Palin (almost) talks sense

[Deckard]

Palin:
I would hope that Pastor Terry Jones and his supporters will consider the ramifications of their planned book-burning event. It will feed the fire of caustic rhetoric and appear as nothing more than mean-spirited religious intolerance. Don't feed that fire. If your ultimate point is to prove that the Christian teachings of mercy, justice, freedom, and equality provide the foundation on which our country stands, then your tactic to prove this point is totally counter-productive ... Book burning is antithetical to American ideals. People have a constitutional right to burn a Koran if they want to, but doing so is insensitive and an unnecessary provocation...Yes, you tell 'em, Sarah! Gosh darn it, I actually agree with her on something.

Oh, hold on, she's not quite finished her sentence...

...much like building a mosque at Ground Zero.*facepalm*

So the (so-called) Ground Zero mosque, proposed in a clear spirit of reconciliation, of building stronger interfaith dialogue and understanding, and something that could genuinely form the start of a movement to take the ground from under the feet of Islamic extremists'..... so alike in spirit with Pastor Jones' Great Book-Burning Adventure, eh?

:rolleyes:

Oh well. At least she managed to impress us by using the word 'antithetical'. She'll go far, that one.

[Sean]

Boehner drew the same parallel. Sadly, such blatant shallowness of thought seems to be going undetected by a huge swath of American society.

I'm sad to say it, but I was at lunch the other day with a co-worker who brought this up by saying, "How about that mosque they're trying to build at Ground Zero? What are they thinking?" When I asked him why he felt like it was a problem, he literally couldn't say. When I asked why the moderate Muslims planning the community center should be held accountable for the actions of extremists when we don't hold all Christians accountable for alter boy molestation or the murder of abortion doctors, or all Mormons accountable for the few who marry underage girls in their polygamist relationships (my coworker is Mormon), again, he couldn't say. After just a few minutes, he admitted that he didn't really know anything about it, but knew that people were upset for some reason. Luckily, he's an open-minded enough person that once we talked about it, he was interested in finding out more. So that's good, but I'm sure there are tons of people who are the same as him. They know it's a controversy, and don't think about it beyond the blurbs they see on TV, so they just go along with it. And now 7 in 10 Americans think it's a bad idea based on no objective reasoning whatsoever.

It's a shock to me that something as extreme as this is happening in 2010. I'm getting awfully sick of being shocked this way.

[Caprice]

Yesterday on the 9 year anniversary, all I could think of, is how bad things have gotten for my generation. It's like, things aren't improving. When I learned about the Tea Party, I was speechless.
There is a great depression here in the states that I can't put my finger on, I don't think anyone can put their finger on. It is so broad, and encompasses so many reasons piled onto the other it would take a book to pin-point a general idea.

Frankly, I'm tired of living here. Very tired of living here.

I believe Patriotism is a good thing, but how to express it I am confused. I lived in Mexico for a stint and enjoyed it thoroughly and how banded everyone felt. And my roommate in university was from Montreal, Quebec. He told me much about Montreal and Canada in general, how people interact, and even though most of Canada wants to disown Quebec (he says), and vice versa, they are still a unified country in cause and purpose.

9/11 was the most altering day I can think of in my lifetime. Not for me, because I didn't lose anyone or anything on that day. But the repercussions that have done so much damage, it makes me feel sick.

But back on topic:

I'm still surprised people take Palin seriously.

[Deckard]

9/11 was the most altering day I can think of in my lifetime. Not for me, because I didn't lose anyone or anything on that day. But the repercussions that have done so much damage, it makes me feel sick.

This is so true Caprice. Watching the proliferation of hate and prejudice since 9/11 has been nothing short of wretched. It's not just in the States - it's been steadily growing here in Britain too. Attitudes and events that would have seemed unthinkably callous or stupid a decade ago are now so commonplace. ("20 million affected in Pakistan floods? Well why should WE help the Moslems [sic] when THEY tried to blow us up?") This kind of dumb tribal crap is everywhere.

It's like.... shit, the terrorists have won.

And so many people seem too f-cking dim or brainwashed to get it.

Just to be clear, I don't want to dismiss everyone the above way. Obviously there are an awful lot of people who aren't kneejerk knuckleheads and are fairly receptive to reasoning (perhaps like your lunch colleague Sean). But what scares me is this (and I'll put it in scary caps):

WHY AREN'T PEOPLE THINKING?

[Deckard]

I'm still surprised people take Palin seriously.

Are you? Not me. Not any longer. :(

I just hope this isn't an indicator of things to come...

Sarah Palin's Iowa trip points to 2012 presidential run (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/12/sarah-palin-iowa-republicans-2012)
("Attendance at Republican dinner in key state is seen as biggest sign yet that Sarah Palin aims to take on Obama in 2012...")

A couple of years back I'd have said bring it on - a great loser candidate.

Now I'm really not so sure.

[myrrh]

I think that one of the main reasons all this is happening with the mosque and all the hate is because deep in the sub-conscience of American's there has still not been any closure to 9/11.

There is still a big gaping hole in lower Manhattan, and Obama still has not been caught. If one of these two things where resolved, I feel that people would have closer to that event and move onto other things.

If the new World Trade Center was built with a memorial and all, I doubt that that building this mosque would even be an issue.

Umm, to be on topic... Palin is an idiot.

[the mongoose]

Yeah like they'd let us cruise on over and build a Christian Religious Center right next to Mecca.:rolleyes:

http://i55.tinypic.com/m77xj9.png

Fuck, they jump up and down on camera burning our fucking flags and screaming death to all American infidels.

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i158/sammemeade/obama-robes.jpg

[myrrh]

Yeah like they'd let us cruise on over and build a Christian Religious Center right next to Mecca.:rolleyes:



You can not compare building a Christian Religious Center next to Mecca with the mosque because the two countries governments are based on different principles. Saudi Arabia is a theocracy, we are a democracy. Saudia Arabia doesn't have to allow anything other than Islam in their country because they state that Islam is the countries religion; whereas we say that you can do anything you want here, thus it is your right to build a religious center where ever you want.

[the mongoose]

No one argues the legality of the issue. The whole situation is it's appropriateness, and the fact that there are corcerns over the source of the financial backing.

[the mongoose]

and Obama still has not been caught.

lol:D:D:D:D

[Deckard]

Yeah like they'd let us cruise on over and build a Christian Religious Center right next to Mecca.
No offence but WTF has that got to do with anything? Is America supposed to base its actions on what other countries might or might not do? What was your point in bringing it up, beyond engaging in some more tired old "them vs us" tribalism? Isn't it precisely that mindset that lies at the very heart of the problem?

[Troy McClure]

No offence but WTF has that got to do with anything? Is America supposed to base its actions on what other countries might or might not do? What was your point in bringing it up, beyond engaging in some more tired old "them vs us" tribalism? Isn't it precisely that mindset that lies at the very heart of the problem?

We have the same problem with here in Arizona regarding our Governor and legislature with their new found lust for immigration enforcement. A fair number of their supporters say our state should treat undocumented immigrants the same way Mexico, Iran and North Korea do.

But back to the topic, I'm struggling with whether people like Palin, Gingrich, Boehner, etc. truly believe what they say, or know better but know enough people will support them to get money / press. Sadly, a mixture of both I suppose.

But there was one good person to take on the hate head-on in Texas. A 23 year old, Jacob Isom, on a skateboard grabbed the Quran from director David Grishman of Repent Amarillo in Amarillo, Texas.as he was planning to burn it. Isom made sure it got into safe hands of a leader of the Islamic Center of Amarillo.

http://tinyurl.com/24yc68d

Jason

[//\/\/]

the whole 'ground zero mosque' misnoma is an idiot-magnet, pure and simple. in their tiny minds, they see a mosque built squarely where the towers once were. it's hard to squeeze anything else in there - just look at mongoose's airheaded approach to debate...

[Caprice]

I think that one of the main reasons all this is happening with the mosque and all the hate is because deep in the sub-conscience of American's there has still not been any closure to 9/11.

Part of the reason why I think there has been no closure is that right after the towers were hit, I remember, the rest of the day the whole country was in a state of shock until both towers fell, then after they fell everyone wanted to go to New York to help with the relief. But then, not even a week after, before any serious person could ask why this happened? We started our offensive planning. Our way of revenge.
- if anyone has seen The Boondocks episode called Return of The King, then that is basically how I see the situation. The right thing for USA to have done is to turn the other cheek while investigating into the matter. Tons of investigation, by multiple authorities should have taken place into the attacks and the cause of.

Instead, we went to war: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_Terror

Not taking Palin seriously? I never did until recently, when Glenn Beck decided to make this happen:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restoring_Honor_rally

Now what? What are we Americans who obviously don't stand for this shit to do? I've really thought hard about rallying, about going to rallies and staging rallies but the hard pill to swallow, at least in my state, is that no one really cares. If you start arguing with someone about the political state of the country and the Tea Party gaining support, and we need to do something to counteract them, you'll most likely get the "I have a job," or "I don't have that kind of time to blow," or "I got bills to pay, man."
What has happened here, in my radical opinion, is that Americans (me) have been trapped by debt to do anything else. To pursue anything else. With the economy scare, the thought of losing thy job is almost too terrible to consider. Because if one loses their job today, they could go bankrupt because they can't find another job to pay their debts.
Because of this low moral to do anything else with one's life besides work a job they don't like to the grave, the Tea Party gains momentum, Palin gains support, Beck is actually considered to be...a good speaker.

Now granted Tea Party supporters are Americans also, most likely working jobs they don't like also, but they have a goal oriented mind. Because chances are they were for "The War" in the first place. They can see an End in sight where America will be triumphant again. Whereas the realists, people like me, see no end, see more desturction, see more heartache, see a country that will likely not know true joy for a long time to come.


/rant

[Deckard]

It's like there's this great mass of hate out there that – If you'll excuse the icky metaphor – brings to mind some festering boil. And far from shrinking, it's instead been growing steadily bigger and bigger with each year. What's scary is that even the backlash to GWB's presidency didn't reverse it. Yes even something as awful as that! It's just been growing and growing. And when a festering boil gets too big....

Honestly, what's it going to take?

These people seem to be everywhere, and they just seem completely unreceptive to two vitally important things, reason and compassion. You can clearly and concisely rebut their comments, and they'll just come back with macho posturing and nonsense. And these aren't kids; I've been having a back and forth with some guy in his 50s the last few days. Any genuine attempt to point out his errors is met with "well you liberal whiner you just don't understand America" rather than a rebuttal of the point itself. And they don't WANT to learn or to change or to understand or to empathise. It's like there's no heart and very little brain there.

They're freaking zombies, I tell you! Where are they all coming from?

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

Not taking Palin seriously? I never did until recently, when Glenn Beck decided to make this happen:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restoring_Honor_rally

Now what? What are we Americans who obviously don't stand for this shit to do? I've really thought hard about rallying, about going to rallies and staging rallies but the hard pill to swallow, at least in my state, is that no one really cares. If you start arguing with someone about the political state of the country and the Tea Party gaining support, and we need to do something to counteract them, you'll most likely get the "I have a job," or "I don't have that kind of time to blow," or "I got bills to pay, man."
What has happened here, in my radical opinion, is that Americans (me) have been trapped by debt to do anything else. To pursue anything else. With the economy scare, the thought of losing thy job is almost too terrible to consider. Because if one loses their job today, they could go bankrupt because they can't find another job to pay their debts.
Because of this low moral to do anything else with one's life besides work a job they don't like to the grave, the Tea Party gains momentum, Palin gains support, Beck is actually considered to be...a good speaker.

Now granted Tea Party supporters are Americans also, most likely working jobs they don't like also, but they have a goal oriented mind. Because chances are they were for "The War" in the first place. They can see an End in sight where America will be triumphant again. Whereas the realists, people like me, see no end, see more desturction, see more heartache, see a country that will likely not know true joy for a long time to come.


/rant

Did anyone see anything about the keg party they threw on Saturday? That seemed a bit daft, but, ya know, then again considering an' all . . .

[//\/\/]

They're freaking zombies, I tell you! Where are they all coming from?

...they're all the bastard offspring of michelle malkin and ann coulter, fertilized by glenn beck's little swimmers, and incubated under the warm glow of fox news...

[//\/\/]

you want nose-off-to-spite-face denial? check the comment-section outrage at michelle obama daring to suggest healthier diets

http://michellemalkin.com/2010/09/13/first-lady-gets-into-the-restaurant-business/#comments

america with a health problem? screw that and give me even more food!

[Deckard]

I need to take a break from reading some of this stuff - seriously, I think my own mental health is at risk!

[//\/\/]

i'm reading a book on bill hicks at the moment - sad how little has changed, apart from him being dead... most of his routines are still 100% applicable today

[Deckard]

i'm reading a book on bill hicks at the moment - sad how little has changed, apart from him being dead... most of his routines are still 100% applicable today
Out of interest, which book?
(Love All The People is currently top of my to-buy list)

[//\/\/]

Out of interest, which book?
(Love All The People is currently top of my to-buy list)

that's the one - only £3 at hmv :)


back on topic - here's palin on twitter:

Primary debate is over;time 4unity is now bc time 4choosing is near. Attitudes of unsuccessful campaigns r contagious,make'em worth catching

i once stopped seeing a girl because her texts read like that. and this is a presidential hopeful :eek::eek::eek:

[Deckard]

I'm still trying to work out what on earth this means:


"Attitudes of unsuccessful campaigns r contagious,make'em worth catching"


Huh?

Pretty unsettling reading about the success of the tea party candidates in the news right now. Will this prompt a shift to the right in the mainstream Republican party? :eek:

-

(Btw thanks for the heads up about HMV - have just placed my order :) )

[//\/\/]

more 'i'll be unhealthy even if it kills me' moronism - from g.beck esq

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,601162,00.html

[Sean]

No one argues the legality of the issue. The whole situation is it's appropriateness, and the fact that there are corcerns over the source of the financial backing.Nothing inappropriate about people who had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11 building a community center the same distance from Ground Zero as strip clubs, bars and fast food joints. As for "corcerns (sic) over the source of the financial backing", all that I've heard on that has been nothing more than manufactured, unfounded controversy.

Opposition to this community center has been a sad low point for this country.

[bryantm3]

more 'i'll be unhealthy even if it kills me' moronism - from g.beck esq

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,601162,00.html

how did he get from 'hey, we should put healthier ingredients in food' from the first lady (not a government official) to 'they're banning french fries'. is he just a complete spaz or is he using pretzel logic to stir people up and make money?

[//\/\/]

it gets better. tea party 'winner' has, in the past, sort of, kinda, dabbled in witchcraft. as you do. sort of went to a kinda satanic ritual with, you know, blood on the altar and stuff.

the right wing reaction? BURN THE MESSENGER!!!! can't imagine them giving michelle obama a pass on such a thing - her husband can't even get it right by going to a christian church!

gotta love those standards. there's twice as many of them, after all.

[Deckard]

This made me laugh when I heard about it. I mean, I couldn't give a rat's arse personally. It's just knowing how the Fox/Tea/Loony brigade would be spitting blood if it was a Dem that makes me want to make more of it than it perhaps deserves! :D

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

it gets better. tea party 'winner' has, in the past, sort of, kinda, dabbled in witchcraft. as you do. sort of went to a kinda satanic ritual with, you know, blood on the altar and stuff.

the right wing reaction? BURN THE MESSENGER!!!! can't imagine them giving michelle obama a pass on such a thing - her husband can't even get it right by going to a christian church!

gotta love those standards. there's twice as many of them, after all.



You mean, you've just caught on the bullshit double standards of these kinds of people? I've been at this bullshit of double standards my entire life and don't give one bit of flip* if my choice of English words offends anyone. . .

hmmm, what am I gonna make for dinner tonight . . .

[//\/\/]

oh god no! but it's nice when you find such a prize example...

[Sean]

I'm still trying to work out what on earth this means:
"Attitudes of unsuccessful campaigns r contagious,make'em worth catching"Huh?Well, it's very likely that she has no idea what she's saying either, so don't sweat it. But I do think we can be fairly certain that she wasn't hoping the "attitudes" of this "unsuccessful campaign" would be "contagious" or "worth catching":

"Republican Congressman Bob Inglis, who lost his primary in June to a Tea Party candidate, is now speaking out against the Republican Party. Inglis spoke to CNN's John Roberts on "American Morning" about where things may have gone wrong for himself and the rest of the GOP.

Bob Inglis: I don't think we build our party by distraction and we don't serve our country by division. The key here to pull together as Americans and to build on truth, especially to build a conservative movement, a credible conservative movement, build it on truth.

The truth is that the president is not a Muslim. He's - he was born in America. And he is not a socialist. He is left of center, I’m right of center. And, in fact, he might say very right of center. But that's okay. We can have a debate about real facts. We don't need to making up things because as time goes on, that gets embarrassing when you're found out to have built something on false information and on scapegoats rather than solutions. The customer turns away and says you've got nothing for me because you're not delivering a solution.

[B]John Roberts: Congressman, during your election campaign or the primary campaign, rather, you resisted saying some of the more charged things about the president that your opponent was. Do you think that hurt you?

Bob Inglis: Oh, yeah. People wanted me to say - calling me a socialist every other day. But the ninth commandment should constrain us. Don't bear false witness against your neighbor. That's something that we are socialist conservatives should be evidencing in our campaigns. We don't go around saying those things because it's not true. It's also not true that he's a Muslim. It's not true that he wants to take over as a dictator. These things - we need to get rid of these things so we can build on credible, solid information. We do that, we can build a credible, conservative movement in this country that shows that free enterprise and family are the solutions we're looking for.

John Roberts: Congressman, what are your thoughts on Christine O’Donnell who is a conservative? She's the republican nominee in Delaware. Some establishment conservatives like Karl Rove are saying she says a lot of nutty things, she has a checkered past an she's not a candidate that's going to win for us.

Bob Inglis: Well, I’m concerned because, you know, the things that I read, I don't know her personally. I hope it works out, and that some of these things that are reported don't turn out to be correct. But I think it's, again, very important that we be credible. And have candidates that don't - don't run in front of the flame throwers. That's a reference earlier we've got these hot microphones that want to charge up the fearful crowd and have them run toward the cliff. And if we get leaders saying you don't know the half of it ...

John Roberts: Now, candidates like Christine O’Donnell hold the position that the Republican Party over the last decade has gotten way off track. And they're just trying to put it back on track.

Bob Inglis: Yeah. Well, I think that we surely did get off track in the years that we had the majority. And we didn't balance the budget. That's for sure. That's correct. But here's the thing, there's a structural deficit. It's Medicare, Medicaid, social security. At 60 percent of what we spend now rising to 90 percent in 2050, that's a structural challenge.

That's where America needs a solution. We don't need scapegoats, don't need to blame that on the president. It's not his fault. In fact, he's just been president for two years. This thing's been decades in coming. I've got enemies, Al Qaeda, Taliban, they're not the democrats, they're my country men. They're often wrong, but we can have a debate about how to get that done. We happen to believe as conservatives it's free enterprise that's going to fix that and reliance on family." From CNN (http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/09/21/inglis-on-losing-to-tea-party-where-gop-went-wrong/)



Sad that these are the kinds of "attitudes" that are actively being driven out of the Republican Party by these Tea Party ass-hats.

[Deckard]

I probably disagree with Inglis on a whole range of things, but it's nice to read a little sanity for a change.

Those are the attitudes that I hope will be contagious.

[Deckard]

Police in Gateshead have arrested six people on suspicion of inciting racial hatred after a video appearing to show Qur'ans being burned appeared on the internet. Officers from Northumbria police detained two men on 15 September and four more yesterday, a force spokesman said. All six have been bailed pending further inquiries.

"The arrests followed the burning of what are believed to have been two Qur'ans in Gateshead on 11 September," the spokesman said. "The incident was recorded and a video placed on the internet."

In a video posted on YouTube, six young men in hooded tops and scarves can be seen pouring petrol on a book and setting it alight, before burning another. On the video, which appeared to have been filmed behind a pub, they cheer as the first book bursts into flames. Northumbria police said the men were not arrested for watching or distributing the video, but on suspicion of burning the Qur'an.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/23/six-arrested-alleged-quran-burning

Well, after criticizing the Pastor for his plan to burn the Qur'an, I suppose I should weigh in on this. It's one thing to oppose the burning of holy books. Surely it's quite another to make it illegal?

Would I be breaking the law if I went out into my garden and burnt a Bible or Qur'an and posted the video on YouTube? Surely there needs to be more than that to be "inciting racial hatred"? Maybe the police did take other things into account.

Either way, the anti-Muslim/anti-PC brigade will just lap this up. :rolleyes:

[Sean]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/23/six-arrested-alleged-quran-burning

Well, after criticizing the Pastor for his plan to burn the Qur'an, I suppose I should weigh in on this. It's one thing to oppose the burning of holy books. Surely it's quite another to make it illegal?

Would I be breaking the law if I went out into my garden and burnt a Bible or Qur'an and posted the video on YouTube? Surely there needs to be more than that to be "inciting racial hatred"? Maybe the police did take other things into account.

Either way, the anti-Muslim/anti-PC brigade will just lap this up. :rolleyes:I suppose there could be fire regulation laws regarding burning them in a public alleyway as opposed to on private property, but no, as stupid as book-burnings tend to be, I would agree that there's no need to make just being stupid illegal.

[Sean]

Palin's new website (http://www.takebackthe20.com/) is going live, and in it, she apparently attempts to rile up the morons of the country with "death panels" yet again. From CNN:


"In the announcement (http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=433315368434)on her Facebook page, entitled 'Lies, Damned Lies – Obamacare 6 Months Later,' the former GOP vice presidential nominee resurrects her claims that 'rationing "death panels"' are included in the health care bill and promotes the new site, which endorses candidates who support the bill's repeal.

Palin is unspecific as to what section of the final bill she refers to as creating 'death panels,' but does link to her original Facebook post which sparked (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/08/08/palin-obama%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%98death-panel%E2%80%99-would-decide-trig%E2%80%99s-care/)a storm of controversy in 2009. In the post, she stated that the health care bill would create 'death panels' that would decide whether people "are worthy of health care."


She should title all her Facebook entries, Tweets, books, etc "Lies, Damned Lies".

[Deckard]

Palin is unspecific as to what section of the final bill she refers to as creating 'death panels,' but does link to her original Facebook post which sparked a storm of controversy in 2009. In the post, she stated that the health care bill would create 'death panels' that would decide whether people "are worthy of health care."

Woe betide she ever gets specific about anything!

Btw, new forum rule: whenever we quote anything by Palin, we use comic sans. ;)

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

I've been waiting for all the right words to fall into place to make this comment, but there's just such a web of words, comments and cacaphony to make a coherent logical path of ideas it's become a bit impossible to make it come across sensible . . .

Anyways, here goes:

Shouldn't denial of coverage be viewed as a "death panel" of a different form???

[//\/\/]

Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee

"well, sarah palin may be saying that, but i'm not leaving a paper-trail..." :rolleyes: