves his point. what do you think underworld and their likes tried to do back in 1993? thgey tried to expand freedom of everything. of sound, of art, of they way you lived. and now you are saying that iggy pop, who did that before, is sexist or oldfashioned? whenever you listen to dubnobass next time, please realise this was freeing music, not bounding it in any sense.

underworld music is about pushing bounderies, about doing new things, about creating something you've never heard before. as they did in this new song.

and yes, i still smoke. moderately.

[pandamagic]

yes I agree - you really do not understand the criticisms of iggy's lyrics.

[iamneorev]

third: i really do not understand, and am actually are appaled by, the rant about the 'rant' of iggy's lyrics in this topic. to be very honest, it tells me how far we are from recovering from the conservative cultural movement that set in at the beginning of the millennium and continues to worsten until today. and i cannot help to notice that the most complaints come from the american continent. for what it's worth.

I'm from America, New York to be specific, and I love the song and the lyrics do not bother me at all... because I actually understood the point the song was conveying.

I am someone who was honestly baffled by the negative response to the lyrics. I think the lyrics flew over people's heads. Someone is always there ready to create controversy over something. I think the negative response people are having with this song is exactly what the song is trying to poke fun of and create a discussion about. I don't Iggy is genuinely pining for the days of smoking on an airplane and hitting on stewardesses. The lyrics are more like form of provocation for those who will take what he says way too literally and go and be angry about it. They behave as a way for us to look at ourselves, when we may take things too seriously and jump the gun and let our anger get the best of us. Even in today's world, if you did try to do something beautiful, it will more than likely piss someone off no matter what you do. There is someone out there ready to tell you "You can't do that."

Write a song about smoking on airplanes and hitting on stewardesses. (You can't do that)

Let the sun shine on your wings (You can't do that)

Soon, you won't be able to do anything when you take the "You can't do that" mentality too far. A sort of cautionary tale that deserves this discussion.

[jetpig]

I'm from America, New York to be specific, and I love the song and the lyrics do not bother me at all... because I actually understood the point the song was conveying.

I am someone who was honestly baffled by the negative response to the lyrics. I think the lyrics flew over people's heads. Someone is always there ready to create controversy over something. I think the negative response people are having with this song is exactly what the song is trying to poke fun of and create a discussion about. I don't Iggy is genuinely pining for the days of smoking on an airplane and hitting on stewardesses. The lyrics are more like form of provocation for those who will take what he says way too literally and go and be angry about it. They behave as a way for us to look at ourselves, when we may take things too seriously and jump the gun and let our anger get the best of us. Even in today's world, if you did try to do something beautiful, it will more than likely piss someone off no matter what you do. There is someone out there ready to tell you "You can't do that."

Write a song about smoking on airplanes and hitting on stewardesses. (You can't do that)

Let the sun shine on your wings (You can't do that)

Soon, you won't be able to do anything when you take the "You can't do that" mentality too far. A sort of cautionary tale that deserves this discussion.

I appreciate this angle quite a bit and I can identify with it. I was (and still am) a little put off by iggy's lyrics, but I regularly get (You can't do that)'s in my life as a skater. I think part of my distaste is that I put a considerable amount of effort into ensuring the beautiful things I do, the things that spread sunlight on my wings, don't negatively impact others even if they are entirely just for me. Meanwhile, the images and instances they chose to illuminate and use are ones that can often negatively impact those around you. Perhaps that was part of the 'provocateur' choice?

PS: I smoke, heavily. Thank goodness I live in a legal state. ;)

[khouri]

I think it's interesting that all the criticism of the criticism is rooted in the notion that detractors can't possibly dislike the song in a genuine way, but are dishonestly seeking to be put off by it in service of politics, which is a position that's as political as anything else in the discussion.

[pandamagic]

I think it's interesting that all the criticism of the criticism is rooted in the notion that detractors can't possibly dislike the song in a genuine way, but are dishonestly seeking to be put off by it in service of politics, which is a position that's as political as anything else in the discussion.

ding ding ding. quite possibly the most sensible thing I've read in this thread so far.

there's been some "slippery slope" fallacies popping up here and there, ie - "they've taken away our right to smoke on planes, what will they take away next? let's keep an eye on this disturbing trend" except that my ability to be in a public space without having my health compromised by an entitled minority of people who don't give a f*ck about their bodies is a *literal expansion* of my freedom & an objectively more progressive way to have a society.

[dubman]

i said my piece. stans are gonna stan. it's not so complicated that anyone criticizing it "just doesn't get it" and i can't reply to that level of fanboying seriously.

[iamneorev]

Fanboying? My response to the song's lyrics have absolutely nothing to do with fanboying. It is my response and thoughts on the song lyrics. Also, the fact that this song was written and meant for the Trainspotting sequel, which deals with growing old and watching the world change around you and how you feel out of place in this new world where ideas of what's cool and accepted and what is now considered bad and outdated. A sorta shock an older person experiencing this shift in thought, culture, behavior over time. This is an unused song written for a movie dealing with what the song is talking about.

Nowhere did I actually gush over the song hence this has nothing to do with being a fanboy. It's understanding the context of a song. I just stated the meaning I got from the lyrics instead of losing my mind and being offended over someone doing a silly, tongue in cheek spoken word about smoking cigarettes and hitting on a stewardess on an airplane. What I find funny are the folks who just don't like the song getting bent out of shape over my thoughts when they weren't even directed at them. My response was toward the people losing their mind over the lyrical content itself, getting angry and focusing on smoking cigarettes and hinting on a stewardess, and pointing out how they maybe missed out on the actual meaning.

Then again, what I took away from the lyrics still stands and seems to be validated a bit because here we are with people overreacting and getting angry over my thoughts on the lyrics and their meaning.

Sharing your thoughts (You can't do that)
Finding meaning in a track (You can't do that)

[potatobroth]

I went back to this after a few weeks now and I still think the rant sucks. The rant/lyrics is not Underworld for what I like them for.

[dubman]

Fanboying? My response to the song's lyrics have absolutely nothing to do with fanboying. It is my response and thoughts on the song lyrics. Also, the fact that this song was written and meant for the Trainspotting sequel, which deals with growing old and watching the world change around you and how you feel out of place in this new world where ideas of what's cool and accepted and what is now considered bad and outdated. A sorta shock an older person experiencing this shift in thought, culture, behavior over time. This is an unused song written for a movie dealing with what the song is talking about.

Nowhere did I actually gush over the song hence this has nothing to do with being a fanboy. It's understanding the context of a song. I just stated the meaning I got from the lyrics instead of losing my mind and being offended over someone doing a silly, tongue in cheek spoken word about smoking cigarettes and hitting on a stewardess on an airplane. What I find funny are the folks who just don't like the song getting bent out of shape over my thoughts when they weren't even directed at them. My response was toward the people losing their mind over the lyrical content itself, getting angry and focusing on smoking cigarettes and hinting on a stewardess, and pointing out how they maybe missed out on the actual meaning.

Then again, what I took away from the lyrics still stands and seems to be validated a bit because here we are with people overreacting and getting angry over my thoughts on the lyrics and their meaning.

Sharing your thoughts (You can't do that)
Finding meaning in a track (You can't do that)

lmao

[iamneorev]

https://i.imgur.com/WILXTep.gif

[swift]

thumbs up, iamneorev!

dubman: ever read a book with a complicated protagonist, or even an asshole as such? american psycho? any dostoevsky? ever seen a movie with difficult morals? a clockwork orange? dogville? things that leave you with questions? art is here to make us question and wonder in many ways. if you think something that takes you out of your comfort zone in the realm of what you like makes someone else who gets something from it a 'fanboy'... go figure. who's the fanboy?

ironically, this song is about the fact that western society is less and less open to this type of art. (you can't do that).

[potatobroth]

ironically, this song is about the fact that western society is less and less open to this type of art. (you can't do that).

eh. i think we're more open to this type of art. Urban art has never been more understood, movies and music push limits as always. This song just happens to be be pretty meh and very UN-underworld.

And smoking on an airplane wasn't banned because a few complaining people. In fact, there's nothing in that song that was simply taken away from anyone in an 'you cant do that' kinda way.

[darkvoice]

Great discussions. Don't forget it was a recorded session for Transpotting 2. The plot of the movie was more and less the you can't do that part. 20 years later: what has changed and what not. Guess the song would have been a much better fit on the soundtrack than a stand alone EP.

[potatobroth]

the headline of the upcoming Q magazine says "Iggy Pop joins Underworld" and my gut reaction was 'i hope not!' (yes, i know what they mean by it)

[darkvoice]

"Iggy Pop joins Underworld"

You can't do that

[BishBash]

Was watching Wimbledon coverage on the BBC on Monday and they did a little focus on Roger Federer; they used Bells & Circles as the music bed, The "sunlight on my wings" bit was used to glorify Rogers' admittedly glorious career/ability.

You could hear bits of Iggy in the background too, so I guess the BBC haven't been sent an instrumental. Anyone holding their breath for an Iggy-free instrumental may want to um, manage their expectations.
Must say the track has really grown on me since its release. I like Iggy (Post Pop Depression was the best Rock album of 2016) but some of the lyrics do feel a bit incongruous. I remember smoking on airplanes from when I was a very small boy. If you were in the non-smoking section, you were still effectively smoking.

New lyric suggestion: inflicting carcinogenic fumes on people forced to sit in the same metal tube as you for many hours? You can't do that.




EDIT: Oh I've just read this on the EP thread:
So, the Japan CD release (BRC576) is going to have 2 bonus tracks:

Bells & Circles (Instrumental)
Get Your Shirt (Instrumental)

So, those of you who wanted the tracks without Iggy Pop may be interested in that.
Well I guess that's good news for some of y'all.

[potatobroth]

So does “Iggy pop joins underworld” mean forever?

[iamneorev]

So does “Iggy pop joins underworld” mean forever?

No. It doesn't.

[potatobroth]

No. It doesn't.

i was 99% this, but the word "joins" was a weird choice. :D

[khouri]

A friend happened to post this elsewhere. The glory days Iggy fondly recalls, when you could bully young women without consequences because you’re rich and famous (and white). Alas, what a sterile and repressive society we’ve become.

https://youtu.be/LJv4yBWWfeo

[TheBang]

So, UW won a Q Award for Best Track for "Bells & Circles". They beat out the following other nominees:

Love It If We Made It – The 1975
This Is America – Childish Gambino
Girlfriend – Christine & The Queens
The Man – Goat Girl
Make Me Feel – Janelle Monae

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/rick-smith-and-karl-hyde-of-underworld-winners-of-the-q-best-track-in-picture-id1052379694?s=612x612

[potatobroth]

gratz!

[dubnobasswithme]

Wow!

[jetpig]

https://www.clashmusic.com/features/teatime-dub-encounters-clash-meets-underworld





Rick's finishing up "records" and there's about to be an explosion of underworld. Good interview, save for where he says they've, "never really had a fan club." :mad:

[dubman]

So, UW won a Q Award for Best Track for "Bells & Circles". They beat out the following other nominees:

This Is America – Childish Gambino
Girlfriend – Christine & The Queens
Make Me Feel – Janelle Monae




.....really??


Good interview, save for where he says they've, "never really had a fan club." :mad:


HA, lovely.