UK Election

[Sean]

So it sounds like you folks have quite a tight race going on over there. I'm ashamed to admit that I've heard very little about it what with all of our oil spills, flooding, attempted terrorist attacks, etc going on over here. So who's who and what's what? Who do you like?

[Deckard]

Huge queues of voters being turned away unable to vote all over the country - running out of ballot papers, electoral officials misunderstanding the rules about when to turn people away, people turning up and finding the registration lists are out of date and don't include them.... all pretty damning stuff. Expect legal challenges in the days ahead.

And to think we observe other countrys' elections. :rolleyes:

Overall the campaign has been an exciting one, with no clear winner, even now. Most extraordinary - and welcome - was the surge of the third party, the Liberal Democrats, who - thanks to their leader Nick Clegg being included in the first ever televised leaders debates in this country - turned what was a two-horse race into a three-horse one. At one point they polled first position.

However, exit polls conducted a little while ago tonight seem to suggest their success may have evaporated, and if anything, they may even end up with a lower number of seats than they achieved in 2005. It'll be hugely disappointing if that's the case, not least because they have been pushing for a system of proportional representation. (I should think the financial turmoil playing out in Greece and threatening the rest of Europe has played no small part in an apparent drop in support, as the Libs are known to be enthusiastic about ditching the pound and joining the Euro.

A poor performance by their leader in the third debate also didn't help.

As things stand, it looks like we're going to get our first hung Parliament since 1974. Impossible to predict whether the Liberals will join with Labour and govern as a majority, or if the Conservatives will scrap together support from the Ulster Unionists and lead the country. Or the Tories might yet still win outright. Either way, Gordon Brown will almost certainly not be PM in a couple of days time, and David Cameron will not achieve a resounding majority in a Conservative government.

EDIT: arse....scrap that last statement - seems the Conservatives are starting to come in strong...

[Deckard]

'Morning After' update for non-UK readers:

The Conservatives (led by David Cameron) have the largest number of votes and seats, but have - so far- fallen short of a full majority.

Labour's vote held up a lot better than expected, so there's still a possibility they could enter a coalition with the Liberal Democrats, forming a progressive majority. Reform of our first-past-the-post electoral system would be a pre-requisite to such a union. And ditching Gordon Brown as leader may be another price to pay.

The Liberal Democrats led by Nick Clegg suffered an astonishing comedown from the 'Cleggmania' of the first half of the campaign, ending up with fewer votes than 2005. But Clegg could yet be the man who holds the balance of power, as the other two parties will be eager to use the Lib Dems to gain their majority.

And we still don't currently know who is going to be our next prime minister.

[BeautifulBurnout]

Decks

I thought the LibDems got a 1% increase of the proportion of the vote but lost 4 seats?

Anyhoo, I had two "Portillo" moments during the night: Jacqui Smith losing her seat and Griffin getting his arse well and truly kicked out of sight in Barking.

Hopefully that will be the last we hear from the BNP numpties in a while....:)

[Deckard]

Decks

I thought the LibDems got a 1% increase of the proportion of the vote but lost 4 seats?

Anyhoo, I had two "Portillo" moments during the night: Jacqui Smith losing her seat and Griffin getting his arse well and truly kicked out of sight in Barking.

Hopefully that will be the last we hear from the BNP numpties in a while....:)
You're absolutely right, I'm getting votes and seats mixed up. Net loss of 5: 13 losses, 8 gains. Still hugely disappointing, and Clegg is now in an almost impossible situation as kingmaker. Whatever decision he makes, there will be howls of protest. I don't envy him and his negotiating team.

I'm with you on the portillo moment for the Nazi bastards. Also losing all 12 London council seats was rather nice to hear.

Wonder how long Brown will cling on then?

[bryantm3]

i'm sorry to say i don't see the huge difference between the labour and conservative parties— they both seem pretty pro-government waste and pro-"patriot-act" style stuff in the UK. it seems to me that the liberal democrats are the only party that's really any different, and they seem to hold a more libertarian viewpoint, at least on social issues. anyone care to explain some key differences between the parties? (i'm a US citizen).

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

i'm sorry to say i don't see the huge difference between the labour and conservative parties— they both seem pretty pro-government waste and pro-"patriot-act" style stuff in the UK. it seems to me that the liberal democrats are the only party that's really any different, and they seem to hold a more libertarian viewpoint, at least on social issues. anyone care to explain some key differences between the parties? (i'm a US citizen).

Thank you.


I'm torn, I like older men. hmm, Brown? That new younger guy looks like one hella f. buddy too though. It's all about what "looks" good, remember?

[Deckard]

Bryant - you're largely right. Although ideologically very distant, there's not nearly as much difference in practice between 'New Labour' and the Conservatives as there is between either of them and the Lib Dems. (Old Labour would have been a different matter.)

A few that spring to mind though...

On the economy - specifically, on dealing with the deficit - Labour want to increase public spending over the coming year because they believe it's important to "sustain the recovery" before beginning cuts the year after. Conservatives say tackling the deficit is more urgent and needs to be done right away. I suppose that reflects a classic economic division.

On immigration, there's not nearly as much between these two parties as their respective rhetoric would suggest. The Conservatives are more keen on imposing a cap, and bringing it down to 1990s levels, but that's about it. They talk tougher but they're a looong way from Arizona! And countless Labour Home Secretaries have gone out of their way to out-toughtalk the Conservatives.

Probably civil liberties is a key issue that separates Labour and Tory significantly. The Conservatives, to their credit (IMO) want to scrap the proposed ID cards system, which Labour have pressed for. However the Tories also want to repeal the Human Rights Act. I might be won around to that idea if I knew more about what they propose for the British equivalent.

The Conservatives may be - in some respects - slightly to the left of your Democrats. They have been at pains to assure us about how committed they are to tackling environmental issues, global warming, gay rights, child poverty, and so on, even if details sometimes arise to make us question this.

Both parties are committed to the National Health Service. Both claim to be committed to the future of the (licence-fee funded) BBC - though personally I don't trust that in Conservative hands.

But you're right, the Lib Dems are the most radical (relatively speaking). For instance, they would put on hold expensive plans to renew our Trident nuclear deterrent, they propose a one-off amnesty on illegal immigrants, and they strongly favour joining the single European currency, though only when the time is right, and not before consulting the British people.

Can't think of anything else off the top of my head.

EDIT:
Oh yes, Iraq. Lib Dems were strongly opposed to it, while Tory and Labour were for strongly for it.
Also electoral reform. Tories want to stick to FPTP that favour big parties. Labour were the same for ages, but are having something of a deathbed conversion. Lib Dem have always favoured PR.

Some more here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/parties_and_issues/default.stm

[Deckard]

That new younger guy looks like one hella f. buddy too though.
I think my o/h has a crush on him. ;)

[bryantm3]

Bryant - you're largely right. Although ideologically very distant, there's not nearly as much difference in practice between 'New Labour' and the Conservatives as there is between either of them and the Lib Dems. (Old Labour would have been a different matter.)

A few that spring to mind though...

On the economy - specifically, on dealing with the deficit - Labour want to increase public spending over the coming year because they believe it's important to "sustain the recovery" before beginning cuts the year after. Conservatives say tackling the deficit is more urgent and needs to be done right away. I suppose that reflects a classic economic division.

On immigration, there's not nearly as much between these two parties as their respective rhetoric would suggest. The Conservatives are more keen on imposing a cap, and bringing it down to 1990s levels, but that's about it. They talk tougher but they're a looong way from Arizona! And countless Labour Home Secretaries have gone out of their way to out-toughtalk the Conservatives.

Probably civil liberties is a key issue that separates Labour and Tory significantly. The Conservatives, to their credit (IMO) want to scrap the proposed ID cards system, which Labour have pressed for. However the Tories also want to repeal the Human Rights Act. I might be won around to that idea if I knew more about what they propose for the British equivalent.

The Conservatives may be - in some respects - slightly to the left of your Democrats. They have been at pains to assure us about how committed they are to tackling environmental issues, global warming, gay rights, child poverty, and so on, even if details sometimes arise to make us question this.

Both parties are committed to the National Health Service. Both claim to be committed to the future of the (licence-fee funded) BBC - though personally I don't trust that in Conservative hands.

But you're right, the Lib Dems are the most radical (relatively speaking). For instance, they would put on hold expensive plans to renew our Trident nuclear deterrent, they propose a one-off amnesty on illegal immigrants, and they strongly favour joining the single European currency, though only when the time is right, and not before consulting the British people.

Can't think of anything else off the top of my head.

EDIT:
Oh yes, Iraq. Lib Dems were strongly opposed to it, while Tory and Labour were for strongly for it.
Also electoral reform. Tories want to stick to FPTP that favour big parties. Labour were the same for ages, but are having something of a deathbed conversion. Lib Dem have always favoured PR.

Some more here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/parties_and_issues/default.stm
sounds like someone needs to start a new party over there! maybe i'm just being an ignorant american, but it seems like we have a much broader variety of political parties over here, that cover a broader spectrum of political ideologies.

[Deckard]

sounds like someone needs to start a new party over there! maybe i'm just being an ignorant american, but it seems like we have a much broader variety of political parties over here, that cover a broader spectrum of political ideologies.
Oh I don't know. We have other fairy well-known parties with very different ideologies - it's just that not many people want to vote for them, and consequently they're not viewed as part of our "big three". I'll certainly agree that our two biggest parties have become similar, both vying for the centre ground - the Tories are centre right, Labour are centre left (though die-hards of both sides will dispute the terms left and right there!), and personally I happen to like that. Perhaps Americans would see them as even more similar than we do, because to you they both appear left wing, whereas to (many of) us they at least straddle that left/right boundary. It's just that our boundary is to the left of yours. Similarly, people here often look at US politicians from your two big parties and remark on how they're both so far to the right economically that there's little choice.

If you want British parties with ideologies further to the right (and yes I realise these left/right analogies are clumsy and often inadequate), there's UKIP, the BNP and the English Democrats. It's just that the country is generally not that far to the right so they rarely get anywhere (though UKIP did surprisingly well in the European elections a while back). On the far left we have the Trade Unionist parties, Respect, the Social and Democratic Labour Party, and others. We also have the Greens who gained their first Parliamentary seat yesterday in Brighton. And other much smaller parties like the Christian ones. For those of us who live in Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland, we have those plus our own: Plaid Cymru, the Scottish National Party and [Sinn Fein, DUP and others] respectively, all of which are big political forces. And the political ideologies between all these differ quite markedly.

Finally, while our current political system isn't set up to fairly represent smaller parties, around 25% of the country choose Liberal Democrat in each election, and as I mentioned, their policies are definitely more "out there" than the Tories or Labour. Understandably the Lib Dems want to change the first past the post system.

So maybe I'm wrong but I'd say, if anything, we might have a broader spectrum of political ideologies than you guys.

No teabaggers or birthers yet though. ;)

[stimpee]

Try this page:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/election_2010/parties_and_issues/default.stm

[//\/\/]

deckard - you forgot the best party of all - the monster raving loony party (http://www.omrlp.com/) :D

[Deckard]

Haha, they are class!

Choice snippets from their manifesto:

1) To combat global warming and climate change all buildings should be fitted with air conditioning units on the outside.

28) It is proposed that we change the English symbol of three lions to 3 badgers. How often do you see lions running round the countryside, we should be proud of the lack of wild and interesting species on our fair isle.

40) School will be dismissed if three or more pigeons make it into the central corridor.

80) It is proposed that we should get rid of three colour traffic lights, and replace it with a much larger spectrum.

4) To help the Israel/Palestine problems, we should get rid of the old fashioned road map, and give them a sat nav instead.

20) Semicolons should be banned;

etc etc

[Deckard]

Well, there we go.

Conservative David Camera-on is our new PM in our first coalition government since WWII.

We should take comfort from the fact that:


the Conservatives were denied their outright majority (haha! Take that, scum-sucking Tory press!)
Labour weren't obliterated as many predicted they would be. Under a new leader they have every chance of coming back stronger
We can look forward to fixed 4-year Parliaments
Lib Dems have (apparently) been given cabinet posts
We have been promised a referendum on electoral reform - AV is a start, and people are more likely to vote for that than full PR.
By the sound of it, Lib Dems have managed to bag some key concessions on tax and education


And if all that fails to convince, we can take solace in the words of the Bank of England governor, that the budgetary measures necessary to deal with the deficit will end up keeping the governing party "out of power for a whole generation".

We live in hope...

EDIT: Oh no's.... George 'Gideon' Osborne is confirmed as Chancellor?!!! Fuck that shit!
I'm off to get drunk...

[Deckard]

I should elaborate on that last point.

http://i42.tinypic.com/1g39rb.jpg

It shouldda been Vince.

[stimpee]

Osborne is what scares me about this new govt. Clueless is an understatement.

[Sean]

Thanks for all the updates. They've definitely been helping me make sense of it all.

[Rog]

i feel sick..................

[Deckard]

Correction: it's fixed 5-year Parliaments, not 4 year. The next election will be 2015. (Sorry Rog!)

[//\/\/]

where the fuck did this extra year come from?!?!

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

I think my o/h has a crush on him. ;)


What the hell is an o/h? Really, I don't care, but do post any photos of this one at the beach you may come across. Thanks!

[Deckard]

where the fuck did this extra year come from?!?!
Gideon must have got his maths wrong. Expect it fell to teacher (Cable) to sort him out.

What the hell is an o/h?
Partner ("other half")

[stimpee]

5 year or 4 year it wont work if the coallition fails. you cant pass laws if you dont have a majority.

[//\/\/]

moving the goalposts already (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8681624.stm) to hang on in - fuck that democracy bollocks! :mad::mad::mad:

[BeautifulBurnout]

Loth as I am to say it, I have taken a shufty at the Coalition Programme (http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/media/409088/pfg_coalition.pdf) launched today and there is far less in there that disgusts me than I originally thought there would be when I was crying into my beer last Monday.

There are still quite a few aspects that I disagree with entirely, but I think the LibDems have succeeded in filing off some of the Tories' sharper edges in a lot of areas.

It may not be the utter disaster I was predicting. And certainly in the Civil Liberties area they are on the ball. Good to see that they want to replace the HRA with something that still incorporates the ECHR. Frankly, the HRA has done little to protect us from over-intrusive government, ridiculous laws, the dismantling of habeas corpus and local councils spying on your dustbins anyway...

[Deckard]

Loth as I am to say it, I have taken a shufty at the Coalition Programme (http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/media/409088/pfg_coalition.pdf) launched today and there is far less in there that disgusts me than I originally thought there would be when I was crying into my beer last Monday.
I was thinking exactly the same. Some very welcome measures (admittedly most coming from the Lib Dem influence, methinks). Fingers crossed for the AV referendum.

And if Cameron thought Blair had a tough time from his Labour backbenchers, he aint seen nuffink yet - his own lot will be wanting his head on a stick before the year's out!